MAF or SD with a Procharger
MAF or SD with a Procharger This is probably a noob question but what are the guys with the big F1 prochargers using? Are you guys still using the factory MAF or have you switched to SD? I am curious just because I always hear that guys with turbo setups need to switch to SD or else the factory MAF will get maxed out and most likely will explode under heavy boost. I havent heard of any of the procharged guys talking about the same sort of thing so I am curious about your setups.
I am looking for a worry free motor putting out some serious numbers that I can drive around town all day and not have to worry about. I understand this is not a cheap concept but I think a 402 from TSP with a F1c blower would be what I'm lookin for.
Let me know
Thanks
-Josh
I am looking for a worry free motor putting out some serious numbers that I can drive around town all day and not have to worry about. I understand this is not a cheap concept but I think a 402 from TSP with a F1c blower would be what I'm lookin for.
Let me know
Thanks
-Josh
http://www.exoticperformanceplus.com...Car.php?car=40
We normally keep the maf. The Corvette above still has the factory maf and throttle body, making 740 rwhp on my Mustang Chassis Dyno, and being driven hard weekly on a road course. Bob
We normally keep the maf. The Corvette above still has the factory maf and throttle body, making 740 rwhp on my Mustang Chassis Dyno, and being driven hard weekly on a road course. Bob
That is promising but I always thought the "boost is boost is boost"... sort of concept applies.. As in, whether the boost is being produced by a turbo, a twin turbo or a superchager system.. its still the same amount of air.. How its delivered, when its delivered and how its produced/controlled is different but how is the factory MAF not being maxed out with a procharger psuhing 700-800whp where as it is being maxed out and sometimes exploding with much more than 500whp with turbo kits on low boost.
I know this is probably a complex answer but I am deff trying to learn as much as possible..
BTW Bob I hear you are the man to talk to when it comes to procharger kits especially those in RX7s which is what mine is gonna go in so I am glad you have graced my thread with your presence. While your here I have been wondering, why did you guys use the GTO style mounting system when installing that D1sc in the FC rx7? I would think the camaro style would be even better and then you could use the SDCE mounting hardware and tensioner.
I know this is probably a complex answer but I am deff trying to learn as much as possible..
BTW Bob I hear you are the man to talk to when it comes to procharger kits especially those in RX7s which is what mine is gonna go in so I am glad you have graced my thread with your presence. While your here I have been wondering, why did you guys use the GTO style mounting system when installing that D1sc in the FC rx7? I would think the camaro style would be even better and then you could use the SDCE mounting hardware and tensioner.
Originally Posted by INTMD8
IMHO the only proper way to tune a forced induction car that is capable of maxing out the maf sensor is with a speed density tune.
Originally Posted by sciff5
That is promising but I always thought the "boost is boost is boost"... sort of concept applies.. As in, whether the boost is being produced by a turbo, a twin turbo or a superchager system.. its still the same amount of air.. How its delivered, when its delivered and how its produced/controlled is different but how is the factory MAF not being maxed out with a procharger psuhing 700-800whp where as it is being maxed out and sometimes exploding with much more than 500whp with turbo kits on low boost.
I know this is probably a complex answer but I am deff trying to learn as much as possible..
BTW Bob I hear you are the man to talk to when it comes to procharger kits especially those in RX7s which is what mine is gonna go in so I am glad you have graced my thread with your presence. While your here I have been wondering, why did you guys use the GTO style mounting system when installing that D1sc in the FC rx7? I would think the camaro style would be even better and then you could use the SDCE mounting hardware and tensioner.
I know this is probably a complex answer but I am deff trying to learn as much as possible..
BTW Bob I hear you are the man to talk to when it comes to procharger kits especially those in RX7s which is what mine is gonna go in so I am glad you have graced my thread with your presence. While your here I have been wondering, why did you guys use the GTO style mounting system when installing that D1sc in the FC rx7? I would think the camaro style would be even better and then you could use the SDCE mounting hardware and tensioner.
The maf gets maxed out early on, then the tune is basically a speed density tune after that. This way the maf is still there for everyday driving. We've never had one explode on us.
The F body ProCharger kit mounts the head unit so low in the frame that it cannot be used in nearly as many applications as the GTO set-up can. It doesn't look like you could get the f body unit in there without some major modifications. Bob
FormerVendor
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From: WWW.SPEEDINC.COM
Originally Posted by sciff5
How is SD tune for the streets especially for a place like New England where the temperatures vary up to 100 degrees between the winter and the summer
EPP- Are you using a 2/3 bar map sensor along with the MAF? Most setups are running blind after the maf sensor maxes as you're only adding fuel vs RPM (no compensation for boost) whereas a speed density tune would be Fuel vs RPM vs Boost.
