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I'm excited to see the difference, unfortunately it won't be anytime soon, later that day of the tune, i went for a drive with my wife, going around 50 on a highway i gave'r hell and lost the transmission and melted #8 piston. I will need to remove the melted from the cylinder wall to know for sure what's bad. So far, Everything else in the motor looks geat, however, i have 7 more pistons/rod assembly to check bearings and the crankshaft bearings
I'm excited to see the difference, unfortunately it won't be anytime soon, later that day of the tune, i went for a drive with my wife, going around 50 on a highway i gave'r hell and lost the transmission and melted #8 piston. I will need to remove the melted from the cylinder wall to know for sure what's bad. So far, Everything else in the motor looks geat, however, i have 7 more pistons/rod assembly to check bearings and the crankshaft bearings
That really sucks man, I'm sorry that happened.
Get'er fixed, find a new tuner (if the cause wasn't a fueling component failure) and keep moving.
You aren't alone when it comes to a catastrophic failure with a new build.
That really sucks man, I'm sorry that happened.
Get'er fixed, find a new tuner (if the cause wasn't a fueling component failure) and keep moving.
You aren't alone when it comes to a catastrophic failure with a new build.
thanks man, i really appreciate that! It's good to know I'm not alone lol.
trying to narrow it down, so far i know it is not the injector
thanks man, i really appreciate that! It's good to know I'm not alone lol.
trying to narrow it down, so far i know it is not the injector
Looks like it went lean and burned. I agree with the others on getting a new tuner. I just helped a guy out with his tune on his Terminator X and I felt bad for the guy cause he paid $500+ for that "tune". It was so far off I'm surprised the motor stayed together
Looks like it went lean and burned. I agree with the others on getting a new tuner. I just helped a guy out with his tune on his Terminator X and I felt bad for the guy cause he paid $500+ for that "tune". It was so far off I'm surprised the motor stayed together
i agree about it going lean, just nor sure how or why. I'm 650 for the tune. I posted it a few post ago
i agree about it going lean, just nor sure how or why. I'm 650 for the tune. I posted it a few post ago
Just remember in the future that when your engine shows serious problems on the dyno, don't go beating on it doing highway pulls without figuring out the problem first.
Just remember in the future that when your engine shows serious problems on the dyno, don't go beating on it doing highway pulls without figuring out the problem first.
That's a bit of a misguided comment. well, hindsight ya. At the time it didn't show any serious problems, just had a peak hp at 5200, yes this seemed odd to me. The tuner didn't make it sound like there was any issue with the current setup, and Zero indication that was ever lean while making pulls.
Well now you can fix the engine, make the move to the 4L80E (good thing you didn't buy the converter because I think they're different), go E85 and get a different tuner.
Remember if going to E85, you'll need 30% more fuel so plan your fuel system accordingly, dual 450 pumps, -08AN PTFE line, BRFPR, Bosch 210 injectors, etc.
If doing remote tuning, I recommend Pat G.
He's tuned both my turbo pump gas LS cars, and I've run them both pretty aggressively boost wise on pump gas, both have made good power and held up to quite a bit of abuse.
You tell him when you're satisfied about how the car runs, he went back and forth with me on mine for a while until I said I was good, been street driving the car for a couple years now and it's been great.
Stay positive, these things happen, a dude on here just built a 5.3 turbo truck and had all kinds of random issues, blew up the engine, broke the transmission but he kept at it and is now enjoying the hell out the truck.
Well now you can fix the engine, make the move to the 4L80E (good thing you didn't buy the converter because I think they're different), go E85 and get a different tuner.
Remember if going to E85, you'll need 30% more fuel so plan your fuel system accordingly, dual 450 pumps, -08AN PTFE line, BRFPR, Bosch 210 injectors, etc.
If doing remote tuning, I recommend Pat G.
He's tuned both my turbo pump gas LS cars, and I've run them both pretty aggressively boost wise on pump gas, both have made good power and held up to quite a bit of abuse.
You tell him when you're satisfied about how the car runs, he went back and forth with me on mine for a while until I said I was good, been street driving the car for a couple years now and it's been great.
Stay positive, these things happen, a dude on here just built a 5.3 turbo truck and had all kinds of random issues, blew up the engine, broke the transmission but he kept at it and is now enjoying the hell out the truck.
thanks brother, definitely about the converter, I'll get it all planned out for sure. Are you aware of any benefit to dual 450, I current have walbro 525 (yes, the real deal) and i was going to add a 450 for primary pump and hobbs switch for the 525. I already have the -8 PTFE. I looked into those 210, how is idleand low speed drivability?
thanks brother, definitely about the converter, I'll get it all planned out for sure. Are you aware of any benefit to dual 450, I current have walbro 525 (yes, the real deal) and i was going to add a 450 for primary pump and hobbs switch for the 525. I already have the -8 PTFE. I looked into those 210, how is idleand low speed drivability?
A 525 and 450 is even better, 450 for the primary is good and 525 on a Hobbs is good too, both should take you pretty far.
Lots of guys run the 210's with both pump gas and E and have no issues with idle or low speed drivability, just make sure you buy genuine units, pretty sure VS racing is still selling genuine Bosch 210's.
I'd also invest in an AFR gauge with a boost cut safety feature if you haven't already.
I've used the Innovate SGC-1 in a couple cars and its always worked well, you can set it up to dump boost to gate if your AFR gets too lean.
The Cortex EBC is also very good for the money with tons of options and Chris at Sirhc Labs support is excellent, he responds very quickly to any questions you may have regarding setup, install and use.
