I am aware of the issues GM was adressing when designing the LS1's, but they chose to use a cast oil pan instead of a stamped steel design and eliminated the need for a girdle. And the fact that a number of people have made well over 1k on the stock setup should say something and they did it with out this girdle. Tiago comes to mind right off the bat as he mad over 1k to the rear wheels with stock main caps and ARP main studs. It lasted several years before droping a sleave no main issues other than the fact they moved around quite a bit, but bearings looked good still from what he told me. And you call Speed Inc. a bunch of kids hmmm seems like the kids are doing something right there cars have been holding up and make killer power and I don't think they have ever used Demetri's girdle. They went to drag week with there shop car seems pretty durable for the kind of power they are making I mean they ran a number of 8.60 passes. So I think you are barking up the wrong tree when telling us what we need to do to make huge power. Where are your cars or test vehicles I don't see you posting up any good evidence to back up your statement just you gums a flappin over there. Show me an LS1 that makes over 1k to the wheels with your girdle and I'll show you one that does it with out it.

 

I have a girdle as well... Got it from Inspector in fact.

 

Edited a few things...... Keep this on track...
If people would like to try this product order it thru EPP or other site sponsors who carry it.

Thanks

Kyle

 

at what HP point would pinning the caps be necessary?

 

from what i have come to understand,
pinning the main caps and a girdle would be the wise choice for
a synergistic effect for hi hp ls motors.

 

Yeah you bought the first one I purchased and couldn't get MTI to install it and I wasn't really at the power level that I would have even needed anything but the stock setup with main studs. I just generally over kill things and like to try new things. I am not trying to talk people out of buying one although it may seem that way. I am just saying from my experienc with these two cars I own and have run with DM performance girdle, that there are other and probably just as good if not better methods of having a reliable high HP car.

 

I know which article you talking about, it was hot rod magazine, I actually had the pat pending a year before that article came out , when it was released, it was gm secret drawings on the ls1, and when I first seen it, I was amazed. It made me feel good That even Gm saw a need for such a piece.
when I was designing the girdle I was so happy you can get a piece of steel to fit under the oil pan with out with out any modification. it to took ten prototypes to make it work and countless thousands of dolors, on my part, I am still trying to recoup my initial investment, I have to put an order of 300 sets of custom arp studs , just to sell them at standard prices, I also make every girdle in the usa, I wish I can sell them at 100$ peice but every girdle is custom machined,its not just a flat piece of steel its a highly engineered piece, first you need to buy the steel, cold rolled 304 which is expensive, I never would think about making it out of 1010 like every other crappy girdle for mustangs, then you have laser cut it, machine the c bores, cut the 45* chamfer on the side, by the way the oil pan will not fit with out the chamfer, cut the rod relieves, which also acts to scrape excess oil of the rods, which adds 15 horse power on the high end (a well known fact), plus not to mention the girdle blocks windage which is good for another 10 horse (another well known fact).
then the hardest part of the whole machine process is to do is drill the dame oil dipstick tube hole.
its hard because the point were you start drill is at the edge of the plate and the ends up at the other edge,if the main cap was just a tad higher or lower you would have to machine the main caps, which would be an added cost to the consumer.
we are all lucky it worked out the way its does.
thanks stripper Z for your comments, but your car only runs 12.60 not bad for a bone stock z, but you should not be in the forced induction section your not fast enough!! just kidding
thanks Demetri

 

BRO most of the guys that run the girdle are making over 1000 horse power to the wheels on stock aluminum blocks for years and when I do have someone buy a new girdle its usually because he broke a main cap or his block separated from the mains and he does not want it to happen again. the reason your friend drop a sleeve is because the block twist and the sleeve separates from the block due to excessive torque, I bet if he ran a girdle it would of lasted a whole lot longer.
this girdle is not new, it 4 years old, one of my first customers was ronnie duke making 1500 horse , even the c5r block separate from the mains at a 1000 horsepower, you know my girdle is in Chevy HP this month, and they are doing a full build up later this year, this girdle will be around way longer than you and me.
if you dont want to use again fine, I dont care, just dont talk about this product, and all my customer who are not making this type of power and how long there motors are lasting because you dont know,Thats insulting to me, I not claiming I am an ls1 god, I just saying I thought of it first, and patented my design because it works and it works extremely well. I also think speed inc does awesome work, and they build some bad *** machines, they are the best in Chicago bar none.
also I would like to add my first race car was a 1970 442 455 stroked to 500inch, built by joe mondelo him self, making 750 on motor and guess what it had his girdle it was a beautiful piece that cost 2500$ installed , and that olds block had more nickel in it than any block produced today, and it still needed one.

 

Not doughting that his motor dropped a sleeve due to the block twisting that is a given I believe I didn't need to be an engineer to figure that is what most likely did it. I know how old your girdle is I purchaed one of the first one's like Redrumss said he bought that one from me. The two current ones looked a whole lot nicer the holes were atleast centered in the machined surface where the nuts apply presure! And as you stated it was GM's idea first they just didn't bother with it found another way just like a lot of others have. I believe a girdle can help strengthen a motor, but yours I don't think keeps them from twisting really I think it does distribute the load among all the mains to a point I still believe the motors twist and I feel pinning the mains will reduce that more than your girdle does is what my whole point was! So your product gets in GMHT they showcase a lot of parts, but congrats to you for them doing it with yours it is good advertisement for you! And by the way I believe this forum was founded on sharing information and I am sorry that you and I don't see things the same way, but if some one asks me what I think or has anyone used it well I have and will give my opinion and experience as I see fit and others can make up there own mind. I just recomend them to talk to a few of the experienced builders/racers like I have. GL BRO!

