*** Paging Harlan ***
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From: Raleigh, NC
*** Paging Harlan *** Harlan, let me get your opinion:
(Anyone else who feels they can hel, please feel free! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> )
I have a 422 now with the D-1SC and 42# Injectors.
Before, with the 346, and 4.10" pulley, I made 5 PSI at ~ 6K RPMs and stock exhaust. Moving to the 3.20" pulley, I made 12 PSI with the stock exhaust; 9.5 to 10 PSI after putting on headers.
(I don't know how many PSI it would have made stock with the headers and 4.10 pulley, since I changed pullies BEFORE I did the header change).
After putting the 4.10" pulley back on for my initial tuning with the 422, I see about 3 PSI at 6000 RPMs.
Questions:
1. Do you think the 42# injectors will handle the 422 and the 3PSI boost level?
2. At what boost level do you think I may get by if I moved to 50# injectors? (I'm thinking with the 422, it may be 7 or 8 PSI with the 3.20" pulley, but I'm guessing. For all I know, it may still be 10 PSI. To do about 7 PSI, I may need the 3.4 or 3.6 pulley.)
3. Do I just need to plan on low impedance injectors and drivers if I want to run about 7 or 8 PSI everntually?
Thanks, man.
(Anyone else who feels they can hel, please feel free! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> )
I have a 422 now with the D-1SC and 42# Injectors.
Before, with the 346, and 4.10" pulley, I made 5 PSI at ~ 6K RPMs and stock exhaust. Moving to the 3.20" pulley, I made 12 PSI with the stock exhaust; 9.5 to 10 PSI after putting on headers.
(I don't know how many PSI it would have made stock with the headers and 4.10 pulley, since I changed pullies BEFORE I did the header change).
After putting the 4.10" pulley back on for my initial tuning with the 422, I see about 3 PSI at 6000 RPMs.
Questions:
1. Do you think the 42# injectors will handle the 422 and the 3PSI boost level?
2. At what boost level do you think I may get by if I moved to 50# injectors? (I'm thinking with the 422, it may be 7 or 8 PSI with the 3.20" pulley, but I'm guessing. For all I know, it may still be 10 PSI. To do about 7 PSI, I may need the 3.4 or 3.6 pulley.)
3. Do I just need to plan on low impedance injectors and drivers if I want to run about 7 or 8 PSI everntually?
Thanks, man.
Re: *** Paging Harlan *** You need to quit thinking in terms of "psi" and think horsepower. You can calculate how much fuel it takes to make a certain amount of HP. The
ford 42# are good to at least 575 rwhp (dynojet) Harlan pushed them further so he can tell you how high they might go. You will need a stout fuel system to push them tho...good pump(s) wiring etc. You can get more of course going to 50# injectors and someone said some Hi impedance 55# injectors may come out soon. Get an idea on hp you expect and harlan can prolly give u a better idea.
ford 42# are good to at least 575 rwhp (dynojet) Harlan pushed them further so he can tell you how high they might go. You will need a stout fuel system to push them tho...good pump(s) wiring etc. You can get more of course going to 50# injectors and someone said some Hi impedance 55# injectors may come out soon. Get an idea on hp you expect and harlan can prolly give u a better idea.
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From: Houston, TX
Re: *** Paging Harlan *** 422 + blower = 550 rwhp? Um. . .I'd want a LOT more than that. I'd defintely think about getting the biggest injectors you're comfortable with along with a built fuel system. The trick to forced induction is that EVERYTHING has to work in unison. If you find that you need low impedence injectors I believe Harlan came up with a ingenious way of making them work with the stock computer.
- Matt
- Matt
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From: Raleigh, NC
Re: *** Paging Harlan *** Thanks, cablebandit -
I was saying I expect about 550 initially. But, I really don't know. That's why I had a discussion about what boost levels I am/was at and what I expect there... hoping all the info would give someone an idea of the HP level I may make. To do that, it surely should be helpful to know how much boost is there relative to the car just being N/A.
Thanks, man.
I was saying I expect about 550 initially. But, I really don't know. That's why I had a discussion about what boost levels I am/was at and what I expect there... hoping all the info would give someone an idea of the HP level I may make. To do that, it surely should be helpful to know how much boost is there relative to the car just being N/A.
Thanks, man.
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From: Raleigh, NC
Re: *** Paging Harlan *** </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by MelloYellow:
<strong>If money was no object, I'd start with 50# and work my way up.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If money were no object, I'd go straight to lo-impedance 83 or 96 #'ers, buy drivers, sump the fuel system and run a parallel pump, etc. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
I want to get a feel for my ability to run the 422 now with the 3 or 4 PSI and current fuel system, adjusting tuning with LS1-Edit. I don't care if that doesn't net me the 700+ RWHP of the engine, right now... just that I am at least as good as my more risky stock setup was or a bit better... hopefully QUITE a bit better. I know the torque is WAY stronger down low. I know with just the 3 PSI, revs to near 7-grand are effortless... it SEEMS the HP increase is there; I'm just afraid of doing that without fueling.
