OK, so if you read my last post you know that my idler came lose and I wasn't able to build any boost.

Both items are fixed as far as I know:

*The vacuum line issue where I would never see over (-10) psi of vac was bacause I taped into the wrong line on the check valve. There are three vacuum lines and and I switched from the one on the side to the one on the bottom(black side of the check valve). That part worked perfectly! I took a pic and will post it up a little later.

*The idler puller doesn't seem to be damaged. I put it back on and tighened it down really well. It hasn't given me a problem since. However it sounds like it's making a rattling noise. I don't think this is damage cause I remember it making that noise before it came loose. Is this a normal sound for a procharger?


Well I was able to get her up to 6psi of boost which was such a freakin rush! I swear that was the coolest ride in a car I have ever taken. Having never been in a boosted car before I didn't know what to expect. Well aside from the grin, which was plastered on my face the entire time, it felt like I was hooked up to a sling shot and was just getting pulled further and further back in my seat! It's hard to exlain the feeling, but I'm sure if any group of people could empathize, it's you guys!

New Issues:

The day wasn't all fun and games, a new problem arose. After the run were I was able to get her up to 6 psi, I had a problem. I was gettinging into her and then all the sudden the car lost a little power, I smelt a rubber/oil kind of smell and then my power steering was gone. I was like "Oh ****!". The engine and S/C were both seemingly running fine which was a relief, so I figured I lost the acc. belt. Turns out I spin the crank pully off!

How the hell did that happen? I tightened the crap out of that pully and the bolt ATI gave me already came with lock tight on it. So we go get some tools and in the middle of a parking lot put the pully back on. The S/C pully had a very slight wobble to it(very slight). I took it for a test run and a few miles down the road The belts started to squeak and a rattling sound came up. So bac to the parking lot only to find the S/C crank pully was loose AGAIN and wobbling bad!

So bac under the car and tighten it down again. Now I have the S/C crank pully on very tight but it's wobbling bad so I creap it home last night and the belt squeak is very loud.

So here are my questions:

*Is the belt squeak due to the S/C pully not being flush?

*Am I not putting the S/C crank pully on right? How much torque should I be putting on that bolt?

*Is there any sort of special locktite I should be using?

*How do you guys go about cleaning the inside of the stock crank pully to make sure the S/C crank pully sits perfectly flush?

*How much pully wobble is too much?

I'm gonna get working on this later this afternoon. Hopefully this will be the last of my Procharger growing pains

Thanks for your help,
Mike

 

Glad to hear you fixed your gage problem.

Sounds like your bolt is too long and you are running it in hitting the bottom before it pulls the pulley tight. Might want to get a couple of large washers to add to the bolt. Home Depot Speed Shop or Lowes High Performance should have large washers

Good luck.

How much timing have you pulled from the base timing map? Hate to hear you have KR problems when you get all the other problems fix.

 

Thanks

I went out and got some washers and will give this a try.

Would it be a better idea to go back to the stock crank bolt since that is shorter or try a couple of washers on the ATI bolt?


So far I haven't touched the stock timing tables. I figured once I get all the bugs worked out of the system, then I can go ahead and fine tune the PCM for the dyno. The only real tuning I've done is to set my IFR tables to a flat 5.51 across the board, Change my PE table from 1.2403 to 1.2500 to bring me closer if not below a 12:1 AFR, and I completed my MAF table.

I've been using ATAP to log Ltrms and will hopefully be able to get those in line then I can hop on the dyno and get the real tuning done.

Thanks for the help AG,
BH

 

Stock bolt won't be long enough to get enough threads in to be secure. Use the bolts and some Loctite on the threads after you make sure it's not hitting the bottom. Might have put it in a couple of times to make sure it's right. I was lucky that the ATI bolt worked the first time. I just removed the pulley and it was a pain to remove before I removed the crank pulley.

I think you need to pull timing, "hint hint" From .6gms/cyl to 1.2gms/cyl my timing map goes from -1 to -12* It starts at 2000rpm to redline.

Running lean is bad, but running too much timing can be just as bad. Hate to see you pop the motor before you get to the dyno, you can always add the timing back in on the dyno, it's best to work up to KR than trying to work down.

Anyone else please jump in here with some advice on timing. I had mine tuned for a very safe street tune. It was more important for the engine to last vice get close to edge.

Good luck on the dyno, let us know what kind of numbers you get.

 

I don't have anymore help for ya, never had bolt problems. Pulling timing is a good idea. If you go too far and/or make it too rich, you'll probably notice it sputtering at wot, just needs a little less fuel/more timing. FWIW on 5#, my timing tables are a degree or 2 higher than stock here and there.

 

What dyno are you going to use?

AZZ

Where did you tune your car at. I was tuned before the COT was available with LS1 Edit, I am still a bit too rich and last time I drove 6 hours to be tuned. I see you are just up 64 and if there is local shop that would be great.

 

I hear ya. I've been monitoring my KR very closely. So far, nothing significant. But I'm sure once I got 99.6% TPS I'll get some.

To be honest I really don't know how to edit the tables. The only advice I've gotten is to subtract a couple of points across the board. But just subtracting timing out of every field seems like a very inexact method to adjusting my timing tables. How do you guys do it in Edit?

