Iron Block... ? ... 427?
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From: Raleigh, NC
Iron Block... ? ... 427? Ok... You guys got me thinking about the Iron Block setup.
Someone said that added a couple hundred pounds up front.
Does that add a major traction issue to the vehicle in general? (Not to mention the driveline integrity... but, that goes without saying one would need to have superior components there.)
My magic number is STILL 427. 422 CID is cool, but 427 is almost, well... orgasmic. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
I wonder if that is cost prohibitive to have someone produce a bore size to make the old USA-1 number reincarnated to life?
What would this Behemoth do, mated to the D-1SC Procharger? It might even benefit from a bigger blower, but still... if a 42x CID produced upwards of, say, 500 to 600 RWHP on it's own (couldn't it do that), wouldn't the D-1SC support in excess of 900 RWHP?
I think the 900+ HP potential is based off a motor that can produce up to 500 Base HP N/A. How does that figure into the equation with putting that sucker on a 42x CID motor. How much boost could the D-1SC produce on a 42x motor?
Jason?!!?!! <img border="0" alt="[whiner]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cry.gif" />
Someone said that added a couple hundred pounds up front.
Does that add a major traction issue to the vehicle in general? (Not to mention the driveline integrity... but, that goes without saying one would need to have superior components there.)
My magic number is STILL 427. 422 CID is cool, but 427 is almost, well... orgasmic. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
I wonder if that is cost prohibitive to have someone produce a bore size to make the old USA-1 number reincarnated to life?
What would this Behemoth do, mated to the D-1SC Procharger? It might even benefit from a bigger blower, but still... if a 42x CID produced upwards of, say, 500 to 600 RWHP on it's own (couldn't it do that), wouldn't the D-1SC support in excess of 900 RWHP?
I think the 900+ HP potential is based off a motor that can produce up to 500 Base HP N/A. How does that figure into the equation with putting that sucker on a 42x CID motor. How much boost could the D-1SC produce on a 42x motor?
Jason?!!?!! <img border="0" alt="[whiner]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cry.gif" />
Re: Iron Block... ? ... 427? I think ARE has successfully made a 4.125" bore Aluminum LS1. Combine that with a 4.00" crank; and you have 427 cubic inches. Plus a larger bore than stroke that is supposed to be the hot ticket for flowing a lot of air, and hence power <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" />
<img border="0" alt="[Pontiac]" title="" src="graemlins/formula.gif" />
<small>[ March 20, 2002, 10:34 AM: Message edited by: 1CAMWNDR ]</small>
<img border="0" alt="[Pontiac]" title="" src="graemlins/formula.gif" />
<small>[ March 20, 2002, 10:34 AM: Message edited by: 1CAMWNDR ]</small>
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Re: Iron Block... ? ... 427? iron block is 70pbs heavier, k-member a-arms saves 40 of that, and your a/c would counteract the rest. biggest bore you could do with an iron block is 4.06, and thats only with few blocks (after being checked out...ask Nick at ARE). Lets be safe and say 4.03" bore and a 4.180" stroke. or say s 4.04" bore and 4.16" stroke. or 4.06" bore and 4.125" stoke. you can go buy a 4.125 crank but your probably have to offset ground that crank to reach 4.16 or 4.18. but you did want 427cid. with an aluminum block and 4" stroke you'd need about a 4.125" bore as said above. MTI is now going out to 4.15" so they can do that for you no problem
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From: Woodlyn, PA
Re: Iron Block... ? ... 427? Food for thought... these are different animals, however D1SC's Are used on vipers.. and available as an upgrade to the standard kit for a 454SS pickup.
Don't know if there is a difference in all these D1SC's as far as airflow charactoristics.
Don't know if there is a difference in all these D1SC's as far as airflow charactoristics.
Re: Iron Block... ? ... 427? BORE x STROKE
I run an ARE Iron block superstroker, 4.060 BORE X 4.075 STROKE. I have a 422ci motor.
Added weight is about 75 lbs. But iron makes for a better clamping surface.
I run an ARE Iron block superstroker, 4.060 BORE X 4.075 STROKE. I have a 422ci motor.
Added weight is about 75 lbs. But iron makes for a better clamping surface.
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From: Raleigh, NC
Re: Iron Block... ? ... 427? I got up with Jason today.
