New best with the trusty old D1SC today..
02-19-2007, 01:00 PM
#81
Originally Posted by V6 Bird
We arent running the 372 ci motor in that class. We know Dart heads arent legal. It will be an LS6 race ported head most likely.
I agree on the nitrous deal. A big dry kit like the one I had would work well. We have a full sponsor from Procharger to run their stuff so thats what we are using. 352 ci motor and a d1sc. But it will be blow through
with a possible A/A intercooler on a Drag radial. We have to 3275. I know we can make the power on motor even with the .550 lift rule. The ole saying goes, bend the rules far enough but not enough to break it 
I agree on the nitrous deal. A big dry kit like the one I had would work well. We have a full sponsor from Procharger to run their stuff so thats what we are using. 352 ci motor and a d1sc. But it will be blow through
with a possible A/A intercooler on a Drag radial. We have to 3275. I know we can make the power on motor even with the .550 lift rule. The ole saying goes, bend the rules far enough but not enough to break it They upped the weight by 100lbs this year (3400 360cid and down) and if you have an intercooler add 100lbs, aftermarket ECU another 50. That puts me at 3550 which knocks me right out of the game, the only drag radials you can use to take the 125 off is BFG or nittos and I dont think an F-body will do it on those tires on most of the tracks they are running on. I have been well in the 9s playing with the 11.5x28 ET streets but no way I would bolt a BFG on the car - now if you could run a 275 M/T radial I'd be there lol.
I'm not saying its not possible but that will just be another fox body class once someone figures it out, people are already in the 8s testing in legal trim so I hear.
I'm not worried about the cam lift, I can add 5-10 more degrees @ .050 and still stay at .550 so the cam isnt the limiting factor, neither is the heads really - its the size of the blower and the weight. I would maybe just port a set of AFR 205s just to get the thicker deck but I'm not really convinced that means anything really. Would be great to see a procharged LS car run well in SR and good luck with it, I understand not wanting to talk a lot about it. I just dont have the budget to do it, I could qualify depending on car counts but no one wants to be on the bottom half of the ladder.
02-19-2007, 03:58 PM
#82
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Kp what about o-ringing the heads and running graphite gaskets again? This is what I had to do back in the 5.0 days? How are the guys in the NMRA Renegade classes keeping the heads on? The typically see around 30 psi out of the F1R or YSI and still ahve the same 10 head bolts like us?
BTW-Congrats on the new number's bro, I have this little demon in the back of my head telling me I should of kept my D1!
BTW-Congrats on the new number's bro, I have this little demon in the back of my head telling me I should of kept my D1!
02-19-2007, 04:45 PM
#83
I understand, hell my first V8 car was an 87 GT 
...Then a t-type...then a 03 Cobra and now a LS1 TA...I must admit that I actually like the TA more than my Cobra but you just cant deny the platform of a fox! Ill be sticking with this one for a while and believe it or not, I ALMOST bought a SC300 to do the exact same thing! 
Good Luck with your decision.
And Nasty, if you start ANY other project before you get an 8 out of that thing I will personally come find you (along with half the members of this board)!
...Then a t-type...then a 03 Cobra and now a LS1 TA...I must admit that I actually like the TA more than my Cobra but you just cant deny the platform of a fox! Ill be sticking with this one for a while and believe it or not, I ALMOST bought a SC300 to do the exact same thing! Good Luck with your decision. And Nasty, if you start ANY other project before you get an 8 out of that thing I will personally come find you (along with half the members of this board)!
02-19-2007, 05:40 PM
#84
Originally Posted by Vortech
Kp what about o-ringing the heads and running graphite gaskets again? This is what I had to do back in the 5.0 days? How are the guys in the NMRA Renegade classes keeping the heads on? The typically see around 30 psi out of the F1R or YSI and still ahve the same 10 head bolts like us?
BTW-Congrats on the new number's bro, I have this little demon in the back of my head telling me I should of kept my D1!
BTW-Congrats on the new number's bro, I have this little demon in the back of my head telling me I should of kept my D1!
I think most big boost sbc ford guys do copper and o-rings or the fel pro wire lock gasket that uses an o-ring groove cut in the head to match the gasket.
