Navy David SS

iTrader: (13)

Congrats. Outstanding 60'. Nice to be able to run in February With that much boost, isn't a "little" blow by to be expected? Is it blowing out the heads or the overflow can? Good luck on your quest for 8's. Looks like the 8's second list will grow this spring.

David

kp

iTrader: (34)

A little can be expected but over a quart a pass seems a little extreme. Car never did it that bad before on new head gaskets, I dont mess around when I see water everywhere under the hood after two passes, I could put a gallon puke tank on it I guess Its just blowing out the overflow can and from around the radiator cap, its losing enough water where after a pass the temp gauge amost pins going down the retuen road and then comes back down. Couple quarts down and these get hot real quick with the stock radiator.

Navy David SS

iTrader: (13)

I'm NO expert by any means. BUT if it is blowing out the can and not the heads, why would it mean a blown/or head problem? The amount of boost you are making it has to go some where. Mine will blow some out, but doesn't over heat. At 8-10lbs no blow by but the very few 10+ runs, some blow by.

Does anyone that runs say 15+ lbs of boost NOT have any blow by? Is there any water in your oil? I guess next question would be your crank venting?

If you just had your heads decked and new gaskets, can't believe they are bad already.

Just trying to play devil advocate.

David

kp

iTrader: (34)

What happens is the heads lift up, combusion goes underneath/around the gasket and the way the MLS gaskets are made it sends that right into the water holes between the cylinders which in turn raises the pressure in the cooling system enough to blow out of the radiator cap pressure release which goes to the catch can.

15psi I had very little, I didnt have the heads milled last time, just had them checked for being warped, its pretty easy to see what happens by looking at this pic. Boost isnt that relevant really, its the pressure inside the chamber and not whats before the intake valve that matters, if you get some detonation or big pressure spikes for whatever reason it just amplifies the problem. Except for Mike Brown I dont know anyone who puts 150-200 passes a year on their forced induction LS1 so its hard to draw from a user base of whats 'normal' and what isnt. i could make dyno passes all year and have no issues most likely so that doesnt mean much.. But I have run exactly the same combo for a while and its getting way worse so either the block, heads or both are not what they used to be

Its also pretty easy to see in the head pic why clamping the heads tighter may even make things worse. First set of gaskets I put on at 70 ftlbs with moly, 2nd 75 and these I torqued at 80ft lbs so that may be a probelm also. And yes the black stuff on the heads is exhast, after a while it looks like a header leak between the block and heads

Navy David SS

iTrader: (13)

kp I see what you mean. I appreciate your write up. We'll see what happens with mine this spring. Again thanks for the info. They say a picture is worth a 1000 words.

David

kp

iTrader: (34)

Its nothing new really, the nitrous guys take out gaskets just as easy. For most its not really a big issue, make a few dyno pulls, make a few street blasts, hit the track once or twice a year and all is good for a couple years. But I run this thing from 40 to 100 degrees outside a couple times a month year round and how much can you expect from a little 346 with a stock block. I could just mill the heads and run 9.50s forever but going slower just isnt any fun in drag racing

SSilverSSurfer

iTrader: (8)

yeah i know what you mean, good luck man

Navy David SS

iTrader: (13)

I hear ya. I'm in same situation. Could have gone back to nitrous running 10.0000 all day on a little 346. But what fun is that. Than I could run 8lbs of boost and run low 9's all day. But what fun is that. New rear end will go in this spring in the hopes of low-mid 8's. We'll see. Again thanks for the education.

David

cablebandit

iTrader: (37)

KP, any thought as to welding up the water passages some to match the head gasket and give it a little more beef? I am gonna call Proline tomorrow and see what they do to crutch the fords headbolt setup. I know you were gonna just bracket/index for awhile and wait for the new blocks or something but just wondered if you were gonna try anything else. I got a stock set of 317 i would give to you to try, i got some 921 springs to put on them but you would have to have them setup i guess for correct spring pressure. You can weld or whatever to them and see if it worked. I wish i had a set of the IRON truck heads to offer you....be funny if thats the cheap route for bench racers like me. Rob Raymer tried the iron heads back in the day and still had probs which leads me to think its a block prob MOREso than the heads. With the Dart chambers, i THINK you got more meat than than say a truck 72 cc head.

