turbo kit do i want the ground zero log style
12-14-2005, 08:37 AM
#21
SOmetimes people just want a nice simple street kit. $4400 is too bad. price will keep going up if you want more ocmplicated tubular headers. Why do you thing the PTK and Speedinc (TTI race kit) is so expensive? Alot harder to make. I am sure you are aware of this, just wanted to make it a point. Some people will be happy with 500-600rwhp, some wont.
How much more power would a system make if it had two logs that merge at the T4 flange rather than one running thru the other?
How much more power would a system make if it had two logs that merge at the T4 flange rather than one running thru the other?
12-14-2005, 09:24 AM
#24
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Originally Posted by RealQuick
when you say alot more, are we talking 50rwhp or 100rwhp given the exact same combo (lets say a 383 with T76), just different hotpipe routing?
Still the best single turbo LS1 kit I have ever seen... I'd change the heat exchanger (wearing electric fan) and the water pump to something controlled smarter and of higher capacity... Other than that the best I have seen.
TTI is nice
You do have to use different AC compressor mount brackets and relocate but that is a small price to pay..
Last edited by V8_DSM_V8again; 12-14-2005 at 09:31 AM.
12-14-2005, 09:37 AM
#26
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Originally Posted by Pro Stock John
V8_dsm, why don't you post pics of the turbo setups you have done, then we can see how you like to set stuff like that up.
Some stuff I'll show.... Some ideas....nope....
12-14-2005, 09:43 AM
#27
i wanted something better so i did my own system.
that kit is a quick bolt on kit, cheap, you add more stuff that it has to do the cost will definatly go up then you just lost your market you were trying to go for.
they did a desent job with getting a tangental turbo, as the other companies havent done, thats a desent improvement.
that kit is a quick bolt on kit, cheap, you add more stuff that it has to do the cost will definatly go up then you just lost your market you were trying to go for.
they did a desent job with getting a tangental turbo, as the other companies havent done, thats a desent improvement.
12-14-2005, 09:44 AM
#28
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Well you posted a pic of a Honda I4 turbo setup that was on a engine stand. I was not sure if you had built that or ??? Our car's engine bays are pretty restrictive when you elect to keep a/c, p/s, abs, and other street car amenities.
12-14-2005, 09:56 AM
#29
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Originally Posted by Pro Stock John
Well you posted a pic of a Honda I4 turbo setup that was on a engine stand. I was not sure if you had built that or ??? Our car's engine bays are pretty restrictive when you elect to keep a/c, p/s, abs, and other street car amenities.
A Mitsu/DSM engine...
While I have built headers... On my DSM I just took a production Evolution cast manifold then ported and extrude honed it... Then insulated the turbine housing and downpipe up to the flex joint.
I also run a internal gate.. I am allergic to low boost anyway and have a high flowing downpipe and exhaust.. I have rock solid control with a internal gate..
There are ported stock manis into the 9's and on RWD tube cars... even 7's some have internal gates still (PTE).
I have worked on F-bodies.... I just feel where there is a will there is a way...
That TTI kit is nice and there are always ways to relocate accessories as needed.. Easy ways with all the different LSX gen engine configurations options for acc bracketry...
There are a couple local cars that are interested in getting some time next to my welder and roll cab...
Since its our snow, snow and freeze your *** off time of year these guys have them in storage and are gathering parts as they can..
The coolest thing we came up with was running a GM boost controll solenoid from a SyTy on a AEM equipped car to do boost controll...
Then we came up with our own power transistor based fuel pump voltage controller driven by A AEM PWM (pulse width modulation) output.. Kind of like a injector driver like output but lower current... Its the same type of ECU output the GM boost controll uses.
That inspired us to do the same type of electronic black box for the A2W electric pump controller...
So it actually can monitor IAT (Intake air temp) since its a blow thru MAF (GM MAF sensor) and speed up the A2W water pump as needed!
Last edited by V8_DSM_V8again; 12-14-2005 at 10:12 AM.
12-14-2005, 12:15 PM
#30
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Originally Posted by V8_DSM_V8again
Those are ok...
Still better than SS autochrome...
Still better than SS autochrome...
Trust me, we have those manifolds you have pictured. Even ones made by JIC Magic which are suppose to be the highest quality are junk as far as I'm concerned. We can't sell those manifolds out of the shop because we can't warrantee them.
12-14-2005, 01:14 PM
#31
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Originally Posted by GroundZero
You got to be kidding me. The pics of your manifolds are ones made in China, and you say our manifolds are "ok". The manifolds I have pictured are the same manifolds that power 700whp+ 4 cylinders.
Trust me, we have those manifolds you have pictured. Even ones made by JIC Magic which are suppose to be the highest quality are junk as far as I'm concerned. We can't sell those manifolds out of the shop because we can't warrantee them.
Trust me, we have those manifolds you have pictured. Even ones made by JIC Magic which are suppose to be the highest quality are junk as far as I'm concerned. We can't sell those manifolds out of the shop because we can't warrantee them.
I know DN performance.. SS autochomos etc have had their problems... Honestly on the import side I tell people that a tubular manifold is the last thing they need...
8 sec car Stock cast iron just ported..
http://www.buschurracing.com/racing-conquest.htm
BR ported 2G exhaust manifold...
A slightly modified stock manifold will work on a 700+ hp car..
