which is better...procharger or vortech
06-19-2007, 08:35 AM
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which is better...procharger or vortech Hey guys I am by no means starting a flame I just need some quick advice from you guys that have experience with either of these systems.
Heres what I have...00 T/A stroked 396ci..H/C..headers..forged internals..
I am wanting to know what will be more reliable the Vortech G trim or the Procharger that I see alot of people on here running. Haven't seen alot of people on here using vortech. I was told that the Procharger was more what I need. Guy said that the Procharger DSC-1? has 1400+ in CFM compared to 850CFM with the vortech. He said i would be foolish to put a vortech on a modified motor and would be lucky to get 4lbs boost from the vortech.
Any help with this is appreciated.
Heres what I have...00 T/A stroked 396ci..H/C..headers..forged internals..
I am wanting to know what will be more reliable the Vortech G trim or the Procharger that I see alot of people on here running. Haven't seen alot of people on here using vortech. I was told that the Procharger was more what I need. Guy said that the Procharger DSC-1? has 1400+ in CFM compared to 850CFM with the vortech. He said i would be foolish to put a vortech on a modified motor and would be lucky to get 4lbs boost from the vortech.
Any help with this is appreciated.
06-19-2007, 09:58 AM
#5
This will start a debate, no doubt. Not your fault though.
Most members will tell you Procharger is the better unit. The few who run Vortechs will say the Vortech is better. The 2 guys on earth who haven't broken their Powerdyne units (yet) will swear by them, lol.
I run a D1SC, VERY satisfied with it. I like the self contained oiling vs. being fed oil from the engine. Should either the blower or engine fail, one won't contaminate the oil and destroy the other. Testing by ATI has shown the oil temperature to be cooler in the ATI unit than the Vortech (Vortech had claimed the engine oil keeps the blower cooler than a self contained system, one of many tests performed by Vortech that was proven to be wrong).
From a common sense standpoint, since most LSX users choose ATI, a big advantage to using it is the support you can find here. Should you have a question about an ATI unit there are many members here with tons of experience with them and can help. As mentioned, only a few guys run Vortechs unit.
Most members will tell you Procharger is the better unit. The few who run Vortechs will say the Vortech is better. The 2 guys on earth who haven't broken their Powerdyne units (yet) will swear by them, lol.
I run a D1SC, VERY satisfied with it. I like the self contained oiling vs. being fed oil from the engine. Should either the blower or engine fail, one won't contaminate the oil and destroy the other. Testing by ATI has shown the oil temperature to be cooler in the ATI unit than the Vortech (Vortech had claimed the engine oil keeps the blower cooler than a self contained system, one of many tests performed by Vortech that was proven to be wrong).
From a common sense standpoint, since most LSX users choose ATI, a big advantage to using it is the support you can find here. Should you have a question about an ATI unit there are many members here with tons of experience with them and can help. As mentioned, only a few guys run Vortechs unit.
06-19-2007, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by TS6
This will start a debate, no doubt. Not your fault though.
Most members will tell you Procharger is the better unit. The few who run Vortechs will say the Vortech is better. The 2 guys on earth who haven't broken their Powerdyne units (yet) will swear by them, lol.
I run a D1SC, VERY satisfied with it. I like the self contained oiling vs. being fed oil from the engine. Should either the blower or engine fail, one won't contaminate the oil and destroy the other. Testing by ATI has shown the oil temperature to be cooler in the ATI unit than the Vortech (Vortech had claimed the engine oil keeps the blower cooler than a self contained system, one of many tests performed by Vortech that was proven to be wrong).
From a common sense standpoint, since most LSX users choose ATI, a big advantage to using it is the support you can find here. Should you have a question about an ATI unit there are many members here with tons of experience with them and can help. As mentioned, only a few guys run Vortechs unit.
Most members will tell you Procharger is the better unit. The few who run Vortechs will say the Vortech is better. The 2 guys on earth who haven't broken their Powerdyne units (yet) will swear by them, lol.
