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Please note the DeltaPAG $469 price tag includes a digital temp/speed controller, dual 70amp panasonic waterproof relay/fuse module, sensor & 3ft waterproof wire harness and the fan & ECM. It's really an amazing deal considering what you're getting. Also, you only need one controller to operate multiple fans so the second fan would be $100 cheaper. Yeah, brushless fans and variable speed is like french fries and ketchup... there's no point of one without the other.
I've always wanted delta pag fans, but I can't afford $900 for two fans and a controller..... I just don't have money like that. I wish I did. I the proforms because they were much more affordable option for me. I do wish I could afford the DP's though, the quality looks second to none!
I've always wanted delta pag fans, but I can't afford $900 for two fans and a controller..... I just don't have money like that. I wish I did. I the proforms because they were much more affordable option for me. I do wish I could afford the DP's though, the quality looks second to none!
Well, I guess I understand that. My dad always said "doing it cheap always costs more"
You can't do cheap brushless, it just won't work infront of a 200deg radiator. might as well buy a $50 fan on amazon and call it a day.
Well, I guess I understand that. My dad always said "doing it cheap always costs more"
You can't do cheap brushless, it just won't work infront of a 200deg radiator. might as well buy a $50 fan on amazon and call it a day.
I agree. I’m always teaching myself “cheapout” lessons, that I never learn. But my choice is, try these proforms and if they work, I can drive my car in the summer months or
sell the car
or stay driving it in the cooler months. Which I don’t want to do. The factory fans just ain’t cutting it. So I had to do something. Unfortunately that something was cheap out. I got a $15k pay cut at work and everything is more costly. So it’s even harder for me to maintain having this car. I just can’t seem to part with it yet. Supposedly a fix for the temp cutoff is already been implemented and replacements will be shipping in about two weeks.
Any update on the proform fans? I have some $100 dual SPAL knock offs from ebay that seem to be going decent on my LS swapped C3 vette. I do notice at idle the temps go up to 198*F and once I start moving literally even 15mph temps go down to 180's. The shroud is only 23.5" x15" or so and my core is 16.25" x 17" so I'm missing a 3" strip on the whole driver side thanks to the upper control arm only being 2.25" from the rad core. I can't run bigger dual fans as they will hit that so I'm stuck with the smaller duals or a large single and was thinking a 16" or 18". I would need a minimum of 3,000 cfm which SPAL tickles with the EXTREME, Proform 16" brushless is 3,400cfm and the Delta PAG is like 3,200ish. I currently run the flexalite variable speed controller which works well and is my go to except it doesn't work with brushless setups. At least with the proform I can let the Term X control a relay to send 12v to the green wire for 100% and have it control that way. So I'm in it $260 or so with a shroud, with the delta i'm looking at $500 with the controller. Would be great to run the 18" and get 4,100cfm but no way that will fit easily/good.
Any update on the proform fans? I have some $100 dual SPAL knock offs from ebay that seem to be going decent on my LS swapped C3 vette. I do notice at idle the temps go up to 198*F and once I start moving literally even 15mph temps go down to 180's. The shroud is only 23.5" x15" or so and my core is 16.25" x 17" so I'm missing a 3" strip on the whole driver side thanks to the upper control arm only being 2.25" from the rad core. I can't run bigger dual fans as they will hit that so I'm stuck with the smaller duals or a large single and was thinking a 16" or 18". I would need a minimum of 3,000 cfm which SPAL tickles with the EXTREME, Proform 16" brushless is 3,400cfm and the Delta PAG is like 3,200ish. I currently run the flexalite variable speed controller which works well and is my go to except it doesn't work with brushless setups. At least with the proform I can let the Term X control a relay to send 12v to the green wire for 100% and have it control that way. So I'm in it $260 or so with a shroud, with the delta i'm looking at $500 with the controller. Would be great to run the 18" and get 4,100cfm but no way that will fit easily/good.
