402/1500sl power #s.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Aug 2022
Posts: 92
Likes: 8
402/1500sl power #s. Shop finally got my new engine and existing setup done and dynoed. However, power seems to be low compared to my old setup, which blew. My old setup on my 5th gen Camaro included LTs/Cam/ECS 1500sl blower/ e85/ ZL1 pump/ DSX aux pump on a manual trans. 1st shop on their junk tune made 700 on 93 and 750 on e85. Had the car retuned at a different well known shop and that made 800whp/636trq on e85 with 12/13 lbs of boost.
Now with the same car I had a fully built 402 put in with the same mods. This time the car only put down 700whp/597trq on e85. Revved it up to 7k rpm, and made 8/9 lbs of boost. (I know bigger engine lower boost/ more air to feed)
All dynos have been dynojets. I know dynos are used as tools, and will have variances. But looking and reading and comparing builds with similar parts, seems like it's in the low end.
I was told fuel system duty cycle was at 96% (not injectors) which doesn't sound right since the same fuel system can handle 800-830ish on e85.
What am I missing here?
Now with the same car I had a fully built 402 put in with the same mods. This time the car only put down 700whp/597trq on e85. Revved it up to 7k rpm, and made 8/9 lbs of boost. (I know bigger engine lower boost/ more air to feed)
All dynos have been dynojets. I know dynos are used as tools, and will have variances. But looking and reading and comparing builds with similar parts, seems like it's in the low end.
I was told fuel system duty cycle was at 96% (not injectors) which doesn't sound right since the same fuel system can handle 800-830ish on e85.
What am I missing here?
Last edited by MarshmallowMan; Mar 18, 2023 at 08:45 AM.
What injectors are you using. Compare fuel consumption if you can from previous logs. If it’s consuming more fuel at it’s making more power if it’s consuming less it’s making less. This is not an exact science but a good clue to if there is a problem. That’s a really small blower though for that many cubes.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Aug 2022
Posts: 92
Likes: 8
What injectors are you using. Compare fuel consumption if you can from previous logs. If it’s consuming more fuel at it’s making more power if it’s consuming less it’s making less. This is not an exact science but a good clue to if there is a problem. That’s a really small blower though for that many cubes.
Fi Clinic 1200cc. I don't have logs unfortunately. Will 26 Ci make that much of a a difference?
It’s a pretty significant difference. Almost like going from a 5.3 to a 6.0. You’re flowing more air and probably way out of that blowers efficiency range. If you pulley for more boost you would probably see very little gains because it would turn into a heat pump.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Aug 2022
Posts: 92
Likes: 8
With the pulley combo I have it's spinning the blower to 50,500 @ 7k RPMs (7.25/3.47).
here's some other builds with similar mods, but on pump and meth. 1500 unit though (Max rpm 55k and 950cfm), not the sl (52k/900cfm)
https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-induction/1493670-402-novi-1500-results.html
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c6-forced-induction-nitrous/3702994-how-much-hp-can-a-novi-sl-1500-can-handle.html
here's some other builds with similar mods, but on pump and meth. 1500 unit though (Max rpm 55k and 950cfm), not the sl (52k/900cfm)
https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-induction/1493670-402-novi-1500-results.html
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c6-forced-induction-nitrous/3702994-how-much-hp-can-a-novi-sl-1500-can-handle.html
Last edited by MarshmallowMan; Mar 18, 2023 at 11:47 AM.
Curious as to how your tuner determined that the fuel system was maxed out.
Usually that's reflected in the IDC but can also be a delivery problem to the injectors.
I added larger pumps and feed to my setup and dropped my IDC considerably.
Usually that's reflected in the IDC but can also be a delivery problem to the injectors.
I added larger pumps and feed to my setup and dropped my IDC considerably.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Aug 2022
Posts: 92
Likes: 8
Good question.. no clue. I've read that to only know if your fuel pumps are getting maxed is you see pressure drop on the rails with a mechanical gauge. Not too familiar with the whole tuning thing, that's why I pay people. I do my fair research of course, but I'm a novice at best.
this is what he sent me.
