My h20/alky system, a few pics
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From: the moon
My h20/alky system, a few pics Sorry about fuzzy pics,I used the cheapest camera Known to man <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Pure liquid intercooling using 4 nozzles, this G-trim system on my 346 is just "slighty Modified" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
<img src="http://home.attbi.com/~mrguy/nozzle3.jpg" alt="" />
<img src="http://home.attbi.com/~mrguy/nozzle1.jpg" alt="" />
<img src="http://home.attbi.com/~mrguy/distblock.jpg" alt="" />
Steve aka Just_Me
Pure liquid intercooling using 4 nozzles, this G-trim system on my 346 is just "slighty Modified" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
<img src="http://home.attbi.com/~mrguy/nozzle3.jpg" alt="" />
<img src="http://home.attbi.com/~mrguy/nozzle1.jpg" alt="" />
<img src="http://home.attbi.com/~mrguy/distblock.jpg" alt="" />
Steve aka Just_Me
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From: Bellevue, Wa
Re: My h20/alky system, a few pics your a wild man <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
why 4 nozzles now though? is it that these atomize much better but can't flow enough thus needing 4 nozzles for the proper volume of water/alky?
I finally almost have my car in a state of tune where I am ready to activate my system. been on the car for a few months now, never activated.
why 4 nozzles now though? is it that these atomize much better but can't flow enough thus needing 4 nozzles for the proper volume of water/alky?
I finally almost have my car in a state of tune where I am ready to activate my system. been on the car for a few months now, never activated.
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From: the moon
Re: My h20/alky system, a few pics Blackbird, yes a single nozzle begins to really lose it's atomization at the high flows I am now using.There are a few in the turbo Buick crowd who now use 4 nozzles also.
For instance it would take a single 122lb/hr fuel injector to equal the flow of my 4 nozzles.
The spray gets coarse at this flow level with a single and you lose some charge cooling and start to run into a droplet size to large to flow uniformly through the manifold.
Not really a concern IMO until you go beyond 15 gals/hr.
Right now I can use even more flow and I will go from 80 to 100psi with the system.If that is not enough then I will install even larger nozzles.
My system takes about 1 second or less to reach full pressure, and when it does the car just takes off HARD.You can really feel it kick in.
I took a little risk tonight and ran it hard for the 1st time since I rebuilt this motor.
I shut it down by 6000rpm as I was seeing 11+psi at that point and I have not installed the big fuel pump yet.
This G-trim is pushing 6psi at 50% throttle at only 4500rpm.
The blower has been slightly modded internally for a bit more flow and pullied to near it's max speed.
Cool28, Basically it reduces boosted charge temps and can totally eliminate detonation as well as keep combustion temps down etc.
Puts an end to this- <img src="http://home.attbi.com/~mrguy/Piston.jpg" alt="" />
That was a poor piston of mine that saw one to many lean 200hp n20 runs and led to the rebuild of my motor.Almost certainly from excessive heat and a butted top ring gap.
Steve
For instance it would take a single 122lb/hr fuel injector to equal the flow of my 4 nozzles.
The spray gets coarse at this flow level with a single and you lose some charge cooling and start to run into a droplet size to large to flow uniformly through the manifold.
Not really a concern IMO until you go beyond 15 gals/hr.
Right now I can use even more flow and I will go from 80 to 100psi with the system.If that is not enough then I will install even larger nozzles.
My system takes about 1 second or less to reach full pressure, and when it does the car just takes off HARD.You can really feel it kick in.
I took a little risk tonight and ran it hard for the 1st time since I rebuilt this motor.
I shut it down by 6000rpm as I was seeing 11+psi at that point and I have not installed the big fuel pump yet.
This G-trim is pushing 6psi at 50% throttle at only 4500rpm.
The blower has been slightly modded internally for a bit more flow and pullied to near it's max speed.
Cool28, Basically it reduces boosted charge temps and can totally eliminate detonation as well as keep combustion temps down etc.
Puts an end to this- <img src="http://home.attbi.com/~mrguy/Piston.jpg" alt="" />
That was a poor piston of mine that saw one to many lean 200hp n20 runs and led to the rebuild of my motor.Almost certainly from excessive heat and a butted top ring gap.
Steve
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From: the moon
Re: My h20/alky system, a few pics </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">My mech said it will help control detonation by cooling the charge, but will cost power too.
How much power would water injection cost you?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">A poor system could cost Hp.
An improperly tuned good system can cost hp.
A good system properly tuned will make HP!
Most of us do not use pure water though and use a heavy % of various alcohols.
