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So looking at my last log, timing is as follows:
3,800 rpm - 29.2 degrees
4,000 rpm - 25.4 degrees
4,200 rpm - 20.6 degrees
4,400 rpm - 18.1 degrees
4,600 rpm - 15.5 degrees
4,800 rpm - 13.3 degrees
5,000 rpm - 12.0 degrees
Thinking I need to soften it up in the 3,800 - 4,400 rpm range.
i just mean the normal traces over time, not a table or histogram. its just how i can relate to the data more clearly. the histogram would be helpful along side it though.
i just mean the normal traces over time, not a table or histogram. its just how i can relate to the data more clearly. the histogram would be helpful along side it though.
Look at the VE table and the DC logs. Where they peak is usually your peak TQ area. Thats the area you want to dumb down timing wise a couple degrees. Really need a clean set of plugs in there. One big pass and then pull them. It will tell you alot. You can then add a couple percent fuel to the lean looking cyls and pull timing in the areas that peak as mentioned above.
Look at the VE table and the DC logs. Where they peak is usually your peak TQ area. Thats the area you want to dumb down timing wise a couple degrees. Really need a clean set of plugs in there. One big pass and then pull them. It will tell you alot. You can then add a couple percent fuel to the lean looking cyls and pull timing in the areas that peak as mentioned above.
I'm gonna buy a couple sets of plugs and start planning, problem is finding a suitable area to make a pull with a shutdown spot.
I may just head back out to my buddy's place and do it there if I can't find a place.
I don't know what I'd be looking for on the VE table but DC tops out way up in the rpm range, like 7,400 rpm in first, 7,000 rpm in second and 6,400 in third only ran it out to 6,500 rpm in third though.
I'm gonna buy a couple sets of plugs and start planning, problem is finding a suitable area to make a pull with a shutdown spot.
I may just head back out to my buddy's place and do it there if I can't find a place.
I don't know what I'd be looking for on the VE table but DC tops out way up in the rpm range, like 7,400 rpm in first, 7,000 rpm in second and 6,400 in third only ran it out to 6,500 rpm in third though.
if your tune is tight you will see ve peak at peak torque and taper back down at higher rpm. You will see this in ipw if boost is flat across that range.
if your tune is tight you will see ve peak at peak torque and taper back down at higher rpm. You will see this in ipw if boost is flat across that range.
So if I understand what your saying then mine is between 5,550 and 6,500 rpm?
Attached is a snip of my VE table.
My injector pulse width is as follows in third gear.
B1 - 12.9ms @ 5,900 rpm, levels out to 14.0ms at 6,000 rpm, then at 6,100 rpm jumps around a little bit between 13.2ms and 14.2ms until 6,400 rpm when I lift.
B2 - 12.7ms @ 5,900 rpm, levels out to 14.2ms at 6,000 rpm and hovers there until 6,300 rpm then drops down to 13.4 at 6,400 just before letting off the throttle.
Last edited by Black_Sunshine_99; Jul 24, 2023 at 09:53 PM.
164 kpa is just over 9psi at 12 degrees I’d say is very conservative, though that’s partially a guess since I have only used 93.
I generally don’t start pulling timing until 5-6psi which is right where you’re at.
you said you were at 16 wanting to go to 20?
also what are your cam specs? That’s going to be a major determining factor of where your peak tq is. Assuming that ve table is well developed you’re at 5500-6000.
getting on the dyno or even finding similar combos that have dyno graphs can help you get a little better estimation, but be careful doing that.
164 kpa is just over 9psi at 12 degrees I’d say is very conservative, though that’s partially a guess since I have only used 93.
I generally don’t start pulling timing until 5-6psi which is right where you’re at.
you said you were at 16 wanting to go to 20?
also what are your cam specs? That’s going to be a major determining factor of where your peak tq is. Assuming that ve table is well developed you’re at 5500-6000.
getting on the dyno or even finding similar combos that have dyno graphs can help you get a little better estimation but be careful doing that.
Well and to be fair to Pat, I said I only wanted to run a max of 16 lbs. on pump gas and that while the engine has forged pistons/rods to go ahead and treat it like an SBE in the name of longevity.
It was doing so well I just got greedy and wanted more lol.
The timing table has remained largely unchanged from when we first started, I was getting some knock in the low to mid-range during tip in (I think) but up top its pretty much unchanged and I assume that's do to his experience level.
If I can stop where I'm at or at 16 lbs. as planned, I'll be good for now as I'd like to just enjoy the car for the summer until I get the WMI kit up and running next season.
Here's the cam card, it's Brute Speeds FI cam which Bob had said is good to about 6,600 rpm but its very happy being shifted at 7,000+rpm.
Any reason you have to wait until next season to get the WMI going? It won't take but a couple hours to install if you build it like has been suggested. And if you set the boost switch for it to turn on high enough you shouldn't notice a bog or need to retune for it.
Any reason you have to wait until next season to get the WMI going? It won't take but a couple hours to install if you build it like has been suggested. And if you set the boost switch for it to turn on high enough you shouldn't notice a bog or need to retune for it.
If I get it soon enough maybe, I just got promoted at work which involves me moving to another state (thank God) so most of my time will be focused on getting my house ready to sell.
