Rob Raymer

Since I could not post in the Locked thread, I will cut and paste Warbird's quote, and respond:

by Warbird;
"I have been told something similar and this could also be be part of the over-heating issue, this is related to the other side of the car. The passenger side manifold is simply to restrictive making the engine work harder thus generating more heat. I am replacing the passenger side with a customized header to hopefully equalize flow better. I hope this works because I am taking the car back too regularly to replace parts

I've seen Rob's original kit and there are quite a few differences (insert cutting cost here). The cross over pipe is 2 1/2" Rob's first had 3" pipe, the original car had a header on the passenger side we get a stock manifold

Paul" End Quote

I don't know where you get your information, but I really wish you would pick up the phone, or email me direct. EVERY SINGLE THING YOU SAID HERE IS WRONG! I mean, NONE of it is even close to accurate!!!

1. The passenger manifold is not too restrictive. At least not the '01-02 model manifold. Which is what we designed the kit to work with, and include it as well. PORTED even! However, ARE did not opt for that when they ordered your kit. They said they would supply the manifold and port it themselves!!!! That's why we gave them credit for it when they bought the kit! You and ARE definitely have some communication issues that need to be sorted out.

2. We tried a JBA shorty header on the passenger side and gained nothing. EGT's were the same, and therefore showed no difference in heat.

3. My car NEVER had anything but the STOCK '98, UNPORTED, restrictive passenger manifold when it made 707rwhp. Again, where do you get your bogus information???

4. My crossover pipe was only a 2" pipe!! Not a 3" EVER! And yours is a 2 1/4"!! My car now has the 2 1/4" on it as well, but not when it made 707rwhp.

Here's another quote I need to reply to:

by vhgjk123;
"I emailed harry at precision and he replied today. From what I can tell he said that basically they make the turbo and then sell them to a distributor who sells them to LS1motorsports. He said that he made a copy of my email and gave it to the company that supplies ls1motorsports and told them to contact me. I will update on that situation."
-End Quote -

This is apparently a misunderstanding also. We DO buy direct from Precison. Nobody else. But Precision buys the housing from someone else, and they are basically the middlemen on the housings. We are STILL waiting on turbos to show up from Precision. We have had them on order with Precision now for over 2 months!! Two turbos showed up last week, and Precison says they can't get them to us any faster. We are at their mercy. We have EVERYONE's turbo kits IN STOCK. We are just waiting on turbos.

I apologize, and I wish I could do something about it. Unfortunately, this is the only housing that will fit our kit.



Now, what else do you care to discuss? Because I'm tired of getting blamed for others' mistakes.

Rob Raymer

Warbird - I just read on the other board that you are using a Greddy Profec B boost controler??? Why have you not posted that before?? I could have told you that was a problem. We tried it on Shawn's car over a year ago and had boost issues. We went back to the manual controller (which is what I told ARE to use), and had NO PROBLEMS. Although, with a crossover leak, you were still going to have boost problems, but the Profec B does not work well with the HKS wastegate.

Please post all of the details from now on. It might save you some money.

Black LS1 T/A

It really sounds like this issue should be discussed over the phone between Warbird and Rob. Airing this on the boards is not productive when there seems to be so much miscommunication and finger-pointing going around.

If you guys can discuss issues objectively where it benefits others buying the QMP kit, discussing it would be good.

Try stepping back from the keyboard and look at things objectively. Then... discuss factually.

If you reply Warbird, try putting on your happy face.

01 SS Jay

I have to disagree with you there, this is the perfect place for this conversation. Rob has every right to defend his kit publicly, just like Warbird has the right to complain about the kit publicly.

Rob Raymer

Exactly. I mean there are AT LEAST 4 threads on this site alone with virtually nothing but inaccurate, unproven, negative claims about me and our turbo kit. Not once has anyone stated that the posting was not helpful, until after I responded.

I have facts to back me up. I'll keep it civil, but I won't tolerate lies and/or flaming towards me, my employees, or our kit.