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I just lost a lot of respect for Bob@EPP for making a post that sounded more like marketing than good info. All of the other posts I have seen from EPP have been excellent info, but the 740HP maf tune comment is crap. The comment about the maf is maxed out early, then the tune is SD is BS. Once th maf maxes out, the tune is alpha-n, not SD. This is fine for WOT, but is wholly lacking at any other point. I am COMPLETELY disagreeing with a shop I respect, so If someone can explain the errors of my ways, please feel free to explain.
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Originally Posted by gametech
I just lost a lot of respect for Bob@EPP for making a post that sounded more like marketing than good info. All of the other posts I have seen from EPP have been excellent info, but the 740HP maf tune comment is crap. The comment about the maf is maxed out early, then the tune is SD is BS. Once th maf maxes out, the tune is alpha-n, not SD. This is fine for WOT, but is wholly lacking at any other point. I am COMPLETELY disagreeing with a shop I respect, so If someone can explain the errors of my ways, please feel free to explain.
Alpha-n is where the fueling is based on throttle position vs rpm. It has a few uses for idling HUGE cams, but it is mostly used for WOT strip tunes. This is a VERY limited sort of tuning, really usefull in race-only cars. This sort of tuning also HAS to be adjusted for local temp and baro conditions.
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From: WWW.SPEEDINC.COM
Originally Posted by Jake@EPP
The MAF tune is fine providing boost is linear (ATI),
Also, boost will be linear at WOT, and the same if weather is the same, but the MAF could still be maxed out under part throttle, so now your fueling demands have changed but fuel delivery has not.
Originally Posted by INTMD8
I disagree. If the car is tuned on an 80 degree day and driven on a 40 degree day boost will be higher and their will be no more fuel added to compensate for it. (as nothing is measuring boost pressure or airflow after the MAF maxes).
Also, boost will be linear at WOT, and the same if weather is the same, but the MAF could still be maxed out under part throttle, so now your fueling demands have changed but fuel delivery has not.
Also, boost will be linear at WOT, and the same if weather is the same, but the MAF could still be maxed out under part throttle, so now your fueling demands have changed but fuel delivery has not.
Exactly. Speed density is the only correct way to tune a car that maxes the MAF. As for weather changes, there is a ton of fuel correction tables vs. IAT and coolant temp. Learn how to tune SD and use these tables right and it will not matter if its 0-120 degrees out your tune will be right where you want it to be.
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From: WWW.SPEEDINC.COM
Originally Posted by hellbents10
Learn how to tune SD and use these tables right and it will not matter if its 0-120 degrees out your tune will be right where you want it to be.
man this stuff is starting to get in deapth... I am gettin most of whats goin on but how do you tune SD? I know you have to have the car tuned at a shop first but then do you have to continue tuning it yourself for different weather conditions, or can you download a bunch of maps already created and just load them in.. what program do you use to tune?
This is deff a new area for me
This is deff a new area for me
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From: Hell AFB
Originally Posted by sciff5
man this stuff is starting to get in deapth... I am gettin most of whats goin on but how do you tune SD? I know you have to have the car tuned at a shop first but then do you have to continue tuning it yourself for different weather conditions, or can you download a bunch of maps already created and just load them in.. what program do you use to tune?
This is deff a new area for me
This is deff a new area for me
FormerVendor
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From: WWW.SPEEDINC.COM
Once the car is properly tuned SD you do not need to change anything for different weather conditions or boost levels. (assuming you run the proper octane fuel at higher boost levels)
I use HP tuners 2/3bar SD operating system and RTT (real time tuning).
I use HP tuners 2/3bar SD operating system and RTT (real time tuning).
Originally Posted by INTMD8
Once the car is properly tuned SD you do not need to change anything for different weather conditions or boost levels. (assuming you run the proper octane fuel at higher boost levels)
I use HP tuners 2/3bar SD operating system and RTT (real time tuning).
I use HP tuners 2/3bar SD operating system and RTT (real time tuning).
Hmm SD tune doesnt sound so bad then, althought I am sure it costs a lot more to tune a SD car than a MAF car. If it is really this easy why do so many people still try to use the MAF?
So why is it then that turbo kits are so much more money than supercharger kits?
Anytime I hear people talking about turbo kits they say expect to pay at least 20k for your setup where as several people have done 5-6k procharger setups... Where does the extra cost come from?
The extra cost comes from big power and getting it to the ground properly. You can do a P1 or D1 kit at 500 or so whp, and be ok with a lot of stock stuff, with a good set of injectors and a pump. Now you want to go to the track and get that power to the ground, well its time to shell out some $$$. Now lets say you want to make more then the 500whp. Now you need more fuel, possibly a forged bottom end, driveline work (trans, rear, and associated goodies), tuning, and all of that good stuff. Now you have 20k in it.