I've currently got a flex a lite 16" fan that's good for 3000 cfm. They make them in both pusher and puller styles
Any update on the proform fans? I have some $100 dual SPAL knock offs from ebay that seem to be going decent on my LS swapped C3 vette. I do notice at idle the temps go up to 198*F and once I start moving literally even 15mph temps go down to 180's. The shroud is only 23.5" x15" or so and my core is 16.25" x 17" so I'm missing a 3" strip on the whole driver side thanks to the upper control arm only being 2.25" from the rad core. I can't run bigger dual fans as they will hit that so I'm stuck with the smaller duals or a large single and was thinking a 16" or 18". I would need a minimum of 3,000 cfm which SPAL tickles with the EXTREME, Proform 16" brushless is 3,400cfm and the Delta PAG is like 3,200ish. I currently run the flexalite variable speed controller which works well and is my go to except it doesn't work with brushless setups. At least with the proform I can let the Term X control a relay to send 12v to the green wire for 100% and have it control that way. So I'm in it $260 or so with a shroud, with the delta i'm looking at $500 with the controller. Would be great to run the 18" and get 4,100cfm but no way that will fit easily/good.
the release date on replacements keep getting pushed back. I really wanted to make these work but I think I’m gonna just do the delta pag and be done with it. I’m going to get a 16” to begin with (I can’t afford two at a time) and then get an elcheapo 12” for the smaller hole until I can afford a delta 12”. If you get a 16” delta, you can control the speed via pwm if your computer has it. I’d be willing to bet the delta flies as much or more than the 16” proform.
You might want to consider an electric water pump of some kind.
I have a Davies Craig setup on my current car with a big front mount T6 turbo and stood up cross flow radiator.
Temps never get higher than 200 degrees even when hot out but that's PNW hot, not Louisiana hot lol.
I think there's a couple other things you can do to bring temps into check.
You might want to consider an electric water pump of some kind.
I have a Davies Craig setup on my current car with a big front mount T6 turbo and stood up cross flow radiator.
Temps never get higher than 200 degrees even when hot out but that's PNW hot, not Louisiana hot lol.
I think there's a couple other things you can do to bring temps into check.
Lets see... I'll list what I've done so far:
Cold case aluminum radiator
4 port steam upgrade
less coolant concentration and some water wetter added
ditched the hood insulation that traps heat
removed the weather strip at the back of the hood, bent the lip on the cowl to alolow more air to escape
made spacers on the hood hinges to raise the back of the hood up a little ( you cant really tell looking at it)
Flowcooler high flow water pump
Every thing I did has made small changes. I just changed the pump last weekend, had the original 20 year old pump so i figured might as well upgrade for not much more money compared to a ac delco pump. Did it help? Yea I think so. It was really hot last weekend, 96F and humid, I rode around for a while, idled, drove low speed in parking lots, made several hits. Cut the car off and let heat soak...etc etc. The biggest problem I've had is if I cut the car off and it heat soaks, it doesnt want to cool back down quickly and usually at that point, it keeps creeping and will get to 217-220 and at that point I cut the ac off to help it cool down or get on the highway and eventually it'll cool. With the pump, I never saw over 207 and that was making a few hits back to back. It saw 205 after heat soak but temps came down quickly to the 190's. Temps never came down as quickly before, so i do feel like it was a worthwhile addition. Once I get the fans, I should be good. I'm glad I did the pump separate from the fans so I could see the effect of it.
Lets see... I'll list what I've done so far:
Cold case aluminum radiator
4 port steam upgrade
less coolant concentration and some water wetter added
ditched the hood insulation that traps heat
removed the weather strip at the back of the hood, bent the lip on the cowl to alolow more air to escape
made spacers on the hood hinges to raise the back of the hood up a little ( you cant really tell looking at it)
Flowcooler high flow water pump
Every thing I did has made small changes. I just changed the pump last weekend, had the original 20 year old pump so i figured might as well upgrade for not much more money compared to a ac delco pump. Did it help? Yea I think so. It was really hot last weekend, 96F and humid, I rode around for a while, idled, drove low speed in parking lots, made several hits. Cut the car off and let heat soak...etc etc. The biggest problem I've had is if I cut the car off and it heat soaks, it doesnt want to cool back down quickly and usually at that point, it keeps creeping and will get to 217-220 and at that point I cut the ac off to help it cool down or get on the highway and eventually it'll cool. With the pump, I never saw over 207 and that was making a few hits back to back. It saw 205 after heat soak but temps came down quickly to the 190's. Temps never came down as quickly before, so i do feel like it was a worthwhile addition. Once I get the fans, I should be good. I'm glad I did the pump separate from the fans so I could see the effect of it.
Goodness my friend, you've done it all lol.
I had the same scenario with my last car with AC, it would also run hot with the AC on which seems counterintuitive since you really need it when it's hot.
Honestly, I don't even drive my current car if its 80 degrees or hotter, the car just isn't happy, and neither am I in that sweat box of a cabin.
There's a guy on here who spaced his condenser out away from the radiator and had a pair of fans on the radiator and a pair on the condenser, not sure how it worked out but its an idea.