The truth is out there.

XLR8NSS

iTrader: (4)

Hey Rob

Check your email real quick for a message from xlr8nss@bellatlantic.net

Thanks

John

PS - Sorry to butt in to this serious thread.

White_Hawk

iTrader: (3)

Rob, I still have a couple questions about the kit. Is the manual boost controller part of the kit? I didn't see anything on the website about how boost control is handled. Also, the burning of the plug wires he mentioned. Is this something that can be fixed with some sleeves on the plugwires, or is this an installation issue specific to Warbirds setup.

Thanks for the info.

-Geoff

RICE ETR

iTrader: (3)

I DO believe this sort of stuff should be posted so everyone can see...however when I posted back to you (on the other site), I was accused of not knowing what I was talking about and then made invisible.

I think you should post over here more since we are on even ground now.

Think about it...on the other site... we have a sponsor who is selling his kit in a forum that HE moderates and has the power to remove anything/anyone that stands the chance of hurting his business even though it may be true and SHOULD be displayed for all to see.
I think that's what they call a monopoly...

Once again we have someone (Warbird) who spent their hard earned $$$ to buy YOUR kit... is having some problems with it... spends his $$$$ and time AGAIN to resolve the problems with your kit and now he is wrong??.....hmmm sounds familiar....

I applaud Warbird/ARE/MM/others for going through all this trouble to figure out what is going on with the kit... as you should too since you are making money on their free R&D.
You really should stop sending that extra money to SS00doesnothaveaCLUE....his QMP sales pitch is getting old.

rodent

iTrader: (1)

I'm VERY GLAD Rob posted here. I was about ready to buy a shorty header since I thought my stock 02 header was too restrictive.

I only wish all vendors did this.

I'm not sure what the problem is but I'd like to keep seeing the progress on every QMP kit here since I have one sitting in my garage waiting to be installed.

Thanks for coming over here Rob.

Warbird

OK Rob I'll respond in a civil manner here's my

We spent a whole night with a flurry of threads about the problems with my car on LS1.com, you asked a ton of questions about my car which I answered and never once did you ask about how I control boost, I'm not the turbo guru here and I'm certainly not clairvoyant. If that was a problem in the past it should have been your first comment. I'm glad you responded but don't you dare start blaming anyone else for these problems. ARE has done tons of research to try to fix my car and I guarantee they are in the hole dollar wise on this car. If you want to step up to the plate we can discuss them. ARE has fixed many of the problems and a ton of these are issues that you were never forthcoming about and I subsequently discovered my car was by no means unusual with them. I am still stinging from your oil smoking answer to Wade about the fact that I shouldn't worry about it because they all do that. You know how to get a hold of me and I haven't seen you try to deal with these issues, have you been in a Monastery for the last 2 months? To make it easy my cell phone is (up long enough) can't be any clearer than that.

If it helps here are all the pertinent specs on my car for starters including model.

1998 Formula WS6 6 speed, fully options including AC, and cruise control (never mentioned that had to be relocated).

Engine:
LS6 Block, LS1 ported heads
LS6 Intake
QMP supplied 85mm Maf
414 4.060 bore X 4.000 stroke
Ross Dished pistons 9:1 compression
ARE Stage II Heada 2.05 intake X 1.60 exhaust
Cam 228/228 573/573 114
ARE ported oil pump
Walboro 340 intank fuel pump
Autometer Fuel Pressure and boost gauge in pillar pod
SLP Rad
PCV one way valve
BB Triflow exhaust

Turbo
PTE T74 Qtrim

Turbo Modifications
Tilton Oil Scavenging pump
Mac Shorty Header Passenger side
0.080mm oil restrictor
Welded crossover pipe

Lets Start

There was no need to buy a stock ported 2001 passenger side manifold, ARE had a ton of them lying around and used one exactly as per you instructions on my car. I live 20 minutes from ARE and watched them put my car together, I don't think I have any communication issues there, however I have been present on a number of occasions when you spoke with Wade and did hear those conversations.