Only good thing about graphites is they are probably a little more forgiving to some warpage and surface finish, here is a set of graphites with 4,000 street miles and 176 passes with 98 heads, 14psi or so and a lot of pump gas. Car still ran 9.70s and never ran any more then a 50/50 mix of 93 and 104 unleaded so they held up pretty well I think for being 10:1 compression..
02-19-2007, 05:57 PM
#85
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Well 1st, Congrats.
I've been running O-ringed heads for a long time. I first started out with the graphite gaskets. But that was a pain to clean up on gasket changes. I then switched to the MLS gaskets. This was all done on stock LS1 blocks and GM casting heads.
I then ran my stock LS2 block with the same setup into the mid 8's, consistantly. Yes I did push water on every one of these passes. About a qt. But starting water temp had a lot to do with it. I tried to keep from hot lapping the car. In the cases that I did. It would push two to three times that. Never hurt anything. Just brought it back, let it cool for a minute then add water and do it all over again.
With this setup. Stock LS2 block with GM 5.7 0-ringed heads. GM MLS gaskets. I could turn the boost down and run high 8's or low 9's without pushing any. This was in a 3700lb car. Granted my IAT's stayed near 100*.
Now onto the new motor. With the ERL block I switched to the Dart heads. I didn't have them O-ringed because I wanted to see if the thicker deck makes a difference. I think it has helped because I still only push about a qt when cool. But I'm making more power and with no O-ring. But at the same time the bock is probably stiffer. This stuff can drive you crazy.
So with that all said. I'm having the Dart heads O-ringed and running a GM MLS gasket when it goes back together.
Were having another one built and using copper gaskets with O-ring and receiver. So we'll have a good comparison.
I've been running O-ringed heads for a long time. I first started out with the graphite gaskets. But that was a pain to clean up on gasket changes. I then switched to the MLS gaskets. This was all done on stock LS1 blocks and GM casting heads.
I then ran my stock LS2 block with the same setup into the mid 8's, consistantly. Yes I did push water on every one of these passes. About a qt. But starting water temp had a lot to do with it. I tried to keep from hot lapping the car. In the cases that I did. It would push two to three times that. Never hurt anything. Just brought it back, let it cool for a minute then add water and do it all over again.
With this setup. Stock LS2 block with GM 5.7 0-ringed heads. GM MLS gaskets. I could turn the boost down and run high 8's or low 9's without pushing any. This was in a 3700lb car. Granted my IAT's stayed near 100*.
Now onto the new motor. With the ERL block I switched to the Dart heads. I didn't have them O-ringed because I wanted to see if the thicker deck makes a difference. I think it has helped because I still only push about a qt when cool. But I'm making more power and with no O-ring. But at the same time the bock is probably stiffer. This stuff can drive you crazy.
So with that all said. I'm having the Dart heads O-ringed and running a GM MLS gasket when it goes back together.
Were having another one built and using copper gaskets with O-ring and receiver. So we'll have a good comparison.
02-19-2007, 06:10 PM
#86
Curious to see how the copper and o-rings work out for you. I'm just not big on the water pushing thing, it was 50 degrees out last time out and the car was plenty cool.
A month ago when it was 75 out and I ran a 9.13 and 5.77 1/8 with the bigger blower @ 20psi peak I didnt push out that much but I could really smell the exhaust in the water so I figured I'd throw some fresh gaskets on. Both passes on the new gaskets saturday with the D1 and 17 psi and 50 degrees out just covered under th hood with water from the overflow and around the radiator cap. Plus I ran C-16, colder plugs, less timing and more fuel. I guess its possible I could have cracked a sleeve or something too, find out in a couple days, but it was bad enough where I didnt want to make any more passes on a very nice track in almost perfect (for around here) weather..
I think I may just switch to LS2 block, little more cam, little less compression and get these heads flattened out and see what happens. May as well use the 4" bore, hate to scrap this block/pistons though, still leaks down great, no smoke and the bores still look real nice.
Are you running a different radiator or an expansion tank though, pushing a quart isnt so bad but that little bit will be enough to drop the level of the radiator where it wil bury the temp gauge for a minute and then drop back down.
