Which would be a better blower cam?
Which would be a better blower cam? ------------------LIFT----Duration-LSA
----------------IN---EX---IN--EX
01 LS6 cam .525 .525 207 217 116
02 LS6 cam .550 .550 204 218 117.5
Will be using some stage 2 ported and polished heads with bigger intake valves.
----------------IN---EX---IN--EX
01 LS6 cam .525 .525 207 217 116
02 LS6 cam .550 .550 204 218 117.5
Will be using some stage 2 ported and polished heads with bigger intake valves.
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Joined: Feb 2002
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From: the moon
Re: Which would be a better blower cam? won't make a damn bit of difference IMO..
You won't make any more power over a stock cam either.
The only difference will be the boost seen in the engine.
I say this as I read your post you are spinning your blower well past redline so have no way of getting more air into the motor.A cam will not do it.
The blower is the governor, not the cam and heads like on an N.A. engine.
Also, at 7100rpm you blower is well beyond sonic tip speed.
Your at around 1540ft/sec on your impeller tips.
Sonic tip speed is about 1150ft/sec on a typical day.That's ~55,000 impeller rpm on the g-trim.
Of course air speed is probably lower than impeller speed but you can believe Vortechs 65,000rpm redline.
Once airflow hits the speed of sound the blower becomes what they call "choked" and will not continue to increase airflow no matter how fast you spin it.
I spin mine to about 60,000rpm max but have modded it internally a bit with porting.
I get 11psi at 6100rpm with a 2.85" pulley.
Going from a hotcam- 218/227 .525 lift back to a stock cam showed 0 loss in airflow.
What did change was I run about 2psi more boost for the same power.
But same peak power.
You want more power now, you need a bigger blower first.
Steve
You won't make any more power over a stock cam either.
The only difference will be the boost seen in the engine.
I say this as I read your post you are spinning your blower well past redline so have no way of getting more air into the motor.A cam will not do it.
The blower is the governor, not the cam and heads like on an N.A. engine.
Also, at 7100rpm you blower is well beyond sonic tip speed.
Your at around 1540ft/sec on your impeller tips.
Sonic tip speed is about 1150ft/sec on a typical day.That's ~55,000 impeller rpm on the g-trim.
Of course air speed is probably lower than impeller speed but you can believe Vortechs 65,000rpm redline.
Once airflow hits the speed of sound the blower becomes what they call "choked" and will not continue to increase airflow no matter how fast you spin it.
I spin mine to about 60,000rpm max but have modded it internally a bit with porting.
I get 11psi at 6100rpm with a 2.85" pulley.
Going from a hotcam- 218/227 .525 lift back to a stock cam showed 0 loss in airflow.
What did change was I run about 2psi more boost for the same power.
But same peak power.
You want more power now, you need a bigger blower first.
Steve
Re: Which would be a better blower cam? Engine dynamics are far too complicated to say with 100% certainty that xxxheads with xxxcam at xxxboost on xxxengine will reveal significantly better or worse results.
Re: Which would be a better blower cam? SJH was right. I installed stage III heads and o2 LS6 cam. They didn't do ****, except lower boost. I guess it is time for a bigger blower. I've pushed the G-trim as far as possible.
I think it is time to get serious and use the ys trim and build the bottom end. I'm still at 570 and running pig rich. 9.0 - 9.5 till about 6300 rpms then it comes up to about 11.0. it's time for LS1 edit and i think 600RWHP is obtainable. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" />
I think it is time to get serious and use the ys trim and build the bottom end. I'm still at 570 and running pig rich. 9.0 - 9.5 till about 6300 rpms then it comes up to about 11.0. it's time for LS1 edit and i think 600RWHP is obtainable. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" />
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Joined: Feb 2002
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From: the moon
Re: Which would be a better blower cam? Vince, You bring up a good point. Compression ratio will change the power output with the same airflow.
But with a blower you'll run into trouble quick with to much.
You don't hear a lot of guys saying much about 600 reliable RWHP because not many have built up the motors as the blower or tubo purchase makes quite a dent in the wallet.Then you need the fuel system and tuning.
And IMO and not trying to make enemies, most of the ls1 guys are very new to the blower or turbo scene and just don't quite have it under control yet.
434 vs blower? Well I probably make more power than most 434 or 422's and I use a stock 98 ls1 cam <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> .
This makes for a motor that purrs like a kitten at idle and cruise and just explodes when you hit the gas.And I rev to only 6200rpm.That's a supercharged motor.
The trick is in enough boost.
I can't say how reliable my new shortblock is. It only has about 500 miles. But a good 25 full out boosted runs.It should be pretty stout.
The single biggest problem is pistons and rings.
Get good pistons and run plenty of ring gap.Put in good bearings and make sure you have the combustion event under control.
Rods and crank are fine if you keep the revs down and don't plan on a 1000hp.
You can figure from 20 to 30 hp per lb of boost on a 346.
Good heads and cam may be closer to 30.
It just requires knowledge and $$$.
N.A. is much simpler and there is less to go wrong.
If your not a tinkerer and just want to get in and go, then N.A. big cubes may be the better choice.
Steve
But with a blower you'll run into trouble quick with to much.
You don't hear a lot of guys saying much about 600 reliable RWHP because not many have built up the motors as the blower or tubo purchase makes quite a dent in the wallet.Then you need the fuel system and tuning.