If there was no restriction on the passenger side could you please explain the back to back dyno I did and reported on. I dynoed with the 2001 manifold made a max of 8 psi dropping off to 5 psi with a steady 11.9:1 AF, switched to a MAC shorty header in the same day and my AF dropped 10.4:1, boost went up to 12 psi and held steady outside of a 2 psi drop at 5800 rpm. My little 47 lb/hr injector duty cycle went from 97% down to 80%. Sorry but I would have to say that is significant. No other changes were made to the car and we checked for exhaust leaks both times. The only logical conclusion was that something worked. When I get back from Holiday, 2 weeks from Friday my car will be retuned back to 11.9:1 AF and I seriously doubt that when it can make the same power that rich that it won't pick up a ton on the retune. There will be no adjustments on the retune either.

Rob I have seen your car up close and personal and have talked to you face to face, I also saw it dyno, it didn't even come close to resembling my set up. If you want to argue the point fine all cars change. What does it make now?

The biggest issues I have had with this car are the oil scavenge problem fixed by ARE after you basically blew us off. You offered no help until Wade called PTE and they were willing to inspect the seals, but of course my car would be down for at minimum 2 weeks with shipping back and forth etc. I was not willing to take it apart so ARE talked to some of the turbo shops locally and they made it clear when they saw the location of the turbo relative to the oil pan and told us simply that a gravity scavenge system will not work with that setup. If the seals were bad the car would still smoke after the pump was installed and of course it did not. My car has a wonderful penchant for overheating, as do many other of you customers, QMP never ever indicated that this was a potential problem until it hit these sites. I am still fighting this one but slowly getting closer. Nothing in the way my car sits is any different than the thousands of others on the sreet.

The sorest issue I have with this whole experience is the fact that you and ARE with me present always and I mean always discussed a T76 Ball Bearing Turbo, it was not until much later when I was complaining about my issues that you posted that I did not even have that turbo but another lesser T74 model. Even that night when we ordered the turbo and Wade called you to discuss my motor setup and which turbo would work best you informed him, with me sitting there on the phone that my motor was pretty big for a T63 and I really need the T76. I am the most upset about the fact that you never informed me upon shipping, delivery, install and subsequent calls that was not the turbo in my car and I only found out about it on a post you made in reply to me on the other site wat after the fact. BTW I have never asked you for a return or anything maybe I should have.

Maybe I would be a lot more tolerant if you stopped blaming ARE for everything and instead assumed some of the responsibility for yourself. I guess with ARE taking it in the teeth these days that becomes easy. I will have to say that Wade has been doing an excellent job of an extremely tough transition from the previous ownership and can't make everybody happy. I wish he could but that's not possible. You are talking about a shop that builds some of the fastest and most reliable LS1/LT1 cars anywhere and you will find ARE built motors on every list you look at, FI, NO2, NA etc. These guys know FI very well, and have their own C5 TT kit and have worked with just about every other one out there. They have followed you instructions to the letter and when that didn't work they found their own fixes.

Stop trying to turn this into a "I have a problem with ARE" thread and keep it to a factual "Why doesn't my QMP kit perform up to expectations" thread.

You have my number and I'd be happy to talk to you.

Paul

Rob Raymer

Okay, in order:

1. Your car IS unusual to the problems you stated. Who else had their steering shaft come off? Who else has overheating issues? Who else had a leak at the crossover that couldn't be fixed by tightening a clamp??

2. What do you mean "I know how to get a hold of you"?? I don't even know your name! I have never even spoken to you once that I know of, except during your public outbreaks to slam me. Why should I have to try and get a hold of you?? We have business hours and a toll free number. Use it.

3. I didn't tell Wade "don't worry about the smoke on decel", I told Wade that Precision told ME THAT about my BUICK with my T-74! I told Wade that he should call PTE and explain the whole situation to them personally, and see what they could come up with. That was the last I heard about it. Why is it my responsibility to follow up on it with Wade?? Mightymouse's turbo was built incorrectly by PTE from day one...it's possible that yours was too. No way to know without having it checked out.