Hey its John this time as Jake went home for the day. We just Finished up on the dyno, earlier we were only seeing 8-9 lbs of boost but the brand new belt just needed a bit of an adjustment, and that netted us another 1-1/2 lbs of boost. Its not common to lose some boost going to the little bigger motor and a more efficient Camshaft, When jake first reached out to you it was only making 630-640 but ended up right at 700 on our dyno. (which yes it a bit of heartbreaker dyno) but as we tell every customer a dyno is just a tuning tool and to not be hung on numbers, especially with some of the astronomical numbers we have seen and been told by other shops in the area..
Regardless, were 700hp and 96% Duty Cycle (which is not the injectors now obviously but is the actual pump/supply of the system thats at its limits). Pressure drops/fluctuatues a bit after peak tq once it gets into some rpm/boost we i kept it on the safer side of timing as well.
Last but not least, your IAT's are climbing tremendously.. Ambient air being 68 Degrees in our shop (Car is reading 70-72 before the pull, and ending 119 Degrees by 7kRpm). So its also a large suggestion to get a better intercooler on this thing as HIGh IAT's and Timing (plus Running high duty cycle) is just asking for problems.
Therefore i would look into doing the Fuel Pump assembly, intercooler and then pulley down to get some more boost out of it for Future Mods. I cant remember but i believe when you and i spoke a while ago you had or were getting another blower for it (unless that was someone else at the time) but bumping up the Blower would just make everything overall more efficient.
Were gone for the day today, i would like to do one more cold startup and driveability log in the am before we release but everything for the most part went well and we can chat tomorrow once were in.
this is what he sent me.
Hey its John this time as Jake went home for the day. We just Finished up on the dyno, earlier we were only seeing 8-9 lbs of boost but the brand new belt just needed a bit of an adjustment, and that netted us another 1-1/2 lbs of boost. Its not common to lose some boost going to the little bigger motor and a more efficient Camshaft, When jake first reached out to you it was only making 630-640 but ended up right at 700 on our dyno. (which yes it a bit of heartbreaker dyno) but as we tell every customer a dyno is just a tuning tool and to not be hung on numbers, especially with some of the astronomical numbers we have seen and been told by other shops in the area..
Regardless, were 700hp and 96% Duty Cycle (which is not the injectors now obviously but is the actual pump/supply of the system thats at its limits). Pressure drops/fluctuatues a bit after peak tq once it gets into some rpm/boost we i kept it on the safer side of timing as well.
Last but not least, your IAT's are climbing tremendously.. Ambient air being 68 Degrees in our shop (Car is reading 70-72 before the pull, and ending 119 Degrees by 7kRpm). So its also a large suggestion to get a better intercooler on this thing as HIGh IAT's and Timing (plus Running high duty cycle) is just asking for problems.
Therefore i would look into doing the Fuel Pump assembly, intercooler and then pulley down to get some more boost out of it for Future Mods. I cant remember but i believe when you and i spoke a while ago you had or were getting another blower for it (unless that was someone else at the time) but bumping up the Blower would just make everything overall more efficient.
Were gone for the day today, i would like to do one more cold startup and driveability log in the am before we release but everything for the most part went well and we can chat tomorrow once were in.
Trending Topics
He must be figuring since the injectors are 1200cc and at 96% IDC that you aren't making the 1,000whp or more they can support, that you are out of pump.
I had the same situation with my car, with FIC 1000cc injectors my IDC was at 75-80% at 10 lbs. of boost on a 5.7 with a S484 so knowing that I wasn't making 1,000whp wheel at that boost level that I was out of supply.
New, larger pumps and a larger feed brought my IDC down considerably.
What is your fuel system setup?
Also, I'd log IAT's while moving and reassess, A2A IC's tend to heat soak on the dyno without really good ventilation, 119 degrees on E85 wouldn't concern me all to much either.
I had the same situation with my car, with FIC 1000cc injectors my IDC was at 75-80% at 10 lbs. of boost on a 5.7 with a S484 so knowing that I wasn't making 1,000whp wheel at that boost level that I was out of supply.
New, larger pumps and a larger feed brought my IDC down considerably.
What is your fuel system setup?
Also, I'd log IAT's while moving and reassess, A2A IC's tend to heat soak on the dyno without really good ventilation, 119 degrees on E85 wouldn't concern me all to much either.