Steve
How much power would water injection cost you?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">A poor system could cost Hp.
An improperly tuned good system can cost hp.
A good system properly tuned will make HP!
Most of us do not use pure water though and use a heavy % of various alcohols.
Steve
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From: Chi-Town
Re: My h20/alky system, a few pics </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by MelloYellow:
<strong>Boom!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">if you are referring to me, do some research before you post an assumption
if not, i apologize <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
<strong>Boom!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">if you are referring to me, do some research before you post an assumption
if not, i apologize <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
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From: Las Cruces, NM
Re: My h20/alky system, a few pics I have also been looking at propane injection. Last a long time on a small bottle and you can spray into the intercooler (turbo setup). when it vaporizes it temperature is around -20 deg F.
You should have no problems with "BOOM" if designed properly, just like any power-addr. It also adds some fuel content (more than alky/water) and has a octane rating of roughly 110. I have not got around to doing much research on it yet, still trying to get the turbo setup on my car put together.
Gary
You should have no problems with "BOOM" if designed properly, just like any power-addr. It also adds some fuel content (more than alky/water) and has a octane rating of roughly 110. I have not got around to doing much research on it yet, still trying to get the turbo setup on my car put together.
Gary
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From: Centrifugal City
Re: My h20/alky system, a few pics No, I mean the system works..
It's just the Pinto effect that I'd try to avoid.
Also, I wouldn't want Propane in the car during a rollover.
Store it up front near the driver? Or out back for the 16yo teenager to run into? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
How about a higher octane fuel cell?
It's just the Pinto effect that I'd try to avoid.
Also, I wouldn't want Propane in the car during a rollover.
Store it up front near the driver? Or out back for the 16yo teenager to run into? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
How about a higher octane fuel cell?
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From: the moon
Re: My h20/alky system, a few pics I don't know anything about Propane.I have heard of it though.
For now I still need to fine tune this system. I need it to hit sooner. Right now this motor feels like a grenade going off when you hammer it.
I am honestly worried the motor will not tolerate this sort of power very long.I don't have good enough parts in it.
It gets to a point of craziness for the street.
You guys with bigger cube blown motors, what do you do run slicks full time? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
For now I still need to fine tune this system. I need it to hit sooner. Right now this motor feels like a grenade going off when you hammer it.
I am honestly worried the motor will not tolerate this sort of power very long.I don't have good enough parts in it.
It gets to a point of craziness for the street.
You guys with bigger cube blown motors, what do you do run slicks full time? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
Re: My h20/alky system, a few pics the set-up looks nice, 2 ?'s
1. what do you do to put pressure in the lines? some kind of compressors in the back for the water and alcohol along with water/alcohol tanks?
2. what dose this offer that intercooling/aftercooling does not such as octane possibly i have no idea.
1. what do you do to put pressure in the lines? some kind of compressors in the back for the water and alcohol along with water/alcohol tanks?
2. what dose this offer that intercooling/aftercooling does not such as octane possibly i have no idea.
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From: Bay Area, CA
Re: My h20/alky system, a few pics </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by MIGHTYMOUSE:
<strong>the set-up looks nice, 2 ?'s
1. what do you do to put pressure in the lines? some kind of compressors in the back for the water and alcohol along with water/alcohol tanks?
2. what dose this offer that intercooling/aftercooling does not such as octane possibly i have no idea.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">yes there is usally a electric pump and a resivior, with a hobbs switch set to a certain amount of boost for a water injection system, I have seen people use thier windsheild washer resevior.
as far as what this offers, its bascially a poor man's intercooler, I have heard of it referred to that, but i have seen steve mention that running this will be as effective if not more than a intercooler. poor intercooler design can rob some boost as well. with this setup a G trim doesnt put out a ton of boost, so with a intercooler on there it might have lost some. so WI is a good alternative, to keeping boost levels up without over spinning the head unit. now also I think WI in addition to a high boost car that has exceeded the intercooler limitation of cooling could be beinifcial or on really hot days, the possibilites are endless to WI. WI will keep your cylinders squeaky clean too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> im sure steve will chime in here with some more cool info.
<strong>the set-up looks nice, 2 ?'s
1. what do you do to put pressure in the lines? some kind of compressors in the back for the water and alcohol along with water/alcohol tanks?