4. Regarding the shorty header...YOU posted that at the same time you installed the header, you also welded the leaking crossover pipe. But you also said that the leak wasn't big enough to make the difference, so "it had to be the header that made it hold boost". That's a crock. The header simply can't do that! Ask any turbo shop.

5. If you did actually see my car "up close and personal", then where in the hell do you get off saying mine had a header on it and a 3" crossover??? IT NEVER HAD A HEADER ON IT OR A 3" CROSSOVER! (except when we swapped the header on the dyno, and then pulled it back off. And I know for a fact you weren't there) So stop making things up. Better yet, please explain to everyone why you made it up in the first place!

6. Oil drain. Again, only your car has this problem. Mightymouse tried the scavenge pump, and it didn't change anything. Ask him. You two are the only two people who have had smoking issues, and you both have ARE motors. I'm saying that it's the reason, I'm just saying what they have in common. So I'd like to know why you are SO positive it is the drain setup?? Why doesn't my car have the problem? Or all of teh other people with our kit who post here??? Please tell us.

7. Regarding overheating - Who's car overheats besides yours?? This is the first I have ever heard about it. Go to LS1.com and read Shawn's post about his car with the kit. 30,000 miles with it, everyday driven, been to Florida in the Summer twice for vacation, NEVER overheated. Please, if you are going to claim that our kit has "a wonderful penchant for overheating", please back up those claims. Who else's car overheats?? I'm getting sick of the generalized, false statements. Everyone is looking for facts here, but I am the only one giving them.

8. I'll say this one more time. WE HAVE NEVER OFFERED A T-76 TURBO, OR A BALL BEARING TURBO OPTION. PERIOD! I have no idea what you and ARE talked about. They ordered a T-74 Tuner Kit. They knew it, we discussed it, and that's all that was EVER discussed. End of that subject. So stop with the he said, she said crap. And by the way, there is only a 50HP difference in max rating between a 74 and a 76 anyway. (900 vs 950 max)
In fact, your problem should be with Wade on that one, NOT ME! Why don't you ask him to show you the invoice from us on the kit?? He has it. It clearly says "T-74 Tuner Kit". What does your invoice say?? If it says "T-76 ball bearing", I guess that's what he owes you. If not, why wouldn't he have said something before we shipped the kit? We faxed an invoice to Wade first, and then they sent us a check. Then the kit shipped about a week later. HOW IN THE HELL CAN YOU BLAME ME?????

Oh, and about the boost controller...I TOLD A.R.E. NOT TO USE THE GREDDY! I told Barry specifically to use the same manual controllers we use. I'm a little too far from Canada to drive by and make sure they did what I told them to do. So again I ask you, HOW IN THE HELL IS THAT MY FAULT???

We'll let the people be the judge here.

Rob Raymer

I'll tell you one more time RICE ETR, I had NOTHING to do with you getting made invisible on LS1.com. The other mods did it, because all you do is stick your nose in where it doesn't belong, and start flame wars. Just like you are doing now. Why don't you ask Mightymouse? He can tell you I'm not the one who stunned you.

Lastly, who are these "others" you and Warbird keep talking about?? So far, I am only aware of two people with problems with our kit. MM and Warbird. Mightmyouse doesn't even know what engine he has in his car, the valve sizes, port work, cam, compression, etc. on his engine that ARE built! And ARE can't even tell him! Yet, his problems MUST HAVE BEEN CAUSED BY OUR KIT! NO WAY it could be an engine problem, huh?
And I have already given answers to Warbird's problems.

So please tell us, WHO ARE THE "OTHERS" YOU KEEP REFERRING TO?????

Anxiously waiting for your response.

Warbird

Your heading in itself is confrontational. I don't believe you ever had any intention of keeping this civil. The very tone and nature of your heading "WARBIRD vs. QMP" clearly indicates this, so be it, onwards and forward we go.

