383 and APS input, advice, and questions.
383 and APS input, advice, and questions. My car is mostly a weekend warrior so it will see a ton of street use and a little but hard track use. My goal is to obtain the upper 6xx rwhp level or more and have plenty of off the line power and torque for around town driving. From what I have read and seen it is easier to get this level of power out of the APS kit with larger cubes without having to turn up the boost so high. I would love to have a 402 but I don’t think that is in my budget along with all the other things I need. I guess my question is would the extra cost of a 383 be worth it or not over the 347?
My build I hope will look something like this.
Callies Crank.
Callies Compstar rods.
Mahle pistons.
Total seal rings.
Clevite Tri-armor rod and main bearings.
Clevite cam bearings.
ARP main studs with maybe a DM performance girdle plate.
ARP head studs.
GM 317 heads.
GM new 5 layer head gaskets or the Fel-pro ones.
Manley valves.
Partiot Gold extreme dual spring kit.
Harland sharp rockers.
TSP stock length pushrods.
GM Cadillac lifters.
Melling oil pump.
LS2 timing chain.
Cam is still in the air right now.
Stock LS6 intake and TB.
Speed inc rails.
Motron 60 pound injectors.
Lonnies double pumper kit with wireing kit.
Magnafuel regulator.
Roadrunner PCM with EFI live speed density tunning.
And of course the APS kit it's self.
My build I hope will look something like this.
Callies Crank.
Callies Compstar rods.
Mahle pistons.
Total seal rings.
Clevite Tri-armor rod and main bearings.
Clevite cam bearings.
ARP main studs with maybe a DM performance girdle plate.
ARP head studs.
GM 317 heads.
GM new 5 layer head gaskets or the Fel-pro ones.
Manley valves.
Partiot Gold extreme dual spring kit.
Harland sharp rockers.
TSP stock length pushrods.
GM Cadillac lifters.
Melling oil pump.
LS2 timing chain.
Cam is still in the air right now.
Stock LS6 intake and TB.
Speed inc rails.
Motron 60 pound injectors.
Lonnies double pumper kit with wireing kit.
Magnafuel regulator.
Roadrunner PCM with EFI live speed density tunning.
And of course the APS kit it's self.
From what I've seen people run on here, I'm pretty sure the answer is no. Normally, people do 370's for boost, not 383's, but most people have 346/347's that I've seen. APS, I'm pretty sure I've read on here, would reccomend a 370 over a 383 or 402 even. Call and ask them. Also ask them what cam to run.
I guess what I am trying to figure out for myself is would the gain from going to a 383 be worth it over a 347. I know if I was talking about a 402 that size of a jump is, potentially more worth it as can be seen in cars like JMBLOWNWS6.
Also I have searched but not many have really done 383's on turbo cars unlike supercharging. Is there something I am missing as to why 383's aren't very popular for turbos and if so please point me in the right direction as I have searched pretty far back but maybe I haven't gone far enough back? I was looking at posts from 05 about someone doing a 383 and T76 but it didn't have much of a conclusion.
I don't think APS or anyone else is going to keep dissing the standard APS kit anymore on a 346,370,402 or 408.Heck it might even do a decent job on a 427.JMs car is proof for sure. 10.21 at 137mph at only 10psi. Thats hauling the mail. And lots left in it..He wasn't revving to even 6000 and he can dial in another 8 pounds or so.And he is an auto so has higher drivetrain losses than m6.
Not really sure why noone messes with 383 much. Think most guys go to the ls2 and usually do a 402. Lots of guys do a 6.0 iron block and use stock crank and stay with 370. I just want to go one step farther and do a 408 iron block with forged crank. I am an overkill kind of guy. Not sure the 6.0 can go 427 very reliably for FI and don't want to go ls2 block or lsx so guess just be happy with 408.
There is zero reason the aps kit would not work great on a 383 so feel free to do that sure you will be impressed. You will gain torque on and off boost, you will gain spool up
and you should be able to make the same power as smaller engine at less boost.
You can get high power as I said with just about any reasonable size with the twin kit. And Peter is talking idea rod to stroke ratios or whatever. I have heard that before but would not overly worry about it. The main APS site says the system is suited for bigger engines and thought mentioned 4xx range.