A month ago when it was 75 out and I ran a 9.13 and 5.77 1/8 with the bigger blower @ 20psi peak I didnt push out that much but I could really smell the exhaust in the water so I figured I'd throw some fresh gaskets on. Both passes on the new gaskets saturday with the D1 and 17 psi and 50 degrees out just covered under th hood with water from the overflow and around the radiator cap. Plus I ran C-16, colder plugs, less timing and more fuel. I guess its possible I could have cracked a sleeve or something too, find out in a couple days, but it was bad enough where I didnt want to make any more passes on a very nice track in almost perfect (for around here) weather..
I think I may just switch to LS2 block, little more cam, little less compression and get these heads flattened out and see what happens. May as well use the 4" bore, hate to scrap this block/pistons though, still leaks down great, no smoke and the bores still look real nice.
Are you running a different radiator or an expansion tank though, pushing a quart isnt so bad but that little bit will be enough to drop the level of the radiator where it wil bury the temp gauge for a minute and then drop back down.
Last edited by kp; 02-19-2007 at 06:17 PM.
02-19-2007, 06:51 PM
#87
Originally Posted by TwnTrboCE
Well 1st, Congrats.
I've been running O-ringed heads for a long time. I first started out with the graphite gaskets. But that was a pain to clean up on gasket changes. I then switched to the MLS gaskets. This was all done on stock LS1 blocks and GM casting heads.
I then ran my stock LS2 block with the same setup into the mid 8's, consistantly. Yes I did push water on every one of these passes. About a qt. But starting water temp had a lot to do with it. I tried to keep from hot lapping the car. In the cases that I did. It would push two to three times that. Never hurt anything. Just brought it back, let it cool for a minute then add water and do it all over again.
With this setup. Stock LS2 block with GM 5.7 0-ringed heads. GM MLS gaskets. I could turn the boost down and run high 8's or low 9's without pushing any. This was in a 3700lb car. Granted my IAT's stayed near 100*.
Now onto the new motor. With the ERL block I switched to the Dart heads. I didn't have them O-ringed because I wanted to see if the thicker deck makes a difference. I think it has helped because I still only push about a qt when cool. But I'm making more power and with no O-ring. But at the same time the bock is probably stiffer. This stuff can drive you crazy.
So with that all said. I'm having the Dart heads O-ringed and running a GM MLS gasket when it goes back together.
Were having another one built and using copper gaskets with O-ring and receiver. So we'll have a good comparison.
I've been running O-ringed heads for a long time. I first started out with the graphite gaskets. But that was a pain to clean up on gasket changes. I then switched to the MLS gaskets. This was all done on stock LS1 blocks and GM casting heads.
I then ran my stock LS2 block with the same setup into the mid 8's, consistantly. Yes I did push water on every one of these passes. About a qt. But starting water temp had a lot to do with it. I tried to keep from hot lapping the car. In the cases that I did. It would push two to three times that. Never hurt anything. Just brought it back, let it cool for a minute then add water and do it all over again.
With this setup. Stock LS2 block with GM 5.7 0-ringed heads. GM MLS gaskets. I could turn the boost down and run high 8's or low 9's without pushing any. This was in a 3700lb car. Granted my IAT's stayed near 100*.
Now onto the new motor. With the ERL block I switched to the Dart heads. I didn't have them O-ringed because I wanted to see if the thicker deck makes a difference. I think it has helped because I still only push about a qt when cool. But I'm making more power and with no O-ring. But at the same time the bock is probably stiffer. This stuff can drive you crazy.
So with that all said. I'm having the Dart heads O-ringed and running a GM MLS gasket when it goes back together.
Were having another one built and using copper gaskets with O-ring and receiver. So we'll have a good comparison.
Good Info Mike..... I thought you said that before.....
Who do you use to O-Ring the heads..... whats the Charge$$ wise??
I may look into that myself...
Does it make any difference with the Iron block???
Kyle
02-19-2007, 10:35 PM
#88
I didnt even realize I ran this fast lol. Went back to the trailer this evening to try to find the timeslips, I usually just look at the ET and toss them on the floor but it was pretty windy and I must have lost the first pass and my wife didnt let the camera roll long enough on the 1st pass so who knows what the mph was, but I did find the slip for the 2nd pass, 149.81 - almost 150 I went to look because a friend that was there said i ran 149+ and I didnt believe him, couldnt really tell on the video either.