Thought I'd also bring this over from the other post. Lots of duplication. You also answered while I doing this, but I decided to finish this off. I answer every post with my name and if you ever cared to look at my profile and send me an email you would see my mail is my full name. That's not that tough, I have never hidden behind an alias and make no effort to hide my identity. I have met you face to face a number of times, and if you asked, Wade would have been more than happy to put you in touch with me directly.

I already covered this, but I will say your website supports my claim and is very misleading. I suggest you clarify that you ship a T74 with the tuner kit and you can order a T76. Why do you advertise up to T76 and nowhere is there any mention of a T74 standard, you standard kit clearly states a T63

http://www.ls1motorsports.com/Single_Turbo.asp

We tried it you way to the letter, problem didn't go away. Scavenge pump was the only fix that worked and still run great.

You just love taking shots, my motor has been checked over and it is certainly put together right, you also told Mightymouse his heads were probably wrong. I'll make you a very serious deal, I'll ship my car to any neutral sponsoring shop you choose in North America and we'll let them tear it down we can both be there to watch. if they find any fault in the motor or the way it was put together, you get my formal apology and the praises of your kit plus the satisfaction you made no mistakes and I absob the costs, If they discover the motor is in perfect condition, up to spec and put together correctly outside of normal operational wear and tear you refund all my money for the turbo kit and tear down. I also keep the kit and you let everyone know there was nothing wrong with the motor, and stop blaming ARE. Can't get anymore serious than that.

I had MSD wires and they burned through from the manifold. Are you sure I'm the only person? I have only stated this once on another board, it wasn't one of the bigger issues I had to deal with. I guess you are trying to isolate me from the others, that's fine I have thick skin, we'll see what happens when more of these kits get installed.

I haven't mentioned that one for a while certainly not in any of the recent posts in the last couple of months. That was certainly a heat issue from the manifold that melted the pin but once again this worked out to an interesting conclusion. The knuckle went right after the initial install and was removed from the car after we discovered that it was hitting, BTW when cold it didn't hit and only showed up after the car warmed up. The manifold when installed hit the steering shaft and ARE did take it out to see if it could be clearance it was not taken apart, when I couldn't they had to look elsewhere and had to reclearance the manifold. Perhaps I can give you the benifit of the doubt here. It's on record now and I hope this never happens to anyone again.

Rob, you have known whether you choose to admit it or not that my motor is a big 414 CID stroker, you were told when we ordered the kit and on numerous occasions afterwards. That is why we went with the elusive T76 because you told us that the T63 was not enough. I don't think I am anywhere close to being maxxed out on the motor, just maxxed out on the pluming. BTW why has not a single production car with the new and improved turbo come even close to your old ineffiecient clunker that you keep talking about? They have certainly been around long enough.

Sounds good

Lets stick with the kit.

Paul

Rob Raymer

I didn't say your engine had a problem. But possibly it does. Or your radiator was bad, or your water pump, or your thermostat, or whatever. But what I am saying is, why is it that it has to be the turbo kit causing your car to run hot, and nothing else??? You keep missing the point and reading what you want to!

My engine overheated like mad when I got it back from ARE. They put my headgaskets on backwards! Nick kept telling me then it had to be my turbo kit, so we searched and searched for a problem for weeks! As it turned out, the problem WAS the engine assembly. How 'bout that? So please, don't act like it's impossible. Mistakes happen.

And you are still not making your case any better about the turbo size. WE DON'T SELL A T-76! WE NEVER HAVE! What do you not get about that??? Wade told me he wanted the "same turbo as I had on my car". That's on his invoice. So again I ask you, why are you blaming me??? You didn't buy the kit from me, you bought it from ARE! They are responsible to see to it that you get what you ordered. Are they not?? If they ordered a T-76, why would they have went ahead and installed the T-74 we sent?? And if you ordered a Ball Bearing T-76, that would be about $1000 more than the non-ball bearing T-74 we sell. So which did you pay for??