Perhaps you could look at repackaging your condenser so it's not sharing airflow with the radiator?
Put it flat down low or something?
220 isn't that bad really, iirc the high-speed fan in the 4th gen fbody wouldn't kick on until 230, it's just plain hot where you live lol.
I ditched my hood for the summer, and it made a huge difference both in coolant temps and inside the car.
Maybe a cowl hood to let some heat out?
Just spit balling here.
Goodness my friend, you've done it all lol.
I had the same scenario with my last car with AC, it would also run hot with the AC on which seems counterintuitive since you really need it when it's hot.
Honestly, I don't even drive my current car if its 80 degrees or hotter, the car just isn't happy, and neither am I in that sweat box of a cabin.
There's a guy on here who spaced his condenser out away from the radiator and had a pair of fans on the radiator and a pair on the condenser, not sure how it worked out but its an idea.
Perhaps you could look at repackaging your condenser so it's not sharing airflow with the radiator?
Put it flat down low or something?
220 isn't that bad really, iirc the high-speed fan in the 4th gen fbody wouldn't kick on until 230, it's just plain hot where you live lol.
I ditched my hood for the summer, and it made a huge difference both in coolant temps and inside the car.
Maybe a cowl hood to let some heat out?
Just spit balling here.
O ima get it whooped one way or another. The condenser spacing sounds like a damn good idea. Frankly that could be a huge part of the problem. I cut the ac off and it runs plenty cool. The condenser sits right up against my radiator, I bet spacing them would help. Im going to peek at that and see what I can do. I bet a pusher on the condenser would help the ac run cooler too.
problem when it runs 220 is the ac isn’t cooling worth a ****. I bet if I do the delta pay fans it’ll make a world of difference in the ac and coolant temp.
side note. I installed a Huron speed turbo kit on my son’s truck. While we were at it, I put the 34” radiator in along with electric fans vs the manual fan. The first thing he noticed was in the heat of the day, his ac worked far better. It stays running right at 196f no matter how hot it is outside.
Lets see... I'll list what I've done so far:
Cold case aluminum radiator
4 port steam upgrade
less coolant concentration and some water wetter added
ditched the hood insulation that traps heat
removed the weather strip at the back of the hood, bent the lip on the cowl to alolow more air to escape
made spacers on the hood hinges to raise the back of the hood up a little ( you cant really tell looking at it)
Flowcooler high flow water pump
Every thing I did has made small changes. I just changed the pump last weekend, had the original 20 year old pump so i figured might as well upgrade for not much more money compared to a ac delco pump. Did it help? Yea I think so. It was really hot last weekend, 96F and humid, I rode around for a while, idled, drove low speed in parking lots, made several hits. Cut the car off and let heat soak...etc etc. The biggest problem I've had is if I cut the car off and it heat soaks, it doesnt want to cool back down quickly and usually at that point, it keeps creeping and will get to 217-220 and at that point I cut the ac off to help it cool down or get on the highway and eventually it'll cool. With the pump, I never saw over 207 and that was making a few hits back to back. It saw 205 after heat soak but temps came down quickly to the 190's. Temps never came down as quickly before, so i do feel like it was a worthwhile addition. Once I get the fans, I should be good. I'm glad I did the pump separate from the fans so I could see the effect of it.
glad to hear the flowkooler pump helped! No issues with mine either. Only benefit I can see is an electric pump you can run while the engine is off and with fans running you can post cool the engine to help with hot starts. With the Flexalite variable speed controller the fans run for a full 30s on high on key off to precook the radiator to help with hot start so you have cooler fluid rushing into the motor on start up. I wonder if it’s possible to run an electric pump assist like a peirburg in the stock setup and keep it off while and have it only come on when you key off for 30s or so with fans. Idk if that’s possible or if the something even exists (perhaps with the pump off would be too much of a restriction). I know the peirburg OEM bumps for BMW can push some water as well as the Davis Craig. Might even be able to do something with a intercooler pump.
glad to hear the flowkooler pump helped! No issues with mine either. Only benefit I can see is an electric pump you can run while the engine is off and with fans running you can post cool the engine to help with hot starts. With the Flexalite variable speed controller the fans run for a full 30s on high on key off to precook the radiator to help with hot start so you have cooler fluid rushing into the motor on start up. I wonder if it’s possible to run an electric pump assist like a peirburg in the stock setup and keep it off while and have it only come on when you key off for 30s or so with fans. Idk if that’s possible or if the something even exists (perhaps with the pump off would be too much of a restriction). I know the peirburg OEM bumps for BMW can push some water as well as the Davis Craig. Might even be able to do something with a intercooler pump.
