kp

iTrader: (34)

It costs 150-250 to o-ring and mill the heads, any machine shop that does performance work can do it - just bring them the heads, a gasket and some money..

TTAWD

Hi kp have you looked in to the SCE's
http://www.scegaskets.com/products/ics.html

Looks like the best of both worlds!
I have a set for my SBC.

kp

iTrader: (34)

I've seen them and the phusions or whatever they are, supoosedly they dont really help much on these..

I just pulled the LH head and its the worse I ever seen it, no cracks on the deck. For having two passes and 10 minutes run time I'm not so happy

I may try just o-ringing/flattening these Darts out for the heck of it, they arent worth much anyhow and I just put new springs on..

T/A KID

iTrader: (12)

Kp seems like the 3.4 pulley is doing well, how hard is the D1SC spinning now about 60,300 out of the 62,000 blower RPM?

kp

iTrader: (34)

3.4 puts it at max impeller at 7000rpm with a 7.25 crank pulley and it goes through the traps at 7000 so its spinning that fast..

kp

iTrader: (34)

Well here you go

First time I ever seen marks between the gasket and the block, I checked every single bolt with a brand new snap on digital torque wrench (certified 2%) and only 2 were under 77 ft lbs.

May try some different heads for the heck of it just to see if they really make any difference. I'll go over the block with a .0002"/ft straight edge tomorrow and see what it looks like first..

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

So you think are you just lifting the heads, nothing to it?

helicoil

iTrader: (104)

I am thinking it would be worth having a good machine shop with a rotary broach/surfacer with CBN or PCD tooling take a 'light' cut on the head, say .001"-.002" to see just how flat they are.

Do you run any antifreeze in the engine or just plain water? The chambers have a wierd color, almost looks like engines I have seen that have been pumping coolant.....

Not thinking you have a crack in the liner or behind it right now based on those pics

kp

iTrader: (34)

I guess

Wish there was nothig to it to fix it If the block is way off then I'll do a new engine I guess.

kp

iTrader: (34)

Just water, the sunoco 112 I use turns everything white like that. I ran the car on C16 at the track but drained it out and use the old sunoco I have to move the car around - at 10.00 a gallon I save that C16 like fine wine

I'll just have the heads cut, but I will still check the block deck if anything is way out - unfortunately its a little harder to broach the block. There is a high dollar machine shop the specializes in BBCs fairly local and they said they will surface the heads for MLS.

helicoil

iTrader: (104)

I would go for it. You may find your problems after they make the first cut.
I think its something like .006"-.007" per cc for the LS engines. Maybe they will clean at that which shouldn't affect your comp ratio too much.

I know the MLS like a low Ra, probably should be good around 30-40 at a minimum. Honestly, I have seen engines go together at our shop at 9 Ra without any problems. Ford 3.8l's.....I really don't think you can get them too smooth. In fact seen Ford manuals spec 10 Ra for head gasket surfaces.

I am sure you know but most of the time cleaning up these surfaces on today's engines should be delicately done, no roloc discs, etc. The steel MLS gaskets don't conform to anything that is not flat. the rolocs/scotchbrite discs will create waviness in the surface not really detectable by eye, but its there. Probably the best thing to use is the 3M 'rubber fingers'. They have three grits - yellow, white, and green. Can't remember the finest, have them at work. Check with a good parts store and see if they have them. Nice thing is they don't care if they get wet.

To straightedge the block, it really should be super clean, no carbon etc.

Curious to see your findings..... If it worked before, it should work again. Something is amiss.

kp

iTrader: (34)

I dont use any of that stuff on aluminum, roloc discs are are for book time dealer work not race cars Ihave used the plastic type before but no need on these really, the graphite gaskets on these are pretty messy though.

I use my fingernail to scrape what little sealer stays on and GM top end cleaner to take off the carbon, the sealer on the GM gaskets pretty much falls right off. Yea the old 3.8 ford head gaskets, I was a warranty rep for ford in the early to mid 90s

We'll see, I may try some different heads though for the heck of it..

NA$TY-TA

iTrader: (21)

What heads ya thinking about Kev????


Im wondering if there is a diff. between what the Alum. Block motor can take and what an Iron block motor can take .... head lifting wise.......

kp

iTrader: (34)

Dont know what I'm going to at this point, I may put a set of small bore afr 225s on it. I know these Darts are supposed to be better material but the .400 thickness of these compared to the AFRs makes these darts looks like a piece of cardboard.

I cleaned up the block the best I could in the car and I dont see any issues at all with it being flat with a good machinists 24" straight edge. Heads are a little tweaked but nothing crazy.

So I'm just making my mind up what to do, be interesting to try the AFRs I guess.

I dont know on the iron block, it all depends whats moving I guess and a bunch of other factors. You will find out soon enough

TwnTrboCE

iTrader: (43)

Not from what we have experienced. They all push water when making big power.

KP, O-ring those heads and you'll notice a big difference. I've had gaskets look that bad on mine, but that was after 50 passes.

kp

iTrader: (34)

Honestly I'll just try the AFRs, I'm going to back it off and run 9.50s or so anyhow for the rest of the year. My first set of gaskets lasted 70 passes, then 30 then 2 lol. I had a pair of the AFRs in my hands today that were milled quite a bit and they were a lot stouter then these on the deck. Plus I can run the right gaskets for the bore and it will drop my compression a little. I'll send the darts off to get some port work and o-ringed and save them for a 4" bore engine.

I appreciate the advice, you guys are one of the few people that run the crap out of your car and its sound advice I'm sure. But I'm just not gung-ho about the car this year really, its exceeded my expectations and sometimes its best not to get greedy.

eb02z06

iTrader: (18)

Bro-how does the o-ringing work with the MLS gaskets? Is there enough material there for them to crush where the o-ring sits?

kp

iTrader: (34)

Well I made my decision, it may be good or bad we'll see. Picked up a set of small bore AFR 225 heads from the excellent folks at Thunder Racing (had a few sets in stock) with the better springs. They have 65cc chambers, just measured these darts with the carbon at 62 CCs so compression wont change much. Figure I'll run the 3.9 MLS gasket, more material betwwen the water holes and the combustion chamber the better I guess.

I may also step up the cam size, maybe try one of Bob at EPP's blower cams, trying to decide on that..

Be interesting to see how the AFR's compare to the out of the box 225 Darts and leave this cam though..

eb02z06

iTrader: (18)

So who's go the bling now? That's awesome bro-i think getting a larger cam will help-a little bit of overlap could actually help-at least that's what I'm betting on for my combo!

kp

iTrader: (34)

I'll have to work an extra few hours a week for a while

I hate to give up the midrange but I could use a little more power up top, we'll see how it goes.