And IMO and not trying to make enemies, most of the ls1 guys are very new to the blower or turbo scene and just don't quite have it under control yet.
434 vs blower? Well I probably make more power than most 434 or 422's and I use a stock 98 ls1 cam <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> .
This makes for a motor that purrs like a kitten at idle and cruise and just explodes when you hit the gas.And I rev to only 6200rpm.That's a supercharged motor.
The trick is in enough boost.
I can't say how reliable my new shortblock is. It only has about 500 miles. But a good 25 full out boosted runs.It should be pretty stout.
The single biggest problem is pistons and rings.
Get good pistons and run plenty of ring gap.Put in good bearings and make sure you have the combustion event under control.
Rods and crank are fine if you keep the revs down and don't plan on a 1000hp.
You can figure from 20 to 30 hp per lb of boost on a 346.
Good heads and cam may be closer to 30.
It just requires knowledge and $$$.
N.A. is much simpler and there is less to go wrong.
If your not a tinkerer and just want to get in and go, then N.A. big cubes may be the better choice.
Steve
Re: Which would be a better blower cam? Thanks... I do not mind tinkering, but some guys make it seem like a everyday chore.. I have the shortblock to take a good amount of boost. I just need to swap to 6.0L heads and have them worked to lower the compression more and run .078 cometic gaskets. Then I need to get some studs for the heads.. That should put me below 9.1:1 compression. For the $$$$ investment I would like to see in excess of 650rwhp.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
Re: Which would be a better blower cam? since you guys are talking cams and blowers maybe you can help me.
i have a 6.0 with a whipple, right now i am seeing 6psi, i can pully up to 10-11psi before i hit the max recomended rpm for the blower. any more than 6psi and it is hard to stay our of detonation so that is all i am running. since i have room to spin the blower faster would a cam(and maybe heads) help me? spacificaly, if i did heads and cam, then pullyed back up to 6psi would i make more power without having more detonation problems.
i have a 6.0 with a whipple, right now i am seeing 6psi, i can pully up to 10-11psi before i hit the max recomended rpm for the blower. any more than 6psi and it is hard to stay our of detonation so that is all i am running. since i have room to spin the blower faster would a cam(and maybe heads) help me? spacificaly, if i did heads and cam, then pullyed back up to 6psi would i make more power without having more detonation problems.
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TECH Regular
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 414
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From: the moon
Re: Which would be a better blower cam? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">SJH was right. I installed stage III heads and o2 LS6 cam. They didn't do ****, except lower boost. I guess it is time for a bigger blower. I've pushed the G-trim as far as possible</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks for posting that and I was wondering how it would turn out for you.
When you go forced induction unless there is a pretty big restriction with the heads or cam, The blower will just force the air in and you'll pretty much make the power for the amount of air the blower is pushing in.
You have to remember the engine is not breathing for itself anymore.
So adding a larger cam or better heads or even more cubes without changing blower airflow( in your case you can't because it's maxed) just lowers the back pressure or boost, but peak power stays about the same.
This is not always true if the heads or cam are very restrictive.But the ls1 heads and stock cam are very good.
I had some very heavily ported heads and a hotcam on my motor. I made about 65hp more N.A. than I do now with a stock cam and mild heads.That's huge.
But with the blower power is indentical, I just see more boost now.
Reworking the blower now puts me well over where I was with the old heads and cam.
Plus going back to the stock cam gives this thing much more lowend.
So when I look for power I concentrate on the blower airflow.
Now if you put a bigger blower on there, well then your going to see some big gains!
How much did your boost drop?
When you go forced induction unless there is a pretty big restriction with the heads or cam, The blower will just force the air in and you'll pretty much make the power for the amount of air the blower is pushing in.
You have to remember the engine is not breathing for itself anymore.
So adding a larger cam or better heads or even more cubes without changing blower airflow( in your case you can't because it's maxed) just lowers the back pressure or boost, but peak power stays about the same.
This is not always true if the heads or cam are very restrictive.But the ls1 heads and stock cam are very good.
I had some very heavily ported heads and a hotcam on my motor. I made about 65hp more N.A. than I do now with a stock cam and mild heads.That's huge.
But with the blower power is indentical, I just see more boost now.
Reworking the blower now puts me well over where I was with the old heads and cam.
Plus going back to the stock cam gives this thing much more lowend.
So when I look for power I concentrate on the blower airflow.
Now if you put a bigger blower on there, well then your going to see some big gains!
How much did your boost drop?
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Verdad Gallardo Re: Which would be a better blower cam? I am glad to read this post.. I was wondering why some were going H/C with Supercharger and going from 470rwhp to 560rwhp when the kit is suppose to give you a 140rwhp increase for xx amount of boost.. I did not hear anyone mention compression ratio.. I am in between deciding on 434ci and Forced Induction. My biggest complaint is getting your moneys worth and reliability.. I ask all the time about a 600rwhp reliable setup and I get comments like it's going to have issues.. If that is the case, why do people try to obtain it. Not worth the money if you have to keep tinkering with you over 10k investment every other day..
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Joined: Feb 2002
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From: the moon
Re: Which would be a better blower cam? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">spacificaly, if i did heads and cam, then pullyed back up to 6psi would i make more power without having more detonation problems.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes you will make a lot more power.
Can't say about the detonation though.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes you will make a lot more power.
Can't say about the detonation though.