Not a big deal really but I always said when I hit 150 with this thing I would stop
I went to look because a friend that was there said i ran 149+ and I didnt believe him, couldnt really tell on the video either.Not a big deal really but I always said when I hit 150 with this thing I would stop
02-20-2007, 11:25 AM
#90
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Originally Posted by kp
have to use a stock type plastic intake or aluminum copy, no EFI/carb conversions in street race as far as I understand.
They upped the weight by 100lbs this year (3400 360cid and down) and if you have an intercooler add 100lbs, aftermarket ECU another 50. That puts me at 3550 which knocks me right out of the game, the only drag radials you can use to take the 125 off is BFG or nittos and I dont think an F-body will do it on those tires on most of the tracks they are running on. I have been well in the 9s playing with the 11.5x28 ET streets but no way I would bolt a BFG on the car - now if you could run a 275 M/T radial I'd be there lol.
I'm not saying its not possible but that will just be another fox body class once someone figures it out, people are already in the 8s testing in legal trim so I hear.
I'm not worried about the cam lift, I can add 5-10 more degrees @ .050 and still stay at .550 so the cam isnt the limiting factor, neither is the heads really - its the size of the blower and the weight. I would maybe just port a set of AFR 205s just to get the thicker deck but I'm not really convinced that means anything really. Would be great to see a procharged LS car run well in SR and good luck with it, I understand not wanting to talk a lot about it. I just dont have the budget to do it, I could qualify depending on car counts but no one wants to be on the bottom half of the ladder.
They upped the weight by 100lbs this year (3400 360cid and down) and if you have an intercooler add 100lbs, aftermarket ECU another 50. That puts me at 3550 which knocks me right out of the game, the only drag radials you can use to take the 125 off is BFG or nittos and I dont think an F-body will do it on those tires on most of the tracks they are running on. I have been well in the 9s playing with the 11.5x28 ET streets but no way I would bolt a BFG on the car - now if you could run a 275 M/T radial I'd be there lol.
I'm not saying its not possible but that will just be another fox body class once someone figures it out, people are already in the 8s testing in legal trim so I hear.
I'm not worried about the cam lift, I can add 5-10 more degrees @ .050 and still stay at .550 so the cam isnt the limiting factor, neither is the heads really - its the size of the blower and the weight. I would maybe just port a set of AFR 205s just to get the thicker deck but I'm not really convinced that means anything really. Would be great to see a procharged LS car run well in SR and good luck with it, I understand not wanting to talk a lot about it. I just dont have the budget to do it, I could qualify depending on car counts but no one wants to be on the bottom half of the ladder.
Meaning an 850 carb and a carb intake just like the rules say we can use. Theres nothing saying we cant do it and its has been confirmed by Jake at NMCA> Now if we drilled the injector bungs out then yes it would be illegal.
02-20-2007, 12:00 PM
#91
Originally Posted by V6 Bird
Wrong again. ...Its a blow thru setup. Meaning an 850 carb and a carb intake just like the rules say we can use. Theres nothing saying we cant do it and its has been confirmed by Jake at NMCA> Now if we drilled the injector bungs out then yes it would be illegal.
Meaning an 850 carb and a carb intake just like the rules say we can use. Theres nothing saying we cant do it and its has been confirmed by Jake at NMCA> Now if we drilled the injector bungs out then yes it would be illegal. I'd rather do a blow through then an EFI setup with an intercooler.But I asked the same thing last year at BG and on an LS1 they said no carb intakes, only production 'style' (EFI or not). Their site is down right now so I dont have the rules in front of me but I dont remember how they worded the intakes but if they say its OK then its OK - depends who you talk to I guess. If you can run carbs then an LS1 would do pretty well with nitrous and a plate @ 2900 lbs but then the cam and head restrictions would come into play more..
Good luck with it either way.
02-20-2007, 12:14 PM
#93
Originally Posted by cablebandit
KP...awesome news on the 149+ mph. Keep looking, maybe you already run an eight!!
If the block looks OK I decided to just buy a new set of heads with a little bigger chambers and bolt them on and run 15psi for the rest of year, i can still eek a tenth out of it @ 15psi I think. I'll do an LSx block or something over the summer if they ever release them and put it in for the fall weather - getting too late in the year to mess with the engine..
