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Old Sep 18, 2024 | 09:29 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by moisbest42
I have sat and thought about this for several minutes now. What you said made a lot of pieces fall into place. When my car blew up it lifted a head, which torched the head and the deck. I suspected it was due to detonation because the ecu didn't pull any timing when the iat's rose quickly during a highway pull. My tuner told me right after he finished my car, before it blew up, that the iat sensor was slow. So now I'm wondering if it was bad/going bad when it lifted the head.
If you're going to replace the IAT (you should anyway if running a stock sensor) go with a RIFE IAT sensor.
Not sure I would be relying on the IAT sensor RIFE or not to pull timing to save my engine, kinda sounds like it was really spicy to begin with.
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Old Sep 18, 2024 | 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by moisbest42
Idle is at approx 16°
I'll have to check my logs but I'm pretty sure my timing at idle is in the 30+ degree range.
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Old Sep 18, 2024 | 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by The ******
If you're going to replace the IAT (you should anyway if running a stock sensor) go with a RIFE IAT sensor.
Not sure I would be relying on the IAT sensor RIFE or not to pull timing to save my engine, kinda sounds like it was really spicy to begin with.
I bought a rife to replace my slow sensor after my tuner told me about it, but he actually died not long after that so I haven't been able to get it installed
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Old Sep 18, 2024 | 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by The ******
I'll have to check my logs but I'm pretty sure my timing at idle is in the 30+ degree range.
16* was base timing, no advance
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Old Sep 18, 2024 | 02:05 PM
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My idle timing is a lot higher than that too @The ****** .
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Old Sep 18, 2024 | 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Pro Stock John
My idle timing is a lot higher than that too @The ****** .
I just looked and it bounces around between 30 and 34 degrees at idle.
My cam is pretty choppy too, idles around 850-900 rpm with an AFR of .95-.96 and about 11-12 inches of vacuum.
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Old Sep 18, 2024 | 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by moisbest42
I bought a rife to replace my slow sensor after my tuner told me about it, but he actually died not long after that so I haven't been able to get it installed
If you have HP Tuners, its simple to install.
Just install the sensor and then modify the IAT table with the values provided by RIFE.
Easy peasy.
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Old Sep 18, 2024 | 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by The ******
If you have HP Tuners, its simple to install.
Just install the sensor and then modify the IAT table with the values provided by RIFE.
Easy peasy.
I'm on an ms3pro
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Old Sep 18, 2024 | 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by moisbest42
16* was base timing, no advance
This comment makes me wonder if the 16* is what you actually saw in the logs, or just what you saw as the base spark in your tune. Definitely need to know what the log shows with it idling.
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Old Sep 19, 2024 | 03:10 AM
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Originally Posted by gametech
This comment makes me wonder if the 16* is what you actually saw in the logs, or just what you saw as the base spark in your tune. Definitely need to know what the log shows with it idling.
I said approximately 16° because it was bouncing around from high 15 to low 17. That was actually on the log not the tune.
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Old Sep 20, 2024 | 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by moisbest42
I said approximately 16° because it was bouncing around from high 15 to low 17. That was actually on the log not the tune.
That is low, but not nearly low enough to explain glowing headers. It is probably time to mark your damper and physically verify timing with a light. There have been 2 people on the HPT forums recently asking for tuning help, and it turned out the problem was reluctor wheels not aligned properly.
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Old Sep 20, 2024 | 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by gametech
That is low, but not nearly low enough to explain glowing headers. It is probably time to mark your damper and physically verify timing with a light. There have been 2 people on the HPT forums recently asking for tuning help, and it turned out the problem was reluctor wheels not aligned properly.
Hell, @Forcefed86 just went through this on his combo, it was really lazy and down on power, think he found it was the cam was way out even though he went dot to dot.
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Old Sep 24, 2024 | 11:29 AM
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I’ve done 5-6 ms3 setups and the timing was always in sync. IE if I mark the balancer at TDC with a piston stop and then check commanded timing vs actual timing it’s always been within 1* or so. My latest MS3 setup was 12* retarded. So I commanded say 14* at 25lbs. But the motor was at 2* of timing. That was my glowing header issue anyway.

Other setups I’ve found the crank keyway was retarded 8-9*. Which did no produce the glowing headers. But it produced low cranking compression and a huge drop in power. Once corrected I gained just under 12 mph at the same boost level.
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Old Sep 24, 2024 | 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Forcefed86
I’.

Other setups I’ve found the crank keyway was retarded 8-9*. .
.
l.
.
Was this a Stock GM crank, or aftermarket ?
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Old Sep 24, 2024 | 12:38 PM
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OEM cranks. Both on adjustable cam gear motors.
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Old Apr 14, 2025 | 04:22 AM
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Thank you all for the help. I know it's been several months since I've posted in this thread. I actually ended up so frustrated I listed the car for sale and bought a CTSV. But after a few months I realized the V wasn't what I wanted and I missed racing. So I've decided to resurrect the car and really tear into it. After reading all of the comments I'm completely convinced that the issue is timing related, so I'm going to start by verifying the cam timing. However I have given it some thought and I'm curious if it's possible for the reluctor wheel to have spun? I lifted a head on the combo the last time I had it out for seemingly an unknown reason, I completely torched one head and the block. The injectors went back to Injector Dynamics and they cleaned and checked everything and they were all fine, the fuel I was using was good, and all of the plugs looked fine except for that had been steam cleaned. I had no log of the run so I'm sort of guessing here. In my mind if the reluctor had spun during the run then who knows where the timing could have ended up, and that might also explain the issues I'm having now. Has anyone had this kind of thing happen?
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Old Apr 14, 2025 | 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by moisbest42
Thank you all for the help. I know it's been several months since I've posted in this thread. I actually ended up so frustrated I listed the car for sale and bought a CTSV. But after a few months I realized the V wasn't what I wanted and I missed racing. So I've decided to resurrect the car and really tear into it. After reading all of the comments I'm completely convinced that the issue is timing related, so I'm going to start by verifying the cam timing. However I have given it some thought and I'm curious if it's possible for the reluctor wheel to have spun? I lifted a head on the combo the last time I had it out for seemingly an unknown reason, I completely torched one head and the block. The injectors went back to Injector Dynamics and they cleaned and checked everything and they were all fine, the fuel I was using was good, and all of the plugs looked fine except for that had been steam cleaned. I had no log of the run so I'm sort of guessing here. In my mind if the reluctor had spun during the run then who knows where the timing could have ended up, and that might also explain the issues I'm having now. Has anyone had this kind of thing happen?
That's entirely possible, lots of folks recommend tacking the reluctor wheel to the crank because of just that.
Slide under the car and yard the pan off and see what you can see.
@Forcefed86 is there a way to tell if the reluctor wheel had moved without removing the pan?
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Old Apr 14, 2025 | 09:06 AM
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If the engines running its pretty easy to check. Use a piston stop to find TDC. Mark balancer and use a timing light to see if your motor timing matches commanded ECU timing.

Or if you have an aftermarket ECU you can look at the crank pulses in relation to the #1 cylinder and the cam sensor.
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