2001WS6Vert

Pushing water just means your runnin' with the big dogs now. I would guess most 8 sec. LS1's push water. I'm sure you could do some things to maybe extend the threshold a little. I'm curious to see how far the 6 bolt blocks extend the water pushing threshold.

Jon@BruteSpeed

iTrader: (3)

KP,
I'm just glad you ran again. LS1TECH is a little boring when you don't post your recent runs. I think the white house even stays tuned to your post.

Thanks,
Jon

NA$TY-TA

iTrader: (21)

Kev,

Mine does that when i really push her hard.....
AFR stay's rock steady at 11.5:1 and my motor temps are around 185.....
Thats from beating it on the street....
I noticed it more last sunday after making a couple vids.....
Orange water (rust from the block) on the rad shroud, turbo and Pass side fender......

Not a whole QT though... i
Im running 317 casting heads and GM MLS gaskets also.....
When i was chatting with Steve Turley the last time the Formula was in TX before it crashed i asked him about pushing water and he said when he really leans on it... thats what it does an dhe just has to deal with it....check it and and water when needed.....

Ya got me thinking though....


Kyle

6techniques

iTrader: (7)

Congrats on the time and I hope you get this issue ironed out... I wanna see some 8's out that monster!

TS6

iTrader: (41)

O-ring the heads or block?

Scary Guy

iTrader: (15)

Congrats kp.
I thought using an aluminum block was not a good idea with FI.I am going to have to reconsider using a iron block now!

99Z28LS1

iTrader: (4)

i watch everytime you get a new best and you do it too often..... slow down!

kp

iTrader: (34)

If I had a machine shop across the alley from me like I used to have and I could do this stuff myself I would try welding an extra lug to the block and heads like I used to do with the four inside bosses on BBCs that I used to blow out all the time, well those bolted in but the aliminum is weldable on these But I am not making any money off this stuff so I'm sure not going to finance the R&D. Eventually the aftermarket stuff will come out but I'm not holding my breath for $4,000 blocks, a BBC will fit right in here..

Maybe one of the gasket companies will come out with a real solution eventually. But yea, look at the side of the head bolt holes in the dart heads, the gaskets have little 3/16 holes in them so there is no reason for them to be like that, especially around the head bolt boss. The darts are pretty thin on the decks, they arent any thicker then stock from what I see but they claim the material is stronger. I'm sure that all could be welded up, stress relieved and drilled out but I'm not going to do it lol. I think the edelbrock heads have the most meat around them and may look into those. People say since they are that thick they wont cool as well but I'm running 112+ octane fuel and I dont think detonation is an issue so I'll trade the strength for less cooling. But maybe if I get the heads to seal I'll blow the crank out the bottom

Just random thoughts, if the block is moving its all moot anyhow, its odd I have never seen any carbon between the gasket and block, only between the head and gasket. It may be the way the gasket is designed I'll have to look closer at them. I'm not even so sure copper gaskets and o-rings/receiver grooves would work well on these. I dont mind pushing a little water but like I said its getting worse so something is wrong.

I'm pretty burned out with the whole thing really, I'll just sit back and watch what other people do over the summer now that everyone has a F1R/F1C or some giant turbo(s) going together. Maybe my stuff is just messed up

SSmokin 01

iTrader: (14)

Congrats !

frcefed98

iTrader: (16)

fug-it.... tig the head to the block problem solved

cablebandit

iTrader: (37)

KP. do you have any cracks behind the cylinder liners in the aluminum? I was just wondering how your block was comparing to TwnTrboCE. Lingenfelter makes strengthened rocker arm stands which is supposed to help but i dont see how as the heads seem to leak at the bottom...never near the rocker stands. Now if we had some kind of rail/girdle that went across the bottom head bolts, maybe it would help. I hope that you can get something half way dependable so you can continue to make lots of passes. You are my motivation to keep going when I screw up. I see it CAN be done...fun at the track and stay together...."I" just cant do it yet OH...did you check your radiator cap by chance? Take a break and see what you can come up with. Spend some time with the family and let it sit a bit and maybe something will pop in mind when you least are looking for it. Nobody wants you to stop though....you are our hero!!