02-20-2007, 12:28 PM
#94
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KP heres my tiny 2 cents.
Have you checked your heads to see if they're warped? All that o ringing stuff is good along with they yamahabond if your heads are perfectly flat.
If you ran at a slightly lower boost do you think you'll push as much water?
I'd run the AFR 225's since you know they'll have the fat deck you'll be looking for. Then when you change setups you can sell em and I'll buy em from you.
Your car impresses me the best because it follows the k.i.s.s principle to the T.
Have you checked your heads to see if they're warped? All that o ringing stuff is good along with they yamahabond if your heads are perfectly flat.
If you ran at a slightly lower boost do you think you'll push as much water?
I'd run the AFR 225's since you know they'll have the fat deck you'll be looking for. Then when you change setups you can sell em and I'll buy em from you.
Your car impresses me the best because it follows the k.i.s.s principle to the T.
02-20-2007, 12:46 PM
#95
Originally Posted by Got Me SOM
KP heres my tiny 2 cents.
Have you checked your heads to see if they're warped? All that o ringing stuff is good along with they yamahabond if your heads are perfectly flat.
If you ran at a slightly lower boost do you think you'll push as much water?
I'd run the AFR 225's since you know they'll have the fat deck you'll be looking for. Then when you change setups you can sell em and I'll buy em from you.
Your car impresses me the best because it follows the k.i.s.s principle to the T.
Have you checked your heads to see if they're warped? All that o ringing stuff is good along with they yamahabond if your heads are perfectly flat.
If you ran at a slightly lower boost do you think you'll push as much water?
I'd run the AFR 225's since you know they'll have the fat deck you'll be looking for. Then when you change setups you can sell em and I'll buy em from you.
Your car impresses me the best because it follows the k.i.s.s principle to the T.
I hate to buy a set of small bore 225s right now since I dont plan on sticking with a 3.9 bore anymore. I'm not sure if they make the 4 inch bore 225s with a smaller then 72cc chamber, that would be too big. I could just put a set of 205s on but I dont know how they will perform.
I ran 15psi all year and never pushed a drop, i had some fuel issues (running out) and was getting some detonation and it started doing it, then I put new gaskets on and it was fine. Then when I put the F1 on it started a little again so I figured I'd change the gaskets and now it did it right off the bat.
Granted it was probably making about the same actual power with the D1 @ 50 degrees out @ 17.5psi then it was with the F1 with almost 19.5psi at 75 degrees out since the mph was the same/slightly higher so who knows.
Like I said I'm not really complaining about it, either I have to live with it pushing water if I want to go faster or slow the car down. At this point its more prudent to just slow it down. Cheapest thing to do is just buy a new set of dart heads I guess, I really dont want to mill these and raise the compression any at all but I guess I could just open up the chambers a little. Thought it would be intersting to put a set of the 'cool' heads on the car and see what happens though
02-20-2007, 02:07 PM
#96
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are your pistons 9.5:1 compression and you're looking to drop that with a more open chamber?
i have the opposite problem i think my compression is a bit too low and will need to raise a teense bit to get it up to 9.5-9.7:1.
i have the opposite problem i think my compression is a bit too low and will need to raise a teense bit to get it up to 9.5-9.7:1.
02-20-2007, 03:01 PM
#97
Originally Posted by Got Me SOM
are your pistons 9.5:1 compression and you're looking to drop that with a more open chamber?
i have the opposite problem i think my compression is a bit too low and will need to raise a teense bit to get it up to 9.5-9.7:1.
i have the opposite problem i think my compression is a bit too low and will need to raise a teense bit to get it up to 9.5-9.7:1.
I still havent pulled the heads yet lol, enthusiasm is running low..
02-20-2007, 04:48 PM
#99
Originally Posted by blackz93
What is the problem with pushing some water if all you have to do is fill it back up? Not just you KP, but in general.
Blowing out enough water where its barely circulating and then driving the car back a 1/2 mile or more is kinda hard on aluminum blocks/heads tha are too thin to begin with.
At least that my reason, plus I just dont like it because one day it will puke a head gasket all the way and all that water under the tires is no fun.