Lastly, I don't need to clarify that we ship a T-74 with our tuner kit, as you suggested above. Because we don't. We ship whatever turbo someone wants with their Tuner Kit. As advertised, it will accept up to a T-76 as a direct fit. Some people supply the turbo themselves. The Turbonetics T-76 is a very popular turbo, many people use it (which is why we stated that size range), but we don't sell them.

So again, you are reading what you want to read, and hearing only what you want to hear. I've answered all of your questions.

Warbird

Nick didn't build my motor Wade did, that's for starters. I'm not missing any point and I made that point clear, I had the engine chacked over top to bottom and I posted before that the rad helped, so what am I missing? I think my challenge to you made it clear I didn't miss the point I am very prepared to put my money where my mouth is because I know the engine is put together correctly.

I am not trying to make any case about the turbo, I have accepted what I got, I feel I was mislead by QMP but I chose not to pursue it. I have said I believe your web page is misleading and if others read it differently, fine by me.

You are dancing around my points that I laid them out and you are only answering only what you choose to answer.

Read my posts carefully and you will see you have not responded to one of my points and again I ask you to try to stick to the discussion at hand.

I really don't care about your motor, I care about mine and I am indirectly a dissatisfied customer of QMP.

Rob Raymer

On the contrary, I have answered every one of your questions, clearly and precisely. Yet, you have not answered ONE of mine! And you apparently don't even comprehend anything I've said! If you did, you wouldn't still be contending that your engine is built correctly. I NEVER SAID IT WAS YOUR ENGINE. Please start actually reading my posts. I said it COULD be your engine, or ayour waterpump, or a number of other things. Why's that so hard to believe??

You got exactly what ARE ordered. Period. If you didn't get what YOU ordered, take it up with them. Not on a public forum.

FWIW, Nick didn't build my motor either. And I won't say who did. But they still work there. How can you be so sure it's not something other than our turbo kit causing your engine to run hot?? I'd really like to know. After all, you can't name me one other person who has an overheating issue besides you!! (prime example of you not answering my questions....you still haven't named anyone else with your same problems)

In fact, the more I think about it, you really do need to take this whole thing up with ARE. Then they can take it up with me. That's the way it should have been from the start. Otherwise, it's all just hearsay. I dealt with ARE on your kit, and so did you. Let's keep it that way.

Warbird

So now we back away from the issue at hand and you want to go back to ARE to deal with it. It is much easier to wash your hands of it this way as to my best knowledge, ARE does not air it's business with vendors publicly.

Rob answer me one question before I end this.

How many kits have you actually delivered that are currently running on cars today?

I answered the results of switching to a header

I answered the cooling remedies

I answered the engine build question

I told you who I was and how to get a hold of me

I dealt with the steering knuck

I told you about your advertising

etc etc

You on the other hand have only adressed the superficial points and have not even commented on any of my responses to your quoted remarks. You have also offered no advice other than the fact I should check my engine, I also offered to have a thrid party do it but you chose to ignore that as well. It seems we are done with this thread.

You sir are skirting the issue and this speaks volumes about your business practices. I hope you are successful in the future with your business and I hope you have many satisfied customers.

Best success to you Rob

Paul Morris

Rob Raymer

I haven't backed away from anything. It's just that you were apparently told one thing by ARE and we were told another. So as I said, by leaving them out of this conversation, it's a hearsay argument to which there are no answers.

More than 20, but I believe less than 30 as of now. Though we have about 10 more kits in stock waiting for turbos from PTE.

No. You STATED your skewed results of switching to header, and left out the fact that you also repaired a crossover leak at the same time. Which you posted over on the other board yourself. You still haven't explained to me how a header can make the boost hold steady over a manifold. My boost held steady at 15lb with a stock '98 manifold.