I run a D1SC, VERY satisfied with it. I like the self contained oiling vs. being fed oil from the engine. Should either the blower or engine fail, one won't contaminate the oil and destroy the other. Testing by ATI has shown the oil temperature to be cooler in the ATI unit than the Vortech (Vortech had claimed the engine oil keeps the blower cooler than a self contained system, one of many tests performed by Vortech that was proven to be wrong).
From a common sense standpoint, since most LSX users choose ATI, a big advantage to using it is the support you can find here. Should you have a question about an ATI unit there are many members here with tons of experience with them and can help. As mentioned, only a few guys run Vortechs unit.
Air to Water will keep you running cool especially in hot weather conditions and city driving.The only reasons the ATI units perform better ie make more hp is because there headunits push out more cfm's..If the Vortech pushed out the same amount of cfm's (apples to apples) they would probably match the performance or possibly exceed.
From the common sense standpoint lets be factual here ATI is a sponsor here and they push their product very hard and they have a lot of minions, Vortech doesn't advertise at all.
I'm not hating on ATI, I like their stuff and would have went with their product had they not had lots of belt alignment problems, belt slipping problems, bad tensioner setups, 6 rib setups etc etc. They had to redesign their kit because of so many issues. This was back in 2003 when I was shopping.
I bought my kit cause I got a really good deal on it used and have had no problems with it from day one.
I think my car makes power considering my blower is smaller than the P1, I guess that attests to how efficient my set up is. That was with 18"wheels on the front too.
just know that you will need a really good fuel system and your drivetrain will start to weaken up and fail as you go up with power.
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06-19-2007, 01:44 PM
#8
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ATI has the best head units. That's about it.
Their kits leave much to be desired. Private vendors like A&A and ECS had to make custom kits for C5s because the ProCharger kit sucked. Then there was a scuffle between them because ProCharger wanted people to buy their kit and they wouldn't just sell the head units to a&a or ecs anymore. I'm not going to say the move was wrong, but it is a FACT that a few innocent customers were caught in the crossfire and left without head units because ProCharger refused to ship them. Their service also leaves a lot to be desired. Actually, unless you spend a ton of $$$ with them it's usually non-existant. I gave up trying to get anything out of them long ago. And I've been in arguments here with someone who apparently works there, and his attitude was disgusting not to mention ignorant. Instead of addressing the problem he just blew off an entire group of perfomance enthusiasts and insulted their mechanical abilities. Anyone who spends any time in the c5 forced induction section on corvetteforum knows there are some hardcore, high hp wrench turners who know their stuff, including a few gents who designed BETTER kits using ProCharger's head units. It's a shame too because they have a great product, and their newer kits are actually becoming much better in terms of overall quality. An attitude adjustment could really help them get more sales. They even redesigned the c5 kit to be much better. Of course whoever I talked to on the phone a while back wouldn't sell me their new stage 2 bracket, they wanted me to buy a whole new kit. A vendor on this board luckily was able to quote me a price, but I eventually decided to spend the extra $$$ to get the best and went with the ECS bracket instead, and truth be told I was pissed about getting the run-around and having to go to someone else to get the part I wanted so my decision was partly out of spite.
I don't know much about the F-Body setups, but since Bob at EPP has a custom front-mount intercooler kit available for sale I'm guessing the base ProCharger kit is just as crappy as their original c5 kits.
They make good power, they sound awesome, and they use their own oil. But make sure you buy a custom kit like the one from EPP, and make sure you buy from a reputable/experienced tuner who can be your tech support. But I would definately go with a ProCharger head unit, and do yourself a favor and spend the extra $200 now to get a D1SC instead of a P1SC. If you wait to upgrade, you're only option to change is ProCharger and they'll charge you $1500 to upgrade the head unit.