Careful relying on Flexalite's variable controllers. I was on my 3rd one in my old work truck before I gave up and wired the fans into the PCM. I got really lucky when one crapped out on me in Laredo, Texas in 114 degree heat and I made it almost 400 miles through Houston and into Vidor without hitting bad enough traffic to overheat from sitting still with no fans. My Dad has the truck now, and the Flexalite fans themselves are still working over 20 years later. Pretty sure I still have the last spare controller I used to carry with me since the Laredo incident.
Careful relying on Flexalite's variable controllers. I was on my 3rd one in my old work truck before I gave up and wired the fans into the PCM. I got really lucky when one crapped out on me in Laredo, Texas in 114 degree heat and I made it almost 400 miles through Houston and into Vidor without hitting bad enough traffic to overheat from sitting still with no fans. My Dad has the truck now, and the Flexalite fans themselves are still working over 20 years later. Pretty sure I still have the last spare controller I used to carry with me since the Laredo incident.
good to know. So far I haven’t had any issues with them and I run them on the firebird and the vette. 60 amps, soft start and variable speed is pretty sweet. Do you know what went on them? I know they use solid state replays and they are potted so no servicing. I have my term x used as overrides if something happens they kick on at like 220. I think I’m going to give the flexalite flex wave 238 fan a shot. 16” 3000-3199 CFM and only 18.5amps at $152. I looked back when I got my cheap spal knocks for $120 and I tested the fans and continuous they are 10amps each and 120w power for the motors each. The real spal and be cool versions say 2700-2799 CFM max so the flexalite flex wave gives me 300 more CFM and I’ll get a shroud that gives me 100% coverage.
good to know. So far I haven’t had any issues with them and I run them on the firebird and the vette. 60 amps, soft start and variable speed is pretty sweet. Do you know what went on them? I know they use solid state replays and they are potted so no servicing. I have my term x used as overrides if something happens they kick on at like 220. I think I’m going to give the flexalite flex wave 238 fan a shot. 16” 3000-3199 CFM and only 18.5amps at $152. I looked back when I got my cheap spal knocks for $120 and I tested the fans and continuous they are 10amps each and 120w power for the motors each. The real spal and be cool versions say 2700-2799 CFM max so the flexalite flex wave gives me 300 more CFM and I’ll get a shroud that gives me 100% coverage.
im interested in seeing how that 3000cfm does for you. I bought the wave 2660cfm 16” and it was noticeably far less airflow than my 12” proform rated for like 2100cfm.
what I noticed is the flex a lite flowed decent air until I put it on the radiator, then I cut the flow SIGNIFICANTLY. The proform of either size did not seem like they were affected. I had a mat sitting on the table inter the radiator, the proforms (either one) would suck the mat off the table and into the radiator. The flex a lite did not.
just observations. I was pretty disappointed with the flex. I sent it right back.
im interested in seeing how that 3000cfm does for you. I bought the wave 2660cfm 16” and it was noticeably far less airflow than my 12” proform rated for like 2100cfm.
what I noticed is the flex a lite flowed decent air until I put it on the radiator, then I cut the flow SIGNIFICANTLY. The proform of either size did not seem like they were affected. I had a mat sitting on the table inter the radiator, the proforms (either one) would suck the mat off the table and into the radiator. The flex a lite did not.
just observations. I was pretty disappointed with the flex. I sent it right back.
ugh great. I mean I can send back as well and get the proform if they ever fix the issue. Idk what the difference is between the one you had vs the higher rated one. I normally go by amps and figure 1 amp is 100cfm so for 3000cfm you’re looking at 30amps. The 16” spal extremes are 30amps but only 2500cfm. I don’t think I’m getting 2700cfm with my dual only pulling 10 amps on small 11” fans.
ugh great. I mean I can send back as well and get the proform if they ever fix the issue. Idk what the difference is between the one you had vs the higher rated one. I normally go by amps and figure 1 amp is 100cfm so for 3000cfm you’re looking at 30amps. The 16” spal extremes are 30amps but only 2500cfm. I don’t think I’m getting 2700cfm with my dual only pulling 10 amps on small 11” fans.
I don’t know the difference either. The one you are looking at has the same blades with the wrinkles but the overall thickness is less. And it’s rated for 300cfm more. Which probably wouldn’t be noticeable between the two side by side….but maybe I got a bad one or it’s over rated and the one you are looking at is correctly rated?
07-02-2024, 04:26 PM