Remember you can also do a 6.0 iron pretty cheap if you stick to stock crank.The stock cranks in the 6.0 have gone like 1000 engine hp.Then sell off your old motor to recoup some of the costs. I am just selling off my very low mileage ls1 engine. That should pay half the new shortblock or buy me my new strange dana 60.
Not really sure why noone messes with 383 much. Think most guys go to the ls2 and usually do a 402. Lots of guys do a 6.0 iron block and use stock crank and stay with 370. I just want to go one step farther and do a 408 iron block with forged crank. I am an overkill kind of guy. Not sure the 6.0 can go 427 very reliably for FI and don't want to go ls2 block or lsx so guess just be happy with 408.
There is zero reason the aps kit would not work great on a 383 so feel free to do that sure you will be impressed. You will gain torque on and off boost, you will gain spool up
and you should be able to make the same power as smaller engine at less boost.
You can get high power as I said with just about any reasonable size with the twin kit. And Peter is talking idea rod to stroke ratios or whatever. I have heard that before but would not overly worry about it. The main APS site says the system is suited for bigger engines and thought mentioned 4xx range.
Remember you can also do a 6.0 iron pretty cheap if you stick to stock crank.The stock cranks in the 6.0 have gone like 1000 engine hp.Then sell off your old motor to recoup some of the costs. I am just selling off my very low mileage ls1 engine. That should pay half the new shortblock or buy me my new strange dana 60.
I don't think APS or anyone else is going to keep dissing the standard APS kit anymore on a 346,370,402 or 408.Heck it might even do a decent job on a 427.JMs car is proof for sure. 10.21 at 137mph at only 10psi. Thats hauling the mail. And lots left in it..He wasn't revving to even 6000 and he can dial in another 8 pounds or so.And he is an auto so has higher drivetrain losses than m6.
I do agree, JM's car is hauling the mail, and it shows that the standard kit will work no problem with a larger motor at 10 psi. We don't know yet what will happen or what the limit is when he turns it up.
I am completely happy with my APS kit, but am running on the stock bottom end for now. When it lets go, I will most likely be building a 347. There is no lack of tire shredding torque from a smaller motor with this kit and an auto. The turbos spool up FAST.
True we have not seen how high and how much power can be achieved at higher boost on bigger engines. So far APS dynos are on the forged 346. And just saw another one similar to JMs on that other 402 from EPP at 9.5 psi. So it may not get to 18psi. I have seen these 20gs boosted way past 20psi on dsm applications but of course that was single turbo on a 2.0 litre engine.
It will be interesting for sure. Of course in the real world I will be more than pleased to do a low 10 or high 9 at only 10psi in my planned 408. Most guys don't think want to go faster than 10s anyway on a street car. Thats freakin fast no matter how you look at it and especially in an almost two ton car that JMs raceweight was. And 9s is just stupid fast for the average guy.
So hoping to see exactly what boost he can get. I do think we have seen some higher boost numbers from LOBOOST and his GTO also. Forget what size engine he has don't think its a 402 ..366 or whatever I think.
It will be interesting for sure. Of course in the real world I will be more than pleased to do a low 10 or high 9 at only 10psi in my planned 408. Most guys don't think want to go faster than 10s anyway on a street car. Thats freakin fast no matter how you look at it and especially in an almost two ton car that JMs raceweight was. And 9s is just stupid fast for the average guy.
So hoping to see exactly what boost he can get. I do think we have seen some higher boost numbers from LOBOOST and his GTO also. Forget what size engine he has don't think its a 402 ..366 or whatever I think.
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Verdad Gallardo Thanks a bunch everyone for your input and help I hope to get this thing rolling soon as I have already been stock pilling alot of parts.
From what I've seen people run on here, I'm pretty sure the answer is no. Normally, people do 370's for boost, not 383's, but most people have 346/347's that I've seen. APS, I'm pretty sure I've read on here, would reccomend a 370 over a 383 or 402 even. Call and ask them. Also ask them what cam to run.
Peter