No. Again, you STATED what you changed. The "need" (as you say) for a larger radiator is more than likely due to the larger engine size and lesser cooling properties of the iron block. Not because of a cooling issue with our kit. Nobody else has this problem, do they?? I'm still waiting for an actual answer to that question of which I have now asked AT LEAST 3 times. Keep dancing.


No. You told me YOUR THOUGHTS on the engine. You've proven nothing. Though I'll say it for the third time....I never said anything was wrong with your engine. Nor am I saying there is.

You know who I am, and how to get a hold me. Why is it my responsibility to track you down? You are not a customer of mine. You are a customer of ARE. Call them with your problems.

And you are the only person who ever has. Hmmm...1 out of 25-30 kits. MUST be a production issue since the kits are all EXACTLY the same. Makes a lot of sense.


So what? You still don't understand my answer, do you? It's really not that difficult. BTW, if you know so much, why are you paying someone else to install your kit for you? Just curious.

Wrong again. Re-read Pal.

Are you actually reading anything??? I didn't tell you to "check your engine", but you keep coming back to that. Have a "third party check it for you" if you like. What do I care? I did ignore it, because it was stupid. As is nearly everything you call a "Fact".


Whatever. It's pointless trying to reason with you. I hope this is done now.

Black LS1 T/A

I will let PSJ determine if this thread should be locked. So far it started off borderline; I find it a little difficult to understand why you, Rob, chose to come to this board with such a provocative title as you have used. I know it's hard to stay objective when you are on the defensive. Answer posts left open, but don't contribute to instigation, please. When you lose your cool, you lose credibility. You MAY have a right to be outraged, but as a vendor, when you don't stay above the tactics others may employ, it diminishes you.

Warbird, FWIW, my own experience with my 422 shows it IS true that an Iron Block retains SIGNIFICANTLY more heat. I'm having cooling issues with mine, and I have the SLP radiator AND the 16" 2350 CFM SPAL fan (better than before, but still too hot for turning on my AC... and hotter than I'd like for peak performance).

It DOES sound odd that the one person who tampered with the steering knuckle is the only one reporting a problem with it.

On the other hand, Rob, there are enough issues being reported by other folk (like the oiling) that muddies the waters about the kit.

There is only one way for you guys to resolve your unique situation (a 3rd party vendor involved). You need to conference call between QMP, ARE and Warbird so that everyone must stay honest and have to think thru their claims/accusations.

The comments about what this one said or that one said will get nowhere. This thread so far serves no purpose but for two people to duke it out over who can scream the loudest. Look at all the repeated comments... and then this craziness gets brought to this board.

Rob, I want you to have a chance to answer these questions/comments since they are being aired here. But, don't chuck the civility you display on the other board when you come here to post, please.

Thanks.

SS00Blue

LOL! What did I do?

I'm just a satisfied customer that got that for which he paid. I also know what I'm doing with a wrench. No inuendo intended. I just know what I'm doing.

I'll give Rob props for not dropping the gloves, though. I've known this guy for 1-1/2 years and he's taken a bunch of abuse from this community, with dignity. It's only a surprise that it took this long to get irritated. Black LS1 T/A has good points, but it's just degenerated so far...

FWIW, I truly hope Warbird gets his car running satisfactorily. Same for MM and everyone else that buys and installs this kit. Remember, there are an AWFUL LOT of folks that have this kit who aren't posting. Why? Because they, like I, had no significant issues. I just take abuse because I seem to be representing, by far, the overwhelming majority of customers who are satisfied with this kit.

It's the one or two dissenters that get the most airtime.

Just an observation... the cars with the most trouble are the ones with the most mods going together at the same time. That is most certainly a recipe for headaches. I've put together some very fast cars by the standards of the time at which they were assembled, and the worst problems I've ever had, were when too many new bolts got installed at the same time.

Thanks for the bandwidth!

SC-

Oh, and for the record, I have never received any cash or prizes from Rob, ever. I know I shouldn't dignify an implication like this with an answer, but it was just juvenile and absurd, so I couldn't let it go by.