2. what dose this offer that intercooling/aftercooling does not such as octane possibly i have no idea.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">yes there is usally a electric pump and a resivior, with a hobbs switch set to a certain amount of boost for a water injection system, I have seen people use thier windsheild washer resevior.
as far as what this offers, its bascially a poor man's intercooler, I have heard of it referred to that, but i have seen steve mention that running this will be as effective if not more than a intercooler. poor intercooler design can rob some boost as well. with this setup a G trim doesnt put out a ton of boost, so with a intercooler on there it might have lost some. so WI is a good alternative, to keeping boost levels up without over spinning the head unit. now also I think WI in addition to a high boost car that has exceeded the intercooler limitation of cooling could be beinifcial or on really hot days, the possibilites are endless to WI. WI will keep your cylinders squeaky clean too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> im sure steve will chime in here with some more cool info.
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From: the moon
Re: My h20/alky system, a few pics yes I run a big pump that pushes 100psi real easy and a separate 2.5 Qt resivoir.
Besides the obvious charge cooling, it's main function is to reduce combustion temps and with the proper amount of water, it is actually impossible to detonate the engine.
MANY intercooled turbo Buick guys run these systems and the systems are used all the time on intercooled motors not so much for charge cooling but for the other benefits.
Yes it also keeps the motor squeaky clean and carbon won't build up.
Comparing water injection to a air heat exchanger(intercooler) is not the same.
Plus it's also a fuel source depending on how much alcohol % you use.
I was able to run 11psi on 93 octane fuel with 25 degrees timing with this system with 10-1 compression.
Try that with just an intercooler on pump gas and you'll be in trouble.
Steve
Besides the obvious charge cooling, it's main function is to reduce combustion temps and with the proper amount of water, it is actually impossible to detonate the engine.
MANY intercooled turbo Buick guys run these systems and the systems are used all the time on intercooled motors not so much for charge cooling but for the other benefits.
Yes it also keeps the motor squeaky clean and carbon won't build up.
Comparing water injection to a air heat exchanger(intercooler) is not the same.
Plus it's also a fuel source depending on how much alcohol % you use.
I was able to run 11psi on 93 octane fuel with 25 degrees timing with this system with 10-1 compression.
Try that with just an intercooler on pump gas and you'll be in trouble.
Steve
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From: Bay Area, CA
Re: My h20/alky system, a few pics </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by SJH:
<strong>yes I run a big pump that pushes 100psi real easy and a separate 2.5 Qt resivoir.
Besides the obvious charge cooling, it's main function is to reduce combustion temps and with the proper amount of water, it is actually impossible to detonate the engine.
MANY intercooled turbo Buick guys run these systems and the systems are used all the time on intercooled motors not so much for charge cooling but for the other benefits.
Yes it also keeps the motor squeaky clean and carbon won't build up.
Comparing water injection to a air heat exchanger(intercooler) is not the same.
Plus it's also a fuel source depending on how much alcohol % you use.
I was able to run 11psi on 93 octane fuel with 25 degrees timing with this system with 10-1 compression.
Try that with just an intercooler on pump gas and you'll be in trouble.
Steve</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I agree 100 percent <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> 11 psi is nuts on a stock motor, with that much timing, perhaps a intercooler and a little water'alky system for me when i get a FI setup <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
<strong>yes I run a big pump that pushes 100psi real easy and a separate 2.5 Qt resivoir.
Besides the obvious charge cooling, it's main function is to reduce combustion temps and with the proper amount of water, it is actually impossible to detonate the engine.
MANY intercooled turbo Buick guys run these systems and the systems are used all the time on intercooled motors not so much for charge cooling but for the other benefits.
Yes it also keeps the motor squeaky clean and carbon won't build up.
Comparing water injection to a air heat exchanger(intercooler) is not the same.
Plus it's also a fuel source depending on how much alcohol % you use.
I was able to run 11psi on 93 octane fuel with 25 degrees timing with this system with 10-1 compression.
Try that with just an intercooler on pump gas and you'll be in trouble.
Steve</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I agree 100 percent <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> 11 psi is nuts on a stock motor, with that much timing, perhaps a intercooler and a little water'alky system for me when i get a FI setup <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
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From: DE
Re: My h20/alky system, a few pics I have to chime here. SJH has some very good points about alcohol/water injection. ALOT more power can be had when using one of these systems with an intercooler. The Turbo Buick guys use pure alcohol for best results. There is a great system for the Turbo Buicks with in cockpit adjustable pump speed, boost level when system turns on, low pump warning light, and a armed switch and light. I see no reason why this could not be used in a ls1 car. Check it out!!
http://www.geocities.com/rad87gn/tech/SteveCkit.html
http://www.geocities.com/rad87gn/tech/SteveCkit.html