My buddy has to come back from his camping trip and box up the WMI parts to ship it to me, then I just need to get a pump and the driver for the Cortex to control it.
Trying to decide between the pump @Forcefed86 suggested or one of AlkyControls pumps, leaning towards the latter.
He bought everything rated for pure methanol so that's great news as well.
Thank you sir!
Can't wait to get the hell out of Washington State.
That's why I was just looking to pull timing to keep the car on the road since I'm gonna have little time to with working on the house because there is lots to do lol.
With forged rods you don’t have to be as conservative with timing at peak torque. That’s usually a ‘keep the stock rods straight’ thing.
if the cam is supposed to peak at 6600 rpm I wouldn’t expect peak torque to be 5500+ I’d expect it to be closer to 46-48.
The numbers you posted before though was 9.5psi nowhere near the 16 or 20 you are asking about.
if you are trying to get there, suggest you add 1-2 psi at a time to creep up on the fuel and timing. Your timing now seems pretty safe already. I’ve always done the ‘14 at 14’ rule and don’t start pulling timing from na numbers til 5-6 psi.
With forged rods you don’t have to be as conservative with timing at peak torque. That’s usually a ‘keep the stock rods straight’ thing.
if the cam is supposed to peak at 6600 rpm I wouldn’t expect peak torque to be 5500+ I’d expect it to be closer to 46-48.
The numbers you posted before though was 9.5psi nowhere near the 16 or 20 you are asking about.
if you are trying to get there, suggest you add 1-2 psi at a time to creep up on the fuel and timing. Your timing now seems pretty safe already. I’ve always done the ‘14 at 14’ rule and don’t start pulling timing from na numbers til 5-6 psi.
Once it reaches 5,000 rpm the timing flat lines at 12-12.5 degrees all the way up to 15.5ish lbs. and redline.
So I'm well past peak torque shifting at 7,000 rpm, its only dropping back into the 5,800 rpm range, a lot of guys have said this is actually a pretty small turbo cam but it has a nice lopey idle which I like.
That's basically what Pat and I have been doing the last few months, I make a pull and add a few pounds, send him the log, he adjusts and we repeat.
He hasn't changed the timing at all in the last six tunes, its all been VE so I gotta assume he's done enough of these that he knows where it should be to be safe.
Posted is the last data log if anyone is interested.
You've got some good advice here so far- I'll add my .02.
Use the Larry Meaux (Wallace Racing) plug reading method- I've used Larry's for 30 years and it never fails, regardless of fuel (if I'm sorting a new / uncharted combo I ALWAYS use new plugs, as do most folks I know).
I've got my old WMI system laying around (it needs a tank, and you'd have to upsize the pills), and it works last I checked. You're welcome to it- pay shipping.
When you get here, don't buy into the hype about "e85 loves timing!". Read the plugs, save the rod bearings.
Welcome to almost-the-South! There are rules. I'll share a few:
1) The standard response to how we like it: it sucks. The heat/humidity are terrible and half the folks are inbred.
2) We're mostly unedumacated. The real smart ones are the transplants. Thank goodness for them.
3) Go armed or go back. Not because you need it (last I checked IL had more violent crime than anywhere here)....just because if you tell someone you don't carry, they'll think you're, um..a sissy.
You've got some good advice here so far- I'll add my .02.
Use the Larry Meaux (Wallace Racing) plug reading method- I've used Larry's for 30 years and it never fails, regardless of fuel (if I'm sorting a new / uncharted combo I ALWAYS use new plugs, as do most folks I know).
I've got my old WMI system laying around (it needs a tank, and you'd have to upsize the pills), and it works last I checked. You're welcome to it- pay shipping.
When you get here, don't buy into the hype about "e85 loves timing!". Read the plugs, save the rod bearings.
Welcome to almost-the-South! There are rules. I'll share a few:
1) The standard response to how we like it: it sucks. The heat/humidity are terrible and half the folks are inbred.
2) We're mostly unedumacated. The real smart ones are the transplants. Thank goodness for them.
3) Go armed or go back. Not because you need it (last I checked IL had more violent crime than anywhere here)....just because if you tell someone you don't carry, they'll think you're, um..a sissy.
Looking after you, brother
I spoke to Pat my tuner and due to time constraints; I've elected to air on the side of caution and turn the boost down to 14 lbs.
I also picked up two sets of BR7EF plugs so I want to get the boost down in the 14 lb. range and get some good reads on fresh plugs.
Based on the overwhelming feedback that I'm already asking a lot of just pump gas, I'd rather turn it down a little and get some good reads than risk damaging the engine getting greedy before moving.
Plus, if I get lucky, I may have an E85 station close to home which would be perfect so risking damage pushing just pump gas just isn't smart.
If my WMI kit deal with my buddy falls through I will definitely keep your offer in mind so thank you very much for that!
As for living in the south, I've already had a couple locals fill me on some of the local customs and I'm very confident that I'll fit right in lol.
The heat and humidity will take some getting used to but I'm looking forward to the other 8 months of the year that are more akin to where I'm coming from versus 3-4 months of semi-sun and 8-9 months of straight rain.
Last edited by Black_Sunshine_99; Aug 2, 2023 at 09:48 AM.
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There are rules. I'll share a few: