I know its kind of along shot, but is anyone running their boosted setup on strictly E85? The stuff is ~103 octane, and I can get it very easily locally. The thing with E85 is that there are ~80% as many BTU's per gallon as there are wtih gas, so you will end up using a lot more fuel. Im curious to how the tuning would be different for this? Would you still tune it for ~11.5-12:1 like you would a car that runs on 93? Or would you tune it to a lower A/F ratio because it is dominantly alcohol?

 

Yes me but its not a LS1... Its a mitsu turbo... Its closer to 106 octane but the latent heat of vaporization is alot higher so it acts alot higher than 106 gas... Lets put it this way.. The pump said $1.69 a gallon.. My fuel gauge said full and the boost gauge read 30psi without timing getting pulled...

On a Ls your best off getting the injectors, fuel rail etc... from a FFV truck...

I'm sorry to say search... I dont want to go thru the whole technical aspects of running it again..

My next trick.... 69 camaro will be years in the working..... so mean while a 4wd shortbox with prerunner suspension and a LS1 with twin GT40s being fed E85.... Gotta do something with the 6.0 block and turbos since they are'nt going to be the ones going in the camaro...

 

Interesting. I have read all different things on the octane reading of it, personally it checked out to be ~103-104 here at school. (we do a lot of EPA testing) I knew it would be awesome for boost, what A/F ratio did you tune it for on the wideband? I would definitely upgrade to different fuel rails if I go the direction, but injectors are a whole different ball game. I will need 60 lb or greater.

 

There is a place an hour or so away from me where i can get this. The guys on Turbomustangs are raving about it. Some 95 GT just made 1066rwhp on E85 alone with 30psi. I would love to get away from using Methanol.
I know it would be a lot of tuning and i will need more fuel system, but does anyone know if i can run straight E85 in my stock tank and will the fuel pump seals/lines/etc. survive?

Thanks

 

Yep.. I make about 650 or so.... so at the wheels with 1/2 as many cyls I have 1/2 the wheel hp.... Atleast AWD hooks up more consistently..

 

http://www.turbomustangs.com/smf/ind...?topic=47094.0

Benefits:
It has a motor octane rating of 104-108, it is also quite cold to the touch. It is currently about 1.99 per gallon, while 91 Octane is approximately 3.30 a gallon. E85 is cleaner burning, emitting a lot less greenhouse gasses. It is also a renewable resource. To top it off it is made 100% within the confines of the USA.

Cons:
It takes more of this fuel to create the same energy as regular gasoline. Therefore your car will use more fuel and you will see a decrease of approximately 10-15% in fuel economy. To make big horsepower you will need more fuel pump and more injector. Many people state that the fuel is corrosive and it could have adverse effects on aluminum fuel rails, injector o-rings and fuel lines. But so far in 9 months of testing we have seen no such side effects.

Test Car
1995 Mustang GT street car, 331 cubic inch, custom twin turbo system with twin T70 p-trims w/ .58 AR, T56 tranny, solid roller: 242/236, .600 lift.
Fuel System: 3, 255lph Walbro in line fuel pumps, 160# injectors.
No alky, no nitrous, no ice on the intake, etc.

The first thing we did was add 40% fuel to the fuel map under WOT. We also added about 20% fuel in part throttle areas. We were tuning using a regular gasoline wideband air fuel ratio of 14:1 at part throttle. On the dyno the car made the best and cleanest power at 12:1.

At 6 psi of boost and 35 degrees total timing the car made 575rwhp from 6000rpm until 7500rpm. The power never fell off. We tried less timing but the car didn’t respond well and the power curve was sloppier. At 13psi and about 29 degrees of timing we made 872rwhp. At 20psi and ~24 degrees of timing we made 989rwhp.
At 30 psi and 20 degrees of timing we ended up with 1066rwhp. The fuel injectors were at 75% duty cycle at this power level. Whereas with gasoline they were at about 55%. The fuel pressure was also slightly falling off at the top. The lack of a large power increase from 20-30psi is due to the tiny exhaust housings on this street car.

 

Yep... You can run alot more timing and or boost... depending. On things like IC efficiency, turbo efficiency cr etc... I know at the max timing point on the map I was like 10 degrees more advanced....


https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...hlight=Ethanol

https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...hlight=Ethanol

 

I'm glad to hear some more people are experimenting with E85. There are a few issues with using it, but nothing too bad. Personally, I can't wait until we start using it much more often. Screw these oil princes overseas...
Anyway, stoich for E85 is more like 9.8:1, so you'll need to design your fuel system based on the fact it will need to deliver 50% more volume of fuel. On top of the btu/volume deal, MOST FlexFuel vehicles only hit between 77-80% of the economy of unleaded gasoline. Ethanol is corrosive to rubber and aluminum, so you'd need to have aluminum parts annodized, and fuel system gaskets replaced with viton. The tank would probably need to be lined, and you'd need a HIGH volume fuel pump rated for alcohol. Also, You'll need to change your O2 sensors to a set designed to switch at the new stoich ratio. And of course, a full retune will be in order... I believe it's harder to light an alcohol/air mixture in cold weather (from what old drag racers told me), but with fuel injection/management it shouldn't be as much of a problem any more. There's tons of info on the net about E85 engines, and I'm sure a lot of tuners/builders know about how to make alky motors run. I hope this helps

 

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/show...light=E85+math

Quoting self!


sAFR = (%ofAdditive * sAFRadditive + (100-%ofAdditive) * sAFRgas) /100


Also this is a simpler way..
Take E85 for example..

Ethanol stoich 9:1 Gas 14.7

sAFR = .85 x 9 + .15 x 14.7
sAFR = 9.855



And for calculating from a known 12.5 FAR to what you would need to run with a blend...
Again E85 as an example..

FAR= (12.5/14.7 ) x 9.855
FAR= 8.380

There you go how to compenate for E10 thru E98... Just do the math..

 

I hear not to run it because it is meant to run at altitudes of planes/jets and will not be good for your motor long term.

 

It is very good for use at high altitudes because the molecular chain of Ethanol carries an oxygen atom with it. So it doesn't need to draw as much oxygen from the air for combustion. Thus, the lower air/fuel ratio. However, it is still a great alternative fuel in a time where this nation would fold in 30 days if we were cut off from our oil supplies.

 

It is still a far better air fuel ratio than methanol and alot easier on the fuel system..

It will also make more power than gasoline.. We just need to burn more of it.

As for the other poster.. Sometimes people inject oxygen into their engines then have to burn more fuel to offset it.. Yep ppl hitting the N2o bottle.

Alcohol consumes alot of heat in order to evaporate.. It also brings extra o2 into the motor...

Therefore the extra oxygen is good...



Its all chemistry.... Gasoline will eat some chemicals..

Its so easy to ethanol proof a fuel system. Methanol is alot harder and more upkeep...

 

Good info guys, thanks. Im going to keep researching it and probably call a few shops to see what they have to say about tuning it, what to do for the fuel system, etc.

 

All you have to do is read my links....

 

I was under the impression that shortband O2 sensors output ~ .45 V at stoichiometric. Stoichiometric is complete combustion without leftover oxygen, so why does it matter which fuel is used? Help me understand this. And if new O2 sensors are needed, who sells them?
Thanks.

 

Right.. Once again reading my previous post would have covered that...

Its narrowband o2....

Rich is still rich, lean is still lean.. Stoich still stoich. A o2 sensor does'nt care it just counts oxygen molecules..

I would still get a good wideband 02 sensor no matter what fuel unless your some hillbilly who still thinks lead is the shizzle...

Actually being able to read a tune at WOT is priceless...

 

Agreed, I think a wideband 02 is a necessity for a boosted setup if you want it to live long. I will be monitoring mine whenever I am in boost.

 

Get a stand alone and set it up in closed loop with a target air fuel ratio table..

Fire and forget as it will tune itself...

 

Cant afford BS3, FAST, or any other stand alone. Ill be using the stock computer.

 

We cant get E85 in New England.