Their kits leave much to be desired. Private vendors like A&A and ECS had to make custom kits for C5s because the ProCharger kit sucked. Then there was a scuffle between them because ProCharger wanted people to buy their kit and they wouldn't just sell the head units to a&a or ecs anymore. I'm not going to say the move was wrong, but it is a FACT that a few innocent customers were caught in the crossfire and left without head units because ProCharger refused to ship them. Their service also leaves a lot to be desired. Actually, unless you spend a ton of $$$ with them it's usually non-existant. I gave up trying to get anything out of them long ago. And I've been in arguments here with someone who apparently works there, and his attitude was disgusting not to mention ignorant. Instead of addressing the problem he just blew off an entire group of perfomance enthusiasts and insulted their mechanical abilities. Anyone who spends any time in the c5 forced induction section on corvetteforum knows there are some hardcore, high hp wrench turners who know their stuff, including a few gents who designed BETTER kits using ProCharger's head units. It's a shame too because they have a great product, and their newer kits are actually becoming much better in terms of overall quality. An attitude adjustment could really help them get more sales. They even redesigned the c5 kit to be much better. Of course whoever I talked to on the phone a while back wouldn't sell me their new stage 2 bracket, they wanted me to buy a whole new kit. A vendor on this board luckily was able to quote me a price, but I eventually decided to spend the extra $$$ to get the best and went with the ECS bracket instead, and truth be told I was pissed about getting the run-around and having to go to someone else to get the part I wanted so my decision was partly out of spite.
I don't know much about the F-Body setups, but since Bob at EPP has a custom front-mount intercooler kit available for sale I'm guessing the base ProCharger kit is just as crappy as their original c5 kits.
They make good power, they sound awesome, and they use their own oil. But make sure you buy a custom kit like the one from EPP, and make sure you buy from a reputable/experienced tuner who can be your tech support. But I would definately go with a ProCharger head unit, and do yourself a favor and spend the extra $200 now to get a D1SC instead of a P1SC. If you wait to upgrade, you're only option to change is ProCharger and they'll charge you $1500 to upgrade the head unit.
06-19-2007, 01:57 PM
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I went with a Procharger from EPP because I didn't want to cut my hood and drill my oil pan. And all the other reasons above. Plus I didn't want to cover my engine with the blower.
06-19-2007, 04:19 PM
#11
Originally Posted by Got Me SOM
The Vortech will get oil temp up quicker to the head unit, if it were to "fail" the particles would get caught in the oil filter. There is nothing wrong with running engine oil to the head unit. If that were the case why would people run engine oil to turbos... Air to Water will keep you running cool especially in hot weather conditions and city driving.
The only reasons the ATI units perform better ie make more hp is because there headunits push out more cfm's..If the Vortech pushed out the same amount of cfm's (apples to apples) they would probably match the performance or possibly exceed.
From the common sense standpoint lets be factual here ATI is a sponsor here and they push their product very hard and they have a lot of minions, Vortech doesn't advertise at all.
I'm not hating on ATI, I like their stuff and would have went with their product had they not had lots of belt alignment problems, belt slipping problems, bad tensioner setups, 6 rib setups etc etc. They had to redesign their kit because of so many issues. This was back in 2003 when I was shopping.
I bought my kit cause I got a really good deal on it used and have had no problems with it from day one.
I think my car makes power considering my blower is smaller than the P1, I guess that attests to how efficient my set up is. That was with 18"wheels on the front too.
just know that you will need a really good fuel system and your drivetrain will start to weaken up and fail as you go up with power.
Air to Water will keep you running cool especially in hot weather conditions and city driving.The only reasons the ATI units perform better ie make more hp is because there headunits push out more cfm's..If the Vortech pushed out the same amount of cfm's (apples to apples) they would probably match the performance or possibly exceed.
From the common sense standpoint lets be factual here ATI is a sponsor here and they push their product very hard and they have a lot of minions, Vortech doesn't advertise at all.