If I understand it correctly, he is saying the 422 for boost can be built conservatively at N/A (not as high as if it would be run N/A). Then, the blower run at around 5 to 7 PSI and make about the same peak HP as a 382 stroker running 10 to 12 PSI, yet make much more torque.
I can see many benefits with that contrasting scenario right off the bat.
What do you guys think of that? Pros/Cons?
If I understand it correctly, he is saying the 422 for boost can be built conservatively at N/A (not as high as if it would be run N/A). Then, the blower run at around 5 to 7 PSI and make about the same peak HP as a 382 stroker running 10 to 12 PSI, yet make much more torque.
I can see many benefits with that contrasting scenario right off the bat.
What do you guys think of that? Pros/Cons?
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From: Chicago, IL
Re: Iron Block... ? ... 427? I think going to the iron block only adds about 70lbs to the front of the car. You can probably get most of that back by switching to a tubular K-member and A-arms.
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Re: Iron Block... ? ... 427? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">BORE x STROKE
I run an ARE Iron block superstroker, 4.060 BORE X 4.075 STROKE. I have a 422ci motor.
Added weight is about 75 lbs. But iron makes for a better clamping surface</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">put a blower on it John and make some real Hp!
heck I saw you are looking for what 470RWHP?
KP made that power with stock cam, 346 cubes and only 6-7psi <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
You know you want to to do it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
Steve
I run an ARE Iron block superstroker, 4.060 BORE X 4.075 STROKE. I have a 422ci motor.
Added weight is about 75 lbs. But iron makes for a better clamping surface</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">put a blower on it John and make some real Hp!
heck I saw you are looking for what 470RWHP?
KP made that power with stock cam, 346 cubes and only 6-7psi <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
You know you want to to do it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
Steve
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From: Raleigh, NC
Re: Iron Block... ? ... 427? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by MelloYellow:
<strong>Maybe I'm being thick, but I never wanted the extra TQ. Blowing clutches, trannys, half-shafts, driveshafts... Traction problems...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You're not thick, but I could see more torque helping a high-end cam be more aggressive.
The lower boost level not being as finicky about octane.
Room to up boost if I WANTED to watch the octane level.
etc...
Any other thoughts.
<strong>Maybe I'm being thick, but I never wanted the extra TQ. Blowing clutches, trannys, half-shafts, driveshafts... Traction problems...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You're not thick, but I could see more torque helping a high-end cam be more aggressive.
The lower boost level not being as finicky about octane.
Room to up boost if I WANTED to watch the octane level.
etc...
Any other thoughts.
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Re: Iron Block... ? ... 427? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Black LS1 T/A:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by MelloYellow:
<strong>Maybe I'm being thick, but I never wanted the extra TQ. Blowing clutches, trannys, half-shafts, driveshafts... Traction problems...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You're not thick, but I could see more torque helping a high-end cam be more aggressive.
The lower boost level not being as finicky about octane.
Room to up boost if I WANTED to watch the octane level.
etc...
Any other thoughts.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If you can afford it get the bigger motor, as long as it is reliable. you can make as much power as a 382 with 10-12 PSI, but your octane requirements will go up, slightly, i say 42x motor with less boost and run on pump gas.
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by MelloYellow:
<strong>Maybe I'm being thick, but I never wanted the extra TQ. Blowing clutches, trannys, half-shafts, driveshafts... Traction problems...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You're not thick, but I could see more torque helping a high-end cam be more aggressive.
The lower boost level not being as finicky about octane.
Room to up boost if I WANTED to watch the octane level.
etc...
Any other thoughts.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If you can afford it get the bigger motor, as long as it is reliable. you can make as much power as a 382 with 10-12 PSI, but your octane requirements will go up, slightly, i say 42x motor with less boost and run on pump gas.
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From: Raleigh, NC
Re: Iron Block... ? ... 427? Nickn20, I think I'm gonna do it!
I'll have to incur some debt, but a 427 CID is my dream motor... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
Reliable? I will get Golden West Performance to do it. That will give me piece of mind.
The 12-bolt is built and about to be shipped. I just hope I don't have to replace the tranny TOO soon! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />
I'll have to incur some debt, but a 427 CID is my dream motor... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
Reliable? I will get Golden West Performance to do it. That will give me piece of mind.