Heck... I guess I will just have to find out on my own and/or wait on Kenny to get the programming to me. I just wanted to learn and proceed on my own. I wanted to move forward with some more info before I spend buku money at the dyno tuning and testing.
But, Clay is getting attention to his setup even now. I just hate waiting and not doing ANYTHING in hte interim. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" />
Thanks for taking a shot at it, guys. I'll let you know what I find out.
<strong>If money was no object, I'd start with 50# and work my way up.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If money were no object, I'd go straight to lo-impedance 83 or 96 #'ers, buy drivers, sump the fuel system and run a parallel pump, etc. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
I want to get a feel for my ability to run the 422 now with the 3 or 4 PSI and current fuel system, adjusting tuning with LS1-Edit. I don't care if that doesn't net me the 700+ RWHP of the engine, right now... just that I am at least as good as my more risky stock setup was or a bit better... hopefully QUITE a bit better. I know the torque is WAY stronger down low. I know with just the 3 PSI, revs to near 7-grand are effortless... it SEEMS the HP increase is there; I'm just afraid of doing that without fueling.
Heck... I guess I will just have to find out on my own and/or wait on Kenny to get the programming to me. I just wanted to learn and proceed on my own. I wanted to move forward with some more info before I spend buku money at the dyno tuning and testing.
But, Clay is getting attention to his setup even now. I just hate waiting and not doing ANYTHING in hte interim. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" />
Thanks for taking a shot at it, guys. I'll let you know what I find out.
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From: Lake Orion, MI
Re: *** Paging Harlan *** Hey Mike,
The new setup is sounding mighty good. You may have posted this before but I couldn't find it,... what's CR set at on the 422 for htis blower setup?
Rick
The new setup is sounding mighty good. You may have posted this before but I couldn't find it,... what's CR set at on the 422 for htis blower setup?
Rick
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From: Bellevue, Wa
Re: *** Paging Harlan *** Mike,
If I was you I would invest in an in car wide-band. You can tune and tweak to your hearts content and not have to wait for people or schedule dyno time. I know it has helped me immensley having one.
The diy one I have now has been rev'd to version 1.5 and will now log afr/rpm. No reason not to get one.
I follow most of your posts and you have enough smarts to tackle this. Get a wideband, you already have edit and take your 42's as far as they will carry you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
I am sure you will do just fine and once you find the limit of your 42's I think you will have a good idea how much more fuel system you will need to get where you want to be.
<small>[ November 21, 2002, 03:08 PM: Message edited by: Blackbird ]</small>
If I was you I would invest in an in car wide-band. You can tune and tweak to your hearts content and not have to wait for people or schedule dyno time. I know it has helped me immensley having one.
The diy one I have now has been rev'd to version 1.5 and will now log afr/rpm. No reason not to get one.
I follow most of your posts and you have enough smarts to tackle this. Get a wideband, you already have edit and take your 42's as far as they will carry you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
I am sure you will do just fine and once you find the limit of your 42's I think you will have a good idea how much more fuel system you will need to get where you want to be.
<small>[ November 21, 2002, 03:08 PM: Message edited by: Blackbird ]</small>
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From: Raleigh, NC
Re: *** Paging Harlan *** Blackbird, your advice is right-on, of course.
I have a line on an AFR monitor (both O2's) for under $200.00 from a guy that maintains Corvettes. I will likely buy that one from him and give it a try.
Thanks, man!
I have a line on an AFR monitor (both O2's) for under $200.00 from a guy that maintains Corvettes. I will likely buy that one from him and give it a try.
Thanks, man!
Re: *** Paging Harlan *** Judging where you'll be at 3psi is hard to say.
You really need to know how much AIR you're gonna flow to get a better estimate.
a low CR 422 is probably gonna get you in the low 400 RWHP range.
the 42's will get you to 550 safely, but no further. I would bet you'll get damn close to 500 w/ the 422 and a few psi. But, i've not been able to find a compressor map for the D1 to verify.
If it were me, i'd skip right to some fire hose injectors <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
a set of High-Z 50's might get you where you need to be
You really need to set a target power level if you want a reilable fuel delivery system
You really need to know how much AIR you're gonna flow to get a better estimate.
a low CR 422 is probably gonna get you in the low 400 RWHP range.
the 42's will get you to 550 safely, but no further. I would bet you'll get damn close to 500 w/ the 422 and a few psi. But, i've not been able to find a compressor map for the D1 to verify.