LS1 Tech Stories
The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time
6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them
Pouria Savadkouei
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Pouria Savadkouei
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP
Verdad Gallardo
Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes
Verdad Gallardo
Awesome K5 Blazer Restomod Comes With C7 Corvette Power
Verdad Gallardo
10 Camaros You Should Never Buy
10 LS Engine Myths That Refuse to Die
Verdad Gallardo Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Aug 2022
Posts: 92
Likes: 8
He must be figuring since the injectors are 1200cc and at 96% IDC that you aren't making the 1,000whp or more they can support, that you are out of pump.
I had the same situation with my car, with FIC 1000cc injectors my IDC was at 75-80% at 10 lbs. of boost on a 5.7 with a S484 so knowing that I wasn't making 1,000whp wheel at that boost level that I was out of supply.
New, larger pumps and a larger feed brought my IDC down considerably.
What is your fuel system setup?
Also, I'd log IAT's while moving and reassess, A2A IC's tend to heat soak on the dyno without really good ventilation, 119 degrees on E85 wouldn't concern me all to much either.
I had the same situation with my car, with FIC 1000cc injectors my IDC was at 75-80% at 10 lbs. of boost on a 5.7 with a S484 so knowing that I wasn't making 1,000whp wheel at that boost level that I was out of supply.
New, larger pumps and a larger feed brought my IDC down considerably.
What is your fuel system setup?
Also, I'd log IAT's while moving and reassess, A2A IC's tend to heat soak on the dyno without really good ventilation, 119 degrees on E85 wouldn't concern me all to much either.
I have zl1 pump, and dsx aux pump (255lph walbro). With those 2 pumps and tuning the stock fcpm, that can support 800-850whp, maybe more.
Your feed from the pumps should be -08an at minimum on E85 if not -10an.
Have you checked your filters yet?
Checked power and grounds?
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Aug 2022
Posts: 92
Likes: 8
Looks like the ZL1 pump is rated at 250lph and you have an extra 255 but on E85 I don't think those would be enough plus you have to consider volume in regards to the feed line.
Your feed from the pumps should be -08an at minimum on E85 if not -10an.
Have you checked your filters yet?
Checked power and grounds?
Your feed from the pumps should be -08an at minimum on E85 if not -10an.
Have you checked your filters yet?
Checked power and grounds?
with the zl1 pump and FPCM tune alone nets 550-600.
Dyno session #3 was not with the shop that did dyno session #2?
Also your intercooler situation.
70-72 before the pull, and ending 119 Degrees
I think that's okay for now. I would leave it alone.
I think for the fuel pump situation, don't folks sell dual drop in setups?
Also your intercooler situation.
70-72 before the pull, and ending 119 Degrees
I think that's okay for now. I would leave it alone.
I think for the fuel pump situation, don't folks sell dual drop in setups?
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Aug 2022
Posts: 92
Likes: 8
Dyno session #3 was not with the shop that did dyno session #2?
Also your intercooler situation.
70-72 before the pull, and ending 119 Degrees
I think that's okay for now. I would leave it alone.
I think for the fuel pump situation, don't folks sell dual drop in setups?
Also your intercooler situation.
70-72 before the pull, and ending 119 Degrees
I think that's okay for now. I would leave it alone.
I think for the fuel pump situation, don't folks sell dual drop in setups?
2nd shop, waaaaaaay better. Made the car run like butter. Tune was good, smoothed out everything. Then my engine blew.
3rd shop put in the new engine and is doing the tune.
I've looked into doing a drop in, but for the blower I have/the power goal I wanted I have the fuel system works fine with it. Not looking to crack 1000whp just yet.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Aug 2022
Posts: 92
Likes: 8
Took the car home finally... she f-ing RIPS. Feels just as fast if not faster than before. No hot starts, idle is smooth. Just need a good detail, and need to find a way to get rid of the smell of oil in the cabin.
Overall happy.
Question: oil pressure is hovering around 60, and pegging 69/70psi. I haven't really looked at that part of the instrument cluster, but is it normal? Also, stick with 5w30 synthetic, or change it up?
Overall happy.
Question: oil pressure is hovering around 60, and pegging 69/70psi. I haven't really looked at that part of the instrument cluster, but is it normal? Also, stick with 5w30 synthetic, or change it up?