A manifold does'nt really power anything anyway.
Anything that I have personally welded has been constructed from components from kooks, burns stainless or stainlessheaders.com...
Just the slip fit merge collectors I use cost more than many of those manifolds. I always use slips..
I have never had a weld fail on my motor x bike exhaust... Jumps, crashes, vibration, hot exhaust and cold mud puddles... Sometimes a little give makes things stronger.. Slip joints work.
The whole point of posting the DN manifolds was not quality or anything.. A shiny turd is still a turd.. But that even in cramped compartments there are still things you can do.
Know what gyroscopic precession is? I do.. I have to know... Find the definition if you want it may give you a clue about what I work with...
I was taught how to TIG weld by a Aerospace welder..
Also the last time I made a log I flushed afterwards...
I am fabricating tri-y style turbo headers for the truck and the camaro will be getting a T4 twin scroll style header... Using double slips on the ends of the primaries and a strong support bracket keeping the weight of the turbo off the manifold..
12-14-2005, 01:18 PM
#32
The Ground Zero kit will work out great for you.You do not need a BS3 -the stock computer will do just fine 
When are people going to relieze that not everyone want's to build a kit.Some people don't have the tools/know how to do it.Some people it is not worth there time to do one either.This is what keep's bussinesses with work.
When are people going to relieze that not everyone want's to build a kit.Some people don't have the tools/know how to do it.Some people it is not worth there time to do one either.This is what keep's bussinesses with work.
12-14-2005, 01:28 PM
#33
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Originally Posted by Slowhawk
When are people going to relieze that not everyone want's to build a kit.Some people don't have the tools/know how to do it.Some people it is not worth there time to do one either.This is what keep's bussinesses with work.
If I could'nt weld and was going to do a single turbo I'd go with the TTI Kit..
Now that I have had e-conversations with both companies.. I know which one I'd even have do a turn key install... that is if I did'nt prefer to do my own work...
Last edited by V8_DSM_V8again; 12-14-2005 at 01:55 PM.
12-14-2005, 02:02 PM
#35
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v8dsm, no flames, but you are coming across as a know-it-all with nothing to back it up except words. You can dog the GZ kit but it's one of the few solutions that allows the user to retain A/C.
12-14-2005, 02:36 PM
#36
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Originally Posted by Pro Stock John
v8dsm, no flames, but you are coming across as a know-it-all with nothing to back it up except words. You can dog the GZ kit but it's one of the few solutions that allows the user to retain A/C.
I seriously have seen alot of problems with tubular exhaust manifold failures.
Its not a GZ only issue... As I have seen every brand of tubular aftermarket manifold have failures.. Some very few and some alot of cracks. The worst offenders I have seen entire external wastegates FALL right off. No matter how thick the material the log manifold will only last so long.. Could be years. however it will eventually fatigue as the logs expansion and contraction is VERY hard on the runner welds. I have seen even thick 4-1 manifolds break.
A turbo manifold/header can go from close to ambiant air temperature to cherry red pretty quick. Things like that why I actually run cast manifolds wherever posible on turbo cars.. Even they are prone to cracking on occasion with some car models and or casting #s being worse than others.
When I use a tubular system I always include slip joints so it can give instead of break. Its like expansion joints on concrete.. Give it some give and take and it will last if not it will pop.
Maybe look at my post on complimenting NA$TY-TA on the headers stenod built for his car...
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...3&page=1&pp=20
I know I can get a pipe around the AC compressor.. It will just take a header alot shorter so that the colector section is well aft of it. It is pretty damn tight.. I just object to the concept of it being impossible..
Last edited by V8_DSM_V8again; 12-14-2005 at 02:55 PM.
12-14-2005, 05:04 PM
#37
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Their kit works, where's your kit? Again, you are quick to jump on them even though your stuff is secret.... 
I have seen any welded manifold fail at the welds, for some it's happened often, some never... must be the quality of the welds and the material being used for the headers.
I have seen any welded manifold fail at the welds, for some it's happened often, some never... must be the quality of the welds and the material being used for the headers.
12-14-2005, 06:09 PM
#39
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Well this kit is nice but there is a few things needed to be worked out with it. i will post when done with the install i have the 1st production kit right in front of me so you want numbers i will give you some in about 2 weeks. i got tons of pics but when the car is done i will post it all. like i said it is trial and error right now so i wont say how the final out come may be!
12-14-2005, 06:13 PM
#40
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Originally Posted by Pro Stock John
Their kit works, where's your kit? Again, you are quick to jump on them even though your stuff is secret.... .
.The next will probably be swaping a L98 out of a 92 vette in favor of a single turbo LSX engine..
Originally Posted by Pro Stock John
I have seen any welded manifold fail at the welds, for some it's happened often, some never... must be the quality of the welds and the material being used for the headers.
Smokinhawk had a TTI... Crack...
I used search and found examples of problems such as cracking with alot of different systems. None of them are perfect.
However all things being equal... As in the material and welds being the same a header manifold will be more durable and perform better..
Each kit has its own pros and cons.. Both the TTi and the GZ kit could stand to gain the use of flex sections like Stenod is using.
I think competion is a good thing with these kits and performance shops...
The harder they have to compete with one another the better the systems get.
I think its important to be able to point out the pros and cons of each option and look at possible areas of improvement.