If it were me, i'd skip right to some fire hose injectors <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
a set of High-Z 50's might get you where you need to be
You really need to set a target power level if you want a reilable fuel delivery system
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Re: *** Paging Harlan *** Hmmm onwy Hawwan can answew this? Weww wet me see if I can get my simpwe mind going hewe and contwibute <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> fiwst off, why awe you muwtipwying youw dwivetwain woss by .72? Subtwact 18%. Why awe you muwtipwying youw PE tabwe based on injectows? Dat is not wewated. Awe you thinking of VE? If so that is onwy fow speed density and as wong as you wun a maf don't bothew wif that tabwe. I use 42.5 wbews mysewf and hewe is my cawcs. Oh, dat scwewy wabbit! wemembew to subtwact boost pwessuwe when figuwing fuew pwessuwe. I use 6.0 as the injectow fwow wate fwatwined in ws1 edit. At a wowking pwessuwe of 54psi (64psi - 10psi boost) they fwow ~ 47.6 wbs/hw. 47.6*8=380.8 wbs/hw. 380.8/.55= 692FWHP.Yeah you couwd suppowt mowe powew wif a weanew mix of .5 ow even bewow.But don't bank on it. 692-18% woss= awound 568 WWHP. I opewate them awound 85-90% duty cycwe wight now wif a pe muwtipwiew of awound 1.152
Clear as mud?
Clear as mud?
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From: Centrifugal City
Re: *** Paging Harlan *** I know I'm going to get the BS flag raised, but a C5 guy running a H/C D1-SC is using just 50# high impedance and a stock C5 fuel pump. He's putting down 650rwhp. Stock MAF electronics I believe. '02 Z06.
I think it's suicidal with the stock pump, but the injectors flow. Explaining the MAF, he is probably tuned FAT at 64lbs/min and leans that mixture out as air flows past that. But tuning via dyno his fat 64lbs arrives at an ok 70lbs as the air leans things out I guess.
Just to point out the 50# injectors I've seen used. Am ordering them myself. Delphi. Supposedly very linear and easy to tune with.
Anyone want to compare stock C5 vs. F-Body fuel pumps? I know there is a secondary jet pump, but I think it's useless other than for moving gas between the 2 C5 tanks. Are we the same?
Am putting in an LPE Walbro 340 here. Will add voltage boosting if necessary. Finally have the $. Was waiting on the Vortech, but I hear the V2-SQ is noisy and am back for the D1-SC now. Dammit.. just ordered V2 SQ license plates.. Plus they had a design problem with the 99-00 C5 kits. ABS in the way.
I think it's suicidal with the stock pump, but the injectors flow. Explaining the MAF, he is probably tuned FAT at 64lbs/min and leans that mixture out as air flows past that. But tuning via dyno his fat 64lbs arrives at an ok 70lbs as the air leans things out I guess.
Just to point out the 50# injectors I've seen used. Am ordering them myself. Delphi. Supposedly very linear and easy to tune with.
Anyone want to compare stock C5 vs. F-Body fuel pumps? I know there is a secondary jet pump, but I think it's useless other than for moving gas between the 2 C5 tanks. Are we the same?
Am putting in an LPE Walbro 340 here. Will add voltage boosting if necessary. Finally have the $. Was waiting on the Vortech, but I hear the V2-SQ is noisy and am back for the D1-SC now. Dammit.. just ordered V2 SQ license plates.. Plus they had a design problem with the 99-00 C5 kits. ABS in the way.