I'm not hating on ATI, I like their stuff and would have went with their product had they not had lots of belt alignment problems, belt slipping problems, bad tensioner setups, 6 rib setups etc etc. They had to redesign their kit because of so many issues. This was back in 2003 when I was shopping.
I bought my kit cause I got a really good deal on it used and have had no problems with it from day one.
I think my car makes power considering my blower is smaller than the P1, I guess that attests to how efficient my set up is. That was with 18"wheels on the front too.
just know that you will need a really good fuel system and your drivetrain will start to weaken up and fail as you go up with power.
There are ATI 'minions' because the kits work fairly well, there are also Vortech and turbo minions, cant argue with results and for the most part its about 50/50 on the popularity of either out of LS1tech-land. You donr see many Vortech kits anymore because most have far exceeded the capabilty of what they G trims can put out on these. 5 years ago they were a lot more popular.
I'll let everyone in on a big secret, its not whether its a Vortech or ATI, turbo or blower, NA or nitrous, the person putting the car together and tuning it is far more important then the quality of the head unit or other parts. I have heard the same amount of complaints from both camps over the years in quality and service. Personally I have never had a problem with ATI ot Vortech's people, everyone has their moments on both ends of that..
06-19-2007, 04:32 PM
#12
Exactly KP.
Why bother with the Vortech when the ATI is capable of so much more power?
Like kp said, the combo with a proper tune is where the difference is. You could have the parts to make 1000 rwhp but have it botched by a bad tune or the wrong cam, etc.
Why bother with the Vortech when the ATI is capable of so much more power?
Like kp said, the combo with a proper tune is where the difference is. You could have the parts to make 1000 rwhp but have it botched by a bad tune or the wrong cam, etc.
06-19-2007, 05:43 PM
#13
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Originally Posted by TS6
Exactly KP.
Why bother with the Vortech when the ATI is capable of so much more power?
Why bother with the Vortech when the ATI is capable of so much more power?
Airflow is airflow.
06-19-2007, 06:04 PM
#14
Originally Posted by stevieturbo
Size for size......can you explain how this is the case ?
Airflow is airflow.
Airflow is airflow.
I would assume he was talking about off the shelf kits, far as I know Vortech doesnt sell an F-body kit with a YSi..
06-19-2007, 06:17 PM
#16
Originally Posted by stevieturbo
Its a pity they didnt make all the blowers a universal fitment....
Wouldnt that be handy !
Wouldnt that be handy !
06-19-2007, 08:10 PM
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the d1sc package bob has put together is hard to beat in value since you can have a 500rwhp car with very normal conditions that can go up to 700rwhp no sweat. the downfall of the vortech unit is the fact they put such small blowers on their kits and they used oil fro mthe engine. thats not a big deal, just a pain in the *** to install. if vortech used a blower that flowed as much as a d1sc or at least p1sc it would have sold much better. o well i got mine with fuel and gauges and extras for 3200 shipped so im not complaining. vortech woot
06-19-2007, 09:14 PM
#19
KP said it pretty good. But I would just look at your goals and say well youare almost at 400CI and relize the G-trim is too small to do anything really impressive for you and get a D1 or depending on your goals etc... an F1C etc... It's not about the maker they both have make great products ATI has a lot more to offer a person with an F-body in as far as choices and power ranges that you may want to look at, but IMO Definatly no smaller than a D1.
Jeff
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06-19-2007, 11:32 PM
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Well i just recently dyno'd some customers C5's witht the 2 most popular kits for the C5-the Vortech and the Novi. The Vortech was actually a JT trim. Bottom line both blowers have a very hard time making 16 psi on a 402 with either of these C5 kits. These guys both wanted big power-guess what there both 100 rwhp shy of my 347 with a F1R. Go figure. I'll be testing Procharger's newer C5 bracket very soon as well-if your not happy with the offerings make your voice heard-it doesn't fall on deaf ears. Oh and another thing-I got a used D1SC coming soon too-I bet yeah it will make more power on a 347 than the JT and the Novi on a 402-ain't the internet grand!!!