That's a bit of a misguided comment. well, hindsight ya. At the time it didn't show any serious problems, just had a peak hp at 5200, yes this seemed odd to me. The tuner didn't make it sound like there was any issue with the current setup, and Zero indication that was ever lean while making pulls.
I wasn't trying to be a dick, and it sounds like your dyno guy just misled you badly. Your combo only pulling to 5200 indicated something seriously wrong, and he should have known that. We don't have enough info over the internet to know exactly what went on, but the dyno guy/tuner who could see and hear everything should have known better.
I wasn't trying to be a dick, and it sounds like your dyno guy just misled you badly. Your combo only pulling to 5200 indicated something seriously wrong, and he should have known that. We don't have enough info over the internet to know exactly what went on, but the dyno guy/tuner who could see and hear everything should have known better.
I don't like to point fingers either but unless the tuner thought it was a diesel engine there should have been some big red flags from him.
If I were the OP, I'd also recommend taking logs of the drives for a little while once its back together just to keep an eye on things.
Maybe I missed it somewhere but where is the dyno graph showing it was lean? I just glanced at the tune and while it needs some help it was commanding a mid 11 AFR at WOT which is fine and it had timing commanded from 7 to 11 degrees at WOT in boost which is pretty damn low and "safe" IMO. It also still had a stock Tahoe intake air temp retard table in it which is VERY aggressive. I mean there are other things in the tune that I dislike, but I don't see the immediate cause for a melted piston assuming the dyno was showing a mid 11 AFR and timing being as low as it was. This almost implies to me that something else happened, like a fuel pump took a **** or wastegate didn't open, etc.
All, thank you for the help trying to figure out why. I call the guy that tuned it, and who also owns the shop.told him what happened. He has a injector flow bench (not a cheap one) and tested the injectors, which all performed perfectly.
dyno graph
.
All, thank you for the help trying to figure out why. I call the guy that tuned it, and who also owns the shop.told him what happened. He has a injector flow bench (not a cheap one) and tested the injectors, which all performed perfectly.
dyno graph
.
That graph doesn't show AFR at all, do you have something showing that or can the guy send it to you? But actually seeing that graph it rolled over pretty hard... what is your full engine combo? I think you said it had a sloppy stage 2 but what valve springs? Any idea on installed height/seat pressure? Valve float will show a serious roll off at the end, kind of like what I'm seeing in that graph.
That graph doesn't show AFR at all, do you have something showing that or can the guy send it to you? But actually seeing that graph it rolled over pretty hard... what is your full engine combo? I think you said it had a sloppy stage 2 but what valve springs? Any idea on installed height/seat pressure? Valve float will show a serious roll off at the end, kind of like what I'm seeing in that graph.
nope, gotta be the lamest graph ever handed out.and i did ask. Brian tooley .660. Install height/ seat pressure was not checked.
Maybe I missed it somewhere but where is the dyno graph showing it was lean? I just glanced at the tune and while it needs some help it was commanding a mid 11 AFR at WOT which is fine and it had timing commanded from 7 to 11 degrees at WOT in boost which is pretty damn low and "safe" IMO. It also still had a stock Tahoe intake air temp retard table in it which is VERY aggressive. I mean there are other things in the tune that I dislike, but I don't see the immediate cause for a melted piston assuming the dyno was showing a mid 11 AFR and timing being as low as it was. This almost implies to me that something else happened, like a fuel pump took a **** or wastegate didn't open, etc.
The tune was commanding 11.5 AFR but whether or not the engine was actually seeing 11.5 AFR is another question correct?
Is the OP using any kind of standalone AFR gauge?
If power was plateauing at 5,200 rpm, wouldn't that possibly indicate a fuel delivery issue?
The tune was commanding 11.5 AFR but whether or not the engine was actually seeing 11.5 AFR is another question correct?
Well that's always the question and why I asked about what it actually showed on the dyno. I mean setting the actual AFR to match commanded in the VE table is the probably the easiest part and one of the first things that happens during the tuning process so I usually give somebody who tunes for a living the benefit of the doubt on that at least.
Originally Posted by The ******
If power was plateauing at 5,200 rpm, wouldn't that possibly indicate a fuel delivery issue?
Could be a lot of things, but valve float is usually at the top of the list for me especially in turbo applications just because I've seen it A LOT. It doesn't look jagged enough to me for blowing out the spark but that's a possibility too.
The part that makes me most concerned is from the very first post, he said that he is trying to tune it himself before the dyno tune and he was commanding a 14.7 AFR at WOT. What's to say that the damage wasn't caused from the initial tuning attempt and ANY pulls after that just made it worse?
Well that's always the question and why I asked about what it actually showed on the dyno. I mean setting the actual AFR to match commanded in the VE table is the probably the easiest part and one of the first things that happens during the tuning process so I usually give somebody who tunes for a living the benefit of the doubt on that at least.
Could be a lot of things, but valve float is usually at the top of the list for me especially in turbo applications just because I've seen it A LOT. It doesn't look jagged enough to me for blowing out the spark but that's a possibility too.
The part that makes me most concerned is from the very first post, he said that he is trying to tune it himself before the dyno tune and he was commanding a 14.7 AFR at WOT. What's to say that the damage wasn't caused from the initial tuning attempt and ANY pulls after that just made it worse?
i gave this some thought as well. However i did not make any WOT pulls. My intentions on tuning was to get the idle and make it driveable to the shop.but that being said, anything is possible, With all the pulls on the dyno, seems like something should've happen sooner, if it was damaged before. Also, on the way back home from the dyno, i got on it a few times with no issue. I feel the one time i got on it something failed.. as mentioned before, fuel pump possibly. Seems odd that just cyl. 8 is the only piston damaged.
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