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From: Raleigh, NC
Re: *** Paging Harlan *** </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by SJH:
<strong>Hmmm onwy Hawwan can answew this? Weww wet me see if I can get my simpwe mind going hewe and contwibute <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> fiwst off, why awe you muwtipwying youw dwivetwain woss by .72? Subtwact 18%. Why awe you muwtipwying youw PE tabwe based on injectows? Dat is not wewated. Awe you thinking of VE? If so that is onwy fow speed density and as wong as you wun a maf don't bothew wif that tabwe. I use 42.5 wbews mysewf and hewe is my cawcs. Oh, dat scwewy wabbit! wemembew to subtwact boost pwessuwe when figuwing fuew pwessuwe. I use 6.0 as the injectow fwow wate fwatwined in ws1 edit. At a wowking pwessuwe of 54psi (64psi - 10psi boost) they fwow ~ 47.6 wbs/hw. 47.6*8=380.8 wbs/hw. 380.8/.55= 692FWHP.Yeah you couwd suppowt mowe powew wif a weanew mix of .5 ow even bewow.But don't bank on it. 692-18% woss= awound 568 WWHP. I opewate them awound 85-90% duty cycwe wight now wif a pe muwtipwiew of awound 1.152
Clear as mud?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><img border="0" alt="[hail]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_hail.gif" /> Master of the mud! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
<strong>Hmmm onwy Hawwan can answew this? Weww wet me see if I can get my simpwe mind going hewe and contwibute <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> fiwst off, why awe you muwtipwying youw dwivetwain woss by .72? Subtwact 18%. Why awe you muwtipwying youw PE tabwe based on injectows? Dat is not wewated. Awe you thinking of VE? If so that is onwy fow speed density and as wong as you wun a maf don't bothew wif that tabwe. I use 42.5 wbews mysewf and hewe is my cawcs. Oh, dat scwewy wabbit! wemembew to subtwact boost pwessuwe when figuwing fuew pwessuwe. I use 6.0 as the injectow fwow wate fwatwined in ws1 edit. At a wowking pwessuwe of 54psi (64psi - 10psi boost) they fwow ~ 47.6 wbs/hw. 47.6*8=380.8 wbs/hw. 380.8/.55= 692FWHP.Yeah you couwd suppowt mowe powew wif a weanew mix of .5 ow even bewow.But don't bank on it. 692-18% woss= awound 568 WWHP. I opewate them awound 85-90% duty cycwe wight now wif a pe muwtipwiew of awound 1.152
Clear as mud?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><img border="0" alt="[hail]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_hail.gif" /> Master of the mud! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
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From: Raleigh, NC
Re: *** Paging Harlan *** So my stupid post would not confuse anyone, I removed it. Nothing like calcs that go no where. <img border="0" alt="[barf]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_barf.gif" />
Besides, yours is a classic explanation and stands on it's on. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
I did mean to multiply .82 X the Flywheel HP to get a value of minus 18% parasitic losses. Chalk it all up to too many hours of work. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="gr_emb.gif" />
Besides, yours is a classic explanation and stands on it's on. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
I did mean to multiply .82 X the Flywheel HP to get a value of minus 18% parasitic losses. Chalk it all up to too many hours of work. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="gr_emb.gif" />
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Re: *** Paging Harlan *** Originally posted by SJH:
Hmmm onwy Hawwan can answew this? Weww wet me see if I can get my simpwe mind going hewe and contwibute fiwst off, why awe you muwtipwying youw dwivetwain woss by .72? Subtwact 18%. Why awe you muwtipwying youw PE tabwe based on injectows? Dat is not wewated. Awe you thinking of VE? If so that is onwy fow speed density and as wong as you wun a maf don't bothew wif that tabwe. I use 42.5 wbews mysewf and hewe is my cawcs. Oh, dat scwewy wabbit! wemembew to subtwact boost pwessuwe when figuwing fuew pwessuwe. I use 6.0 as the injectow fwow wate fwatwined in ws1 edit. At a wowking pwessuwe of 54psi (64psi - 10psi boost) they fwow ~ 47.6 wbs/hw. 47.6*8=380.8 wbs/hw. 380.8/.55= 692FWHP.Yeah you couwd suppowt mowe powew wif a weanew mix of .5 ow even bewow.But don't bank on it. 692-18% woss= awound 568 WWHP. I opewate them awound 85-90% duty cycwe wight now wif a pe muwtipwiew of awound 1.152
Clear as mud?
how long did it take you to type that?
Hmmm onwy Hawwan can answew this? Weww wet me see if I can get my simpwe mind going hewe and contwibute fiwst off, why awe you muwtipwying youw dwivetwain woss by .72? Subtwact 18%. Why awe you muwtipwying youw PE tabwe based on injectows? Dat is not wewated. Awe you thinking of VE? If so that is onwy fow speed density and as wong as you wun a maf don't bothew wif that tabwe. I use 42.5 wbews mysewf and hewe is my cawcs. Oh, dat scwewy wabbit! wemembew to subtwact boost pwessuwe when figuwing fuew pwessuwe. I use 6.0 as the injectow fwow wate fwatwined in ws1 edit. At a wowking pwessuwe of 54psi (64psi - 10psi boost) they fwow ~ 47.6 wbs/hw. 47.6*8=380.8 wbs/hw. 380.8/.55= 692FWHP.Yeah you couwd suppowt mowe powew wif a weanew mix of .5 ow even bewow.But don't bank on it. 692-18% woss= awound 568 WWHP. I opewate them awound 85-90% duty cycwe wight now wif a pe muwtipwiew of awound 1.152
Clear as mud?
how long did it take you to type that?
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Re: *** Paging Harlan *** ****, it took 15 minutes just to read it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" />