BH

 

Well I pulled the S/C crank pully and you can tell it was spun like a mother funchie! Not scared real bad or anything but the black paint was missing in a few areas. So I pulled it and cleaned the hell out of the stock crank pully. Remounted it, and added two extra washers on the bolt. Then tightened it down to 140 ft/lbs or torque. I started it up and the S/C pully was perfect! No wobble what so ever.

So hopefully this will be the last of the bugs.

BH

 

Glad it worked for ya

It only takes a little bit of Knock to ruin the engine in milliseconds.

 

AG, haven't been to a dyno yet. The only one local that wasn't strictly race cars closed down sometime over the winter. If the mms pulley doesn't get here soon (going on 4 months now ) I might get to dyno on 5#. Tuning was/is done by me on my local taxpayer-sponsored test track .

Hawk, to find out what cells to adjust the timing, you log rpm and maf low rate. Take the flow rate in g/s, multiply by 15 and divide by rpm. That gives you g/cyl, which you match up with rpm on the table and wa-la. Wot is the bottom area of the table, mainly around .7 and more g/cyl, in the rpm range you use. Glad the pulley is flat, but are you sure 140 ft.lbs. is right? My instructions said 40 ft.lbs. then 120 degrees. We made it tighter though, since it seemed a good bit less than what's used on stock/underdrive pullies.

 

Azz

You might want to check our local board in the shop section, we have a couple of shops that can help you down here. One has their ad at the top (can monitor A/F realtime and graph boost A/F for your run. The other is being built (he runs at VMP and has claimed he will have tuner that knows LS1 Edit there at the new shop). Might be worth the time and effort to get it on a dyno and really see what the blower is doing, vice trusting a gage. You never know when the "track" officals will show up and give yon invite to see the "manager"

Blown

Boost + stock timing = It's Load vs RPM, upper left is idle, lower right is WOT at high RPM, the lower right corner is where you would want to start pulling timing out. Not sure how many blocks there are right off the bat, but first couple would be -1 then -2 then -3 till you get to the bottom couple and far right where you might want to be -12.

Then ATAP it on a run and log air flow and RPM and KR to see if you have any problems areas. Then go back pull timing or add if you didn't have any KR. It's best to do it on a dyno where you can see real A/F vice what the NB 02 thinks it is. If you are hearing knock by your ear, you are well into the replace parts zone.

My best advice is once you exercise all the bugs out of the setup get it to a dyno and tune it, before my latest round of mods my car ran for a year without any problems. Tuning is the best money you can spend on your blower. I drove 6 hours up to Cartek to be tuned cause at the time there were no shops around here that knew anything about LS1 Edit, it was a fun car on the way up, but after the tune Had a friend that we would run neck and neck on Saturday evening, afterwards he just loved the way my taillights looked

 

Hey Casey,

I know 140 is high, but like you said, the stock bolt was much tighter than 40. So I just gave her some elbow grease and got it on there good and tight. It came off once, I don't want that to happen again. Any downside to using that much torque on the bolt?


Chris,

I appreciate you sending me those files. I've pretty much just copied your timing tables as they are way more conservative than my stock tables. Like you said it's probably best to have too little timing at first. I can always add timing as needed.

I'm still not exactly sure how to tweak and adjust the timing tables, at least as far as minor changes to individual cells. However I'm gonna log the hell out of the car and try to work on the things you guys suggested.

Thanks guys,
BH

 

The stock bolt is 240lb/ft. Crank down on it, I don't think you will hurt it. Oh yea, pun intended.

 

Yeah, what AG said. I was saying I thought 140 was not enough. 240 is a lot, I think you should be a lot closer to that number.

AG, I'll check out your site when I get off work, I really don't like the idea of having to drive to MD or NC just to get a dyno run.

 

For a blown application shouldn't you have your crank snout notched along with the pulley so you don't spin it. I know when going blown on my LT1 I had the crank and pulley notched.

 

Hey Mike, glad to hear you got most of your problems fixed. I've heard of that pulley problem being because of the bolt being too long. Do what they suggest and put a washer on there.

Also, I have a steel idler pulley that I got from camarogod98 on this board. Not going to be using it since I'm going the turbo route. Let me know if you wanna buy it off me. $50.

L8r!

 

Everything that I have seen regarding ATI's has said to pin the crank. If you don't do this, you will constantly be spinning the balancer because the more boost you get, the more force on the balancer.

 

You know I was wondering that myself. When I pulled the S/C crank pully it had three holes that look like they were intended for notches, but none were installed(or they fell out at some point).

I was able to get her up to 8psi last night(no knock by the way on 94 octane), and the belt and/or pully never seemed to slip once. So it looks like all is fixed.

Rob,
Thanks for the offer bro, however I purchased CamaroGod's steel idler pulley a while back. But I'll let you know if I hear of anyone that needs one.

Mike

 

I have run my car for over a year and never had a problem with the pulley slipping on the crank. I have a #8 tuner kit. When you dyno most will have a pressure transducer and be able to show you boost along with A/F. It's nice to plot out so you can see what exactly is going on, why you are going lean/rich and when.