 

so do you think dm performance should engineer a girdle for the starter that are prone to cracking ears off blocks,i know the starter aint puttin down no 1000 ft lbs.if the block cant take the power form the starter that must say somthing about aluminum that gets weaker and weaker over time,let alone when your boosting hp #'s like yours.yeah im sure it will last,but as mondello and demetri states less wear on your bearings,especially if your bracket racing,not just flooring it here or there.i am scared just using my starter and your telling me your not scared when your motor is making that kind of power.if you love aluminum so much how come you dont use aluminum rods?or alum main caps?when i think of a ls1 i think of cheezzy pop can.now as far as the pin set up,did it ever hold 1500+ hp with stock caps,dm girdles have been proven again and again at that level.i do agree that both should be done along with complete cryogeniclly frozen short block.cryo freezing makes everything 2 and half times stronger.mondello has a cryo freezer.its pretty unbelievable we could even run motors like this considering on all the muscle car iron engines that were way stronger than aluminum and all of them had tons of nickel also need to be halfway hard blocked filled just to run 750 hp.also mondello makes high compresion,half hard block filled cryo bracket girdled motors that go 100K miles,when you cut corners on a bracket motor im sure it will do 10K maybe 20K miles,maybe more if not used for bracket or if you just floor it once in a while.i guess we should be lucky because if it was not for all the massaging we can do to the ls1 we all would have to run heavy iron or the expensive c5r block.thats all i gots to say.

 

The starters breaking the ears off hasn't been an issue for me or anyone I know of. The only ones I have herd of are when they have ben hydroed and people try to start them or any thing that would mechanically stop the motor from turning over no need to have to worry about it as you can always run a truck starter and you will not have that problem. The real problem isn't the block it is the starter. They put the thinest part facing the thickest part of the block and vice versa on the other side the thin starter ear breaks off, but the large side with the long bolt will not break something has to give and so the block breaks, but if you use a truck starter with both long bolts and the housing is beafy on both sides it will not do that. I have even run on on a friends car that had a leaking head gasket that filled up the cylinder with water when you shut it off and broke the block. He wasn't ready to pull it out at the time ran one bolt with a truck starter for about a year with out issue. Not right, but it worked and will save your blocks if you have your motor kick back or lock up. You can also buy an aftermarket starter if you choose. I believe in cyogeniclly treating some things I did all my parts in my trany and rearend and had them micronite polished. I would run aluminum rods you can on the street if you have them set up right I know people who have. No need for most applications. And the 1500 hp thing I believe there have been some Harland I know has been in the 12-1300 range and that was with a stock crank, most are having problems keeping the heads down at those power levels it wasn't an issue with the mains at all though.

 

i see alot of talk about the aluminum blocks needing pins. im running an iron 6.0.. do you still think this will be a good thing for me to do? at 1200 rwhp

 

For what they cost it is worth the peace of mind.

 

Wow......

 

i got a stock 6.0 block from the junkyard from a stock vehicle and you can see where the mains moved on it. I am sure dowels woulda prevented that but was surprised to see so much movement from a stocker. If it were from a manual trans vehicle, i woulda suspected thrust movement from the clutch but it was from an auto.
A place i think we get a lot of flex from with aluminum blocks is the motor mount area. No proof...just my internet rambling but there is a lot of pressure pulling/pushing on that are from cars with stock type mounts

 

.........LOL

 

Your wrong the main reason to run a girdle it to prevent the block from twisting, when the girdle is bolted up, it becomes part of the mains, the mains are bolted to the side of the block, and then you have the cast oil pan reinforcing the rails, now if you ran a sheet metal pan, it would diminishes the effectiveness of the girdle. as far as the cap movement when the girdle is on top. the cap is harder to move at the bottom because it is locked in place from arcing at the top when the girdle is on top of the cap. now with out the girdle in place the cap is free to move like a swing ,because of the two contact points IE the bolts in the side of the block.now with the girdle, it cant swing any more at the top, so it will limit the movement at the bottom (that is physics) ,but best way to eliminate the problem is to pin and then run the girdle. If you pin only I can see it becoming a stress riser in the main cap due to the forces involved and the sew saw action, now if you run a girdle with pinning , you will have a strong setup, I have a mechanical engineering Degree and my minor was in quantum physics.
I know what I am taking about, I can also draw you a picture.

 

As an aside, as Demetri is not a sponsor, if you want to buy his girdle EPP sells them, so call those guys.

ADMIN

 

yes epp can also install the girdle, they did a great build up last year, 715 horse at the rear with a d1sc, stock 346 with girdle and forge internals . the d1 was pushing 12-14 pounds of boost.
Just call bob at epp not only is he nice guy, they do the best work.

 

I also had my LS2 block & billet mains doweled just to be safe. The Girdle was just an added bonus to ensure we don't have any of those problems with the "weak" GM products