engineermike

Well, for starters, nobody really knows what a turbo cam is supposed to look like. I have not yet seen ANYONE spend the time and money it takes to truly optimize a turbo cam, so why would I do it solely for a turbo versus supercharger comparison?

Frost

iTrader: (45)

...in order to add more validity and worth to the numbers coming from your 'experiment'.

MTBDOC

iTrader: (1)

Having built my first turbocharged car in 1985, I had some real doubts when I first heard about the STS kits last spring. I had decided to buy a GTO after the ford dealers were price gouging on the new mustangs, and KNEW I'd be looking for more HP for the Goat.

Started reading on LS1GTO.com about the STS cars. Read over here. Put on my thinking cap. Looked at the issue of underhood heat on the goats. Tried to contact Jose but didn't hear back [STS probably had W & the feds intercept that email] as I live in Birmingham. Didn't want a procharger because I wanted better midrange power. And Kenne Bell clearly wasn't going to step up to the plate.

So, I had some emails w/ STS, and they agreed to work with me to do the first LS2 with a rear-mount system. They have been very responsive as I was discovering the differences in the '05 vs. '04 exhaust, maf, throttle body, etc.

Thoughts: the system is a compromise, as virtually EVERYTHING in life involves a compromise. The length of the exhaust pipe before the turbo [and the cooling it experiences] will naturally slow down the response time of the turbo. A smaller A/R helps. The lag is most noticeable is when you first get into it as there is a slight bit of hesitation...but NOTHING like my wife's WRX, as a comparison! And once it is spooled and the plumbing is hot, the return to boost is instanteous on shifts [M6 tranny]. Some here have removed cats and found quicker spool, and we have discussed whether or not that a heat wrap would help.

The plus side is that the intake charge is MUCH cooler than a comparable front mount system, and if you look at the actual volume of the intake piping, it is a negligible amount [calculate how many cubic feet live in that pipe, and divide that into cfm...very small amount of time!]. The underhood heat is no problem in this car. The intake air is cool. Much easier installation.

And is sounds scary when you blast by someone!!!

Perfect? No. But I find it to be an effective compromise and a great addition to a TRUE daily driver car [in rush hour traffic and whatever else], especially in a car that is really a high end 'gran touring' car [as opposed to a muscle car].

Front mount...love 'em. I am seriously considering a more traditional setup on a 65 Mustang fastback I have sitting in the garage, and will likely talk to Jose about that car...adapt some PTK plumbing to fit the available space? That car will be set up with a full cage and road course suspension for open tracking...with a few runs at the strip at some point.

The automatic-equpped STS goats have certainly shredded some 1/4's...build that boost [brakes vs torque converter], get enough sticky rubber and proper suspension to hook up, and blast off!

BTW: in a severely traction limited first trip to the 1/4, car went 12.3/119 @ 7psi. VERY hard to get it rolling due to track conditions...and actually, more instant boost would have likely made launch even harder! This car was never designed to be a drag car [M6; suspension more of a "handling" setup; and 19" wheels won't provide the necessary traction, especially w/ IRS in a 3900# car (including a very nice custom sound system and sound deadening= MORE weight)]. Out on the open road, the car is a joy to behold.

PurEvl

iTrader: (2)

jose dont be mad because carteks sts version on there vette went 9.3 and proven on video...its ok a rear mount is faster then almost all your cars...although the hear say about you systems is exceptional...I would sooner expect a video of space people then a ptk kit at the track or a dyno at your shop. And shave your ***

Oh an heres your kit in all its might 8psi and 420hp...by 4k, not exactly blowing anyones skirt up, but im sure you have an excuse...theres lot of sts cars making 500rwhp by 4k...but we know...they suck blah blah blah. I mean I dont even have one anymore...why bother right

Frost

iTrader: (45)

JZ 97 SS 1500

iTrader: (2)

Well I was waiting on you....about time you responded. Now just imagine if that cartek vette had a front mount. . Plus you might want to read up on the corvette forum about that car .

BTW, I thought that picture was you holding the kit to your mouth....

Also the kit mentioned above is having tuning problems...not the kits fault. We both know which setup makes more power.....if it didn't why isn't that T88 of yours hanging from the rear

I think the old cliche is (Practice what you preach)....

As always broh, great fun posting with you.....


Jose

JZ 97 SS 1500

iTrader: (2)

Oh and one last tidbit..... Here is one of my customers and good pal....in....

OH NO, whats this.............. a PTK kit at the track. First time down the strip with his home tuning, 93 octane, full street trim...etc . This car would flat dust the cartek vette with race fuel, skinnies, and timing....lol. You see, our street cars run what the others Race cars run....lol

http://www.nick.neptune.com


Look out the window...you might see some green people walking around

PurEvl

iTrader: (2)

blah blah blah...woulda shoulda coulda but hasnt...and if the 88 would fit i would hang it back there just to **** you off. And the kit above is not having tuning problems, its having OVER boost problems and its still making mediocre power. So you guys must be living the high life with YOUR one proven kit. Sts is lauighing all the way to the bank blowose

JZ 97 SS 1500

iTrader: (2)

Losing battle son.......check out PTK's website. When a rear mount kit powers a car to 6.8's@200+ on a 10.5" tire, then post . BTW, the 402 with the S88 is going in a GTO . We have many cars going stupid fast, not just 3 or 4 at best....lol.

