help me call BS on this...
Originally Posted by bboyferal
About the $$$, the BMW tax on the performance market is absolutely disgusting. I wanted to do some bolt-ons/mild stuff to mine, but decided it'd be better spent on my TA.
Takes a lot to develop a kit of this nature... A LOT. There aren't a whole lot of people who can tune the cars for one. Even fewer that can crack into the DMEs of these cars succesfully. It takes quite a bit of time, and knowledge.
They are expensive to begin with, so that factors in as well. Everybody in the performance industry wants to tap into where the big money is. That's just the nature of business.
I would never throw money at a 325... You've got/will have a fast car soon enough. Enjoy the 325 for what it is. Although, they sure are fun with full suspension.
I have some trouble believing you can double the HP (they show way more than double) of a motor with 13.5psi. The math just doesn't add up. Even if the boost was introduced with zero efficiency loss from driving the turbo, 13.5 psi is less than double atmospheric pressure which = less than double HP.
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From: Norn Iron
Originally Posted by gametech
I have some trouble believing you can double the HP (they show way more than double) of a motor with 13.5psi. The math just doesn't add up. Even if the boost was introduced with zero efficiency loss from driving the turbo, 13.5 psi is less than double atmospheric pressure which = less than double HP.
Some LS1's make low 300's, whereas others make 400, and that pretty much down to how its tuned from the factory.
A Euro spec M3 has circa 360bhp, and it revs like crazy. You cannot compare VE's of a 2 valve low revving motor, to those of a high revving 4v motor.
Just look at motorbikes. 1000cc motorbikes that make say 150-180bhp....
Boost and cubes arent the only way to make power. Why do you think F1 cars rev to around 20,000rpm. They make 750-800bhp+ from only 3.0 engines.
I'm not comparing that motor to anything other than itsself. It would have to be horibbly tuned, with a restrictive intake and exhaust on the stock pull they show in order for the turbo kit to more than double that engine's power at 13.5psi.
edit- I just looked more closely at the dyno notes, which are not the same as the write-up above the graphs. The dyno sheet says 15psi, not 13.5. Also the turbo runs were in more favorable conditions than the stock run. Maybe not bs, but definitely a misleading write-up.
edit- I just looked more closely at the dyno notes, which are not the same as the write-up above the graphs. The dyno sheet says 15psi, not 13.5. Also the turbo runs were in more favorable conditions than the stock run. Maybe not bs, but definitely a misleading write-up.
Last edited by gametech; Feb 7, 2007 at 07:18 PM.
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From: Norn Iron
Originally Posted by gametech
I'm not comparing that motor to anything other than itsself. It would have to be horibbly tuned, with a restrictive intake and exhaust on the stock pull they show
Would I be wrong ?
Lots of US spec cars are very different to their UK/Euro counterparts. Even the old M3 ( or Z3 Roadster/Coupe thing ) had only around 240bhp in the US. Here in the UK, both cars had 320bhp, different intakes, exhaust, and no doubt many other items.
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PSI is just pressure, it doesnt mean its the airflow... in a large diameter pipe the PSI may be less, but the airflow would be equal to a smaller pipe with the same flow, but the psi reading would be higher... I think.
Originally Posted by BAD *** TA WS6
Takes a lot to develop a kit of this nature... A LOT. There aren't a whole lot of people who can tune the cars for one. Even fewer that can crack into the DMEs of these cars succesfully. It takes quite a bit of time, and knowledge.
They are expensive to begin with, so that factors in as well. Everybody in the performance industry wants to tap into where the big money is. That's just the nature of business.
I would never throw money at a 325... You've got/will have a fast car soon enough. Enjoy the 325 for what it is. Although, they sure are fun with full suspension.
They are expensive to begin with, so that factors in as well. Everybody in the performance industry wants to tap into where the big money is. That's just the nature of business.
I would never throw money at a 325... You've got/will have a fast car soon enough. Enjoy the 325 for what it is. Although, they sure are fun with full suspension.
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I guess it's not as far from reality as I thought. I still find it hard to beleive they can push that kind of boost through a stock bottom end, especially with 11.5:1 compression. I am VERY curious to find out if they have some time slips for this setup.
It also seems pretty laggy for a front mount. full boost by 4800 rpm....I've hit full boost quicker than that with a bigger turbo mounted all the way in the back. I know I have more cubes pushing it, but it's just an observation.
In a nutshell, I guess I won't call total bs on this, but I'm still VERY skeptical.
It also seems pretty laggy for a front mount. full boost by 4800 rpm....I've hit full boost quicker than that with a bigger turbo mounted all the way in the back. I know I have more cubes pushing it, but it's just an observation.
In a nutshell, I guess I won't call total bs on this, but I'm still VERY skeptical.
^ Remember, that high CR is probably helping it make that power I believe... What IS awe-inspiring, however, is the rotating assembly's longevity (so far) to me when considering those kinds of pressures. I have a feeling it will blow soon.
BMW techs? Any info on the factory pistons, quality, etc?
BMW techs? Any info on the factory pistons, quality, etc?
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From: Loganville, GA
Originally Posted by bboyferal
^ Remember, that high CR is probably helping it make that power I believe... What IS awe-inspiring, however, is the rotating assembly's longevity (so far) to me when considering those kinds of pressures. I have a feeling it will blow soon.
BMW techs? Any info on the factory pistons, quality, etc?
BMW techs? Any info on the factory pistons, quality, etc?
I'd say not all too long.
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From: Norn Iron
I know BMW did a recall on a lot of engines, as they had premature big end failure when the E46 M3 came out.
But generally, they are very reliable. If you build a multivalve engine, with variable valve timing etc, that can rev to 8000+rpm....
It needs to be strong in the first place. The rpm's will place more loads on the parts, than a bit of power ever will.
the only thing that would pose a real risk, is detonation.
But generally, they are very reliable. If you build a multivalve engine, with variable valve timing etc, that can rev to 8000+rpm....
It needs to be strong in the first place. The rpm's will place more loads on the parts, than a bit of power ever will.
the only thing that would pose a real risk, is detonation.
Originally Posted by stevieturbo
I know BMW did a recall on a lot of engines, as they had premature big end failure when the E46 M3 came out.
But generally, they are very reliable. If you build a multivalve engine, with variable valve timing etc, that can rev to 8000+rpm....
It needs to be strong in the first place. The rpm's will place more loads on the parts, than a bit of power ever will.
the only thing that would pose a real risk, is detonation.
But generally, they are very reliable. If you build a multivalve engine, with variable valve timing etc, that can rev to 8000+rpm....
It needs to be strong in the first place. The rpm's will place more loads on the parts, than a bit of power ever will.
the only thing that would pose a real risk, is detonation.
I must say I'm very impressed by what I already thought was a pretty bad-*** motor. It really isn't often these motors get pushed this hard on the street/local strips, especially considering the difficulty to "crack their code." I hope it lasts a while on some good fuel, but it isn't what I'd want in a car (93 octane daily driver)... Cool, nonetheless, for sure.
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you have to remeber that these M3 motors are very strong! somne say thay are actually stronger then the Skyline and Supra units!!!!
the US and Euro M3's differ sooo much. the US spec engines take booost much better than the Euro ones thanks to less compresion. be nice to see what the Euro ones could do with lower comp. ratio (about 9.0-1). i have heard of a Euro turner making over 1000bhp from an M3!
thanks Chris.
the US and Euro M3's differ sooo much. the US spec engines take booost much better than the Euro ones thanks to less compresion. be nice to see what the Euro ones could do with lower comp. ratio (about 9.0-1). i have heard of a Euro turner making over 1000bhp from an M3!
thanks Chris.