The 12-bolt is built and about to be shipped. I just hope I don't have to replace the tranny TOO soon! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />
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Re: Iron Block... ? ... 427? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Black LS1 T/A:
<strong>[QUOTE] I could see more torque helping a high-end cam be more aggressive.
The lower boost level not being as finicky about octane.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">True. Some higher duration cams can be a dog in 1st gear. You do have that convertor kicking in tho. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
If you've got the $ tho, that's an awesome setup. With my past experience tho.. stuff beyond my control breaking... stock chain, stock oil pumps.. and the results.. u might want to save some for the blown up fund. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
What's the rwhp goal of the project again?
How about stock cubes and a small shot of Nitrous to cool things down? How much is the crank? Definitely forge everything.
<strong>[QUOTE] I could see more torque helping a high-end cam be more aggressive.
The lower boost level not being as finicky about octane.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">True. Some higher duration cams can be a dog in 1st gear. You do have that convertor kicking in tho. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
If you've got the $ tho, that's an awesome setup. With my past experience tho.. stuff beyond my control breaking... stock chain, stock oil pumps.. and the results.. u might want to save some for the blown up fund. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
What's the rwhp goal of the project again?
How about stock cubes and a small shot of Nitrous to cool things down? How much is the crank? Definitely forge everything.
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Re: Iron Block... ? ... 427? Break-down fund... sounds like a good idea to me... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
I'm shooting for RWHP in the low 600's.
I could make more. But remember, I'm combining the bigger cubes and the SC to give me a more reliable setup while matching the performance I think a 382/383 would give me running 10 PSI.
I'm hoping a street-mannered 427 Stroker and 5 to 7 PSI will give me comparable performance... which I'm hoping will give me nearly a second better ET than my stock setup. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />
I'm shooting for RWHP in the low 600's.
I could make more. But remember, I'm combining the bigger cubes and the SC to give me a more reliable setup while matching the performance I think a 382/383 would give me running 10 PSI.
I'm hoping a street-mannered 427 Stroker and 5 to 7 PSI will give me comparable performance... which I'm hoping will give me nearly a second better ET than my stock setup. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />
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From: Raleigh, NC
Re: Iron Block... ? ... 427? Cool! That's the same Bore and Stroke I will have.
What compression do you run. I may not have the Horsepower you have N/A.
Your N/A HP is right about where mine was running 10 PSI with my blower! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />
Tell me some more about how you like it... did you go to a 12-bolt rear. Are you M6 or A4, and did you modify your tranny?
If you have a site, I'd like to see some pics.
Thanks for the info!
What compression do you run. I may not have the Horsepower you have N/A.
Your N/A HP is right about where mine was running 10 PSI with my blower! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />
Tell me some more about how you like it... did you go to a 12-bolt rear. Are you M6 or A4, and did you modify your tranny?
If you have a site, I'd like to see some pics.
Thanks for the info!
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Re: Iron Block... ? ... 427? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Black LS1 T/A:
<strong>Nickn20, I think I'm gonna do it!
I'll have to incur some debt, but a 427 CID is my dream motor... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
Reliable? I will get Golden West Performance to do it. That will give me piece of mind.
The 12-bolt is built and about to be shipped. I just hope I don't have to replace the tranny TOO soon! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">cool dude, i think you will make more power than 600 at the wheel though, with 7 psi i would say mid to high 600s.
reliability i meant by this is how reliable is a block punch out that far? i wouldnt want to throw a rod out the side of the damn thing, lol
also GWP, how much work do they do with LS1s?? I didnt know they built motors.
<strong>Nickn20, I think I'm gonna do it!
I'll have to incur some debt, but a 427 CID is my dream motor... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
Reliable? I will get Golden West Performance to do it. That will give me piece of mind.
The 12-bolt is built and about to be shipped. I just hope I don't have to replace the tranny TOO soon! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">cool dude, i think you will make more power than 600 at the wheel though, with 7 psi i would say mid to high 600s.
reliability i meant by this is how reliable is a block punch out that far? i wouldnt want to throw a rod out the side of the damn thing, lol
also GWP, how much work do they do with LS1s?? I didnt know they built motors.