JZ 97 SS 1500

iTrader: (2)

Get some 26" rims and a lift kit and it will

detroit_903

iTrader: (8)

Rear mounted vs Under hood mounted turbocharger - I really would like to see to cars running similar boost with similar mods go at it. I have the STS kit on my camaro and it pulls very strong. I already beat supercharged cobras already just on 5psi on the street. These kit's are no joke they make serious power and torque. I would really like to race one heads up to see the difference

PurEvl

iTrader: (2)

dont tempt me

JZ 97 SS 1500

iTrader: (2)

Ragnadude

I don't have any regrets.

I'm majoring in physiology with a minor in physics, & I'm perfectly aware of the arguments against the STS kit. As far as optimization is concerned, a front mount kit is better - but there are other benefits to a remote mount that have been largely ignored. The STS kit isn't inaffective by any means, although it certainly isn't there for guys who want 7 second runs. I said it in another thread: it's about what kind of results you're looking for. I got my kit for under 3 K & I got the works (bov, ebc, methanol, turbo upgrade) for under 4K for everything total & a relatively simple install. I'm hoping for nearly 700 ft lbs. with a near maxed application.

I'm not a speed addict, I'm a car enthusiast. I don't want to be so fast that I cook engine components. My goal is and was 10 seconds. This is perfectly reasonable given my setup (and considering I have an LT1). I'm not working to be the fastest guy at the track.

On a secondary note, whoever said that the STS kit is 'not done right' has little regard for engineering ingenuity. It's a two pronged insult: first of all, any issues with the system stem from a conceited value judgment concerning what a turbo system SHOULD BE. This is pompous nonsense - tell me, exactly, how an STS fails to do what it's supposed to do? These kits make damn fine power. Secondly such statements don't take into account the financial restraints many of us (like college students working toward grad school) have to live within as well as the goals they have.

In any case, I don't think my 2 bolt short block is gonna be handling much more than the power level I'll be at with STS, so I'm right at where I want to be.

longrange4u

iTrader: (2)

Ok, Ok... I will admit I am only running 607RWHP with my STS on a stock block... A front mount is more efficent by design. But I can do one thing that 90% of front mounters cant... I drive my TA for 2 hours down to the track.. jamming to my music with my AC on the whole way... I race... beat most... then drive back again doing the same. This summer when I go with the new setup.... I plan to do the exact same but with an 850+RWHP STS setup... run 9's and still enjoy my AC on the way home.

96lt1m6

iTrader: (31)

thats what a real street car should be able to do!

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

and nobody else on the planet has been able to do that b4 u???i gaurantee u more than 10% of front turbo owners can do that.Thats exactly what others w front mounts have done already.Ill be doing the same thing w my front mount and downpipe that goes THROUGH the K member,just with a bit more hp.You are presuming that all front mount owners are race cars and none keep all accessories.Might want think a bit more b4 u make a post like that.

engineermike

It's already been done. See earlier posts. Mod for mod, front mount wins. Most don't doubt that.

And, yes, there are fast STS cars out there. There are also fast Civic's, fast cars with stock heads, fast cars with stock cams. . . that doesn't mean that it's the best way to do it.

A car can be fast because of a component, or in spite of it.

longrange4u

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the advice on the proper method of posting.

Ok question for the folks other then the cheerleaders...

JZ, Pure, anyone else with an educated opinion will be appreciated not trying to jack the thread.. I think it is relevent:

The right turbo for a 408 App being used in an STS setup. What would be the ideal A/R and turbo size. Could an STS not compensate for the later spool and smaller A/R with a larger turbo? I am sure that there are some limits to space... but in your opinion what is the most efficent turbo with the nessessary A/R for a 408 Cube motor? You laugh about hanging an 88 from the rear, but what are the real limits?

Thanks gents... trying to learn here... I am a realist and I understand the advantages of a front mount. I choose to use a rear mount STS... now I would like help maxing it out and seeing the 9's.

engineermike

Tell you what: I'll give you a list of 6 camshafts to try with your turbo set up. You buy them, install them, and dyno them one at a time. Let everyone know the results and you'll be the first to "optimize" your turbo camshaft.

Why would I go through all this trouble when my turbo made more power than my supercharger even with the supercharger cam??? Then again, I didn't optimize the supercharger cam either. Oh crap, guess I gotta put the T-trim back on there and try a few cams with it first. . . What's the point? I got 30 hp more with a turbo over a supercharger so my point is proven.

Mike