Copper Headgaskets
Copper Headgaskets I'm running an Iron punched 30 over with some aluminum patriot heads... Well I figured since I was getting a new block that I would have it Ringed with stainless wire and go the whole copper gasket route... Over the past week I've yanked my heads about 6 times... 
these copper gaskets don't seal worth a ****... They leak so bad... that in 1 hour my entire coolant system was drained without me knowing it. I fire the car up and let it heat cycle a couple more minutes before I take it out to break it in... I look and the temp is going up fast. I shut the car down but it's too late... I warp a gd head... I figure the head was off to begin with so I take them to the machine shop and have them deck them. I put the heads back on, torque the dog **** out of them "arp studs" poured some water in the radiator... I can squeeze the radiator hose and water comes squirting out of the side. I have wasted about 3 days of my life and countless dollars farting around with this car... and I can honestly say it's one step from being driven into the nearest creek. I got Flatout Coated Copper gaskets... they say you don't have to coat the water passages with silicone because they are coated already... I had my block and heads checked for straightness after this whole deal and they are 100%... I'm so pissed right now... I'm going to bed... so I can mop up the water on the garage floor in the morning 
any advise would be greatly appreciated...
these copper gaskets don't seal worth a ****... They leak so bad... that in 1 hour my entire coolant system was drained without me knowing it. I fire the car up and let it heat cycle a couple more minutes before I take it out to break it in... I look and the temp is going up fast. I shut the car down but it's too late... I warp a gd head... I figure the head was off to begin with so I take them to the machine shop and have them deck them. I put the heads back on, torque the dog **** out of them "arp studs" poured some water in the radiator... I can squeeze the radiator hose and water comes squirting out of the side. I have wasted about 3 days of my life and countless dollars farting around with this car... and I can honestly say it's one step from being driven into the nearest creek. I got Flatout Coated Copper gaskets... they say you don't have to coat the water passages with silicone because they are coated already... I had my block and heads checked for straightness after this whole deal and they are 100%... I'm so pissed right now... I'm going to bed... so I can mop up the water on the garage floor in the morning any advise would be greatly appreciated...
I have copper head gaskets on my 403ci W2W motor and it does not leak a drop of water...and never has. Give Kurt a call, I am sure that they can talk you through what you need to do to get it to seal.
On The Tree
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
From: Tampa, FloriDUH
use "toyota seal packing" (silicone) on the gaskets...i garentee you they will not leak, all you will need is a thin coating on both sides and put it together...that copper coat stuff is total garbage. good luck
Sounds like your wire is to high above surface. We use a reciever groove system that goes like this.
The groove is cut for the wire to stick above surface about 25% of the gasket thickness. We use a .042 wire normally with a .038 cutter.
The reciever groove is cut about .060 wide on the same diameter as the wire. Its depth is 35-50% of the wires installed height.
So a .050 gasket would be:
Cut your wire groove .029-.030 deep.
Cut your reciever groove .006 deep.
I normally "Square" the end of the wire with a 2 inch sander, then start installing in a circular pattern. I always "start" by a headbolt, so the seam will be at the headbolt were the load is high. When you come around within 2 inches of the circle being complete, I cut the wire just a touch long with wire cutters. Then I "square" the end of the wire and hold it in place to check the finished length. Keep triming the wire with the sander untill you get the length right. When its good you will need to stare at the head to find the seam.
People use many different ways to install the wire. You should try not to hit the wire directly. I use a craftsmen flat faced body hammer to hold the wire against the groove, then i tap on the body hammer with a medium size hammer to seat the wire in the groove.
Kurt
The groove is cut for the wire to stick above surface about 25% of the gasket thickness. We use a .042 wire normally with a .038 cutter.
The reciever groove is cut about .060 wide on the same diameter as the wire. Its depth is 35-50% of the wires installed height.
So a .050 gasket would be:
Cut your wire groove .029-.030 deep.
Cut your reciever groove .006 deep.
I normally "Square" the end of the wire with a 2 inch sander, then start installing in a circular pattern. I always "start" by a headbolt, so the seam will be at the headbolt were the load is high. When you come around within 2 inches of the circle being complete, I cut the wire just a touch long with wire cutters. Then I "square" the end of the wire and hold it in place to check the finished length. Keep triming the wire with the sander untill you get the length right. When its good you will need to stare at the head to find the seam.
People use many different ways to install the wire. You should try not to hit the wire directly. I use a craftsmen flat faced body hammer to hold the wire against the groove, then i tap on the body hammer with a medium size hammer to seat the wire in the groove.
Kurt
Something sounds wrong. You say that the block has the wire ring in it? Do the heads have the receiver groove cut in them? I have heard of them seeping but not pouring out. Sounds to me like the heads aren't seating down on the gaskets.
We use high temp silicone around all water passages on both sides when we put them on. No leaks.
We use high temp silicone around all water passages on both sides when we put them on. No leaks.
I am using the Flatout copper gasket with the rubber seal and they have worked great. I also have the block o-ringed. I pinholed one of these gaskets while in Chicago and drove another 3000+ miles with it that way. The copper actually helped because the leak never got worse. I put some stop leak in the car and didn't have any problems after that. I just ordered a new set of Flatout gaskets, and will be switching out the leaky gasket today. The first time we put these gaskets on the car, they did leak. We tightened down the studs more and didn't have a problem with them until the pinhole from detonation.
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Thanks for all the terrific information. I really appreciate you guys taking the time to reply. The only thing I can think of is the rings are installed too high. I'm running a .040 gasket and I'm not sure what the rings ended up being height wise. I'll have a nice sit-down with the machine shop monday. Thanks again everybody!
-Andy
-Andy
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A .040 gasket can be pretty small for copper, depending on what the stickout is. On Tiff's motor, the wire sits .012" above the deck, with a .050" gasket, and no receiver groove.
Andy, My bro Todd is gonna come out to ur place sometime next week and take a look at it for ya
hopefully u'll get it done before you leave in august so you and I can go raise some hell (assuming i'm all healed up of course)
hopefully u'll get it done before you leave in august so you and I can go raise some hell (assuming i'm all healed up of course)
