Thinking of Changing my setup
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Thinking of Changing my setup Lookin for some input.
So i built my 416 to be a street car, which it serves that purpose extremly well. Car is quick and is a torque FREAK! haha
any way in my ever expanding quest for more power i had planned to go nitrous, but honestly nitrous has never really been my thing haha. I know my luck ill need the bottle and my bottle pressure will be low, or the remote opener wont work, or something stupid.
My current calculations put my SCR @ about 11.7:1 (flat top pistons with milled L92 heads). Obviously out of the "ideal" range for a blower or turbo setup. However if i were to get a set of L92's unmilled, maybe even have the head shop rework the combustion chamber just a touch to get me say 72cc combustion chambers, and run a slightly thicker gasket i should be able to get down to 10.6-10.8:1. so the question is with an F1C would 10 lbs on 91 octane (shitty cali gas) still be in the realm of safety? what if i can only manage getting it down to 11:1 so on.
does this all make sense? haha btw current cam is a 236/246 on a 114+2
So i built my 416 to be a street car, which it serves that purpose extremly well. Car is quick and is a torque FREAK! haha
any way in my ever expanding quest for more power i had planned to go nitrous, but honestly nitrous has never really been my thing haha. I know my luck ill need the bottle and my bottle pressure will be low, or the remote opener wont work, or something stupid.
My current calculations put my SCR @ about 11.7:1 (flat top pistons with milled L92 heads). Obviously out of the "ideal" range for a blower or turbo setup. However if i were to get a set of L92's unmilled, maybe even have the head shop rework the combustion chamber just a touch to get me say 72cc combustion chambers, and run a slightly thicker gasket i should be able to get down to 10.6-10.8:1. so the question is with an F1C would 10 lbs on 91 octane (shitty cali gas) still be in the realm of safety? what if i can only manage getting it down to 11:1 so on.
does this all make sense? haha btw current cam is a 236/246 on a 114+2
I'm no expert on this but I am pretty sure that CR is too high to put more than a fewpsi to that motor on pump gas. 10psi you'd need below 10:1 still. If you can't rework the motor, you would probably get more gains on N20 than FI.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
well even say 8 psi should be a substantial gain over my NA numbers from what i figgure. Now my question is if compression needs to be that low for 10psi how do stock vette and gto guys manage those types of numbers @ 10.9:1?? are they only doing that with meth?
like i said im no expert in FI on big pushrod v8's but im just trying to put some logic to my illogical thought that i need more power
edit: btw this would be a fully intercooled setup
FormerVendor
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,540
Likes: 0
From: Hell AFB
It depends on how the combo was set up. For a NA setup the rings are gapped a tad tighter then a FI setup, you can run into issues here with boost.
The biggest thing is making sure your intercooler is up to par and pray for good gas everytime you fill up.
The biggest thing is making sure your intercooler is up to par and pray for good gas everytime you fill up.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
N/A is great, but FI is just so much sweeter. Well an F1 @ 8 lbs on a forged 416 should push some solid numbers i assume
still might be worth it.I would rework the motor but its brand new hahaha
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
yea the gas issue concerns me. My initial thoughts were to just keep 5 gals of torco at all times and keep a pint with me at all times to add no matter where i fill up. just not sure if thats enough insurance
Trending Topics
10:1 or 10:7 static compression wouldent be to bad, But its the dynamic compression that will tell the tell. Of course the lower the better but that needs a good look also. But a F1 at 7-8 psi should be great for a street set up on that 416. that big motor really dosent need that much boost on a semi high compression. Plus with a big intercooler 7-8 psi that F1 unit wont even break a sweat. Thus intake temps should stay low. With good reasearch I would say on 7-8 psi that motor would be well into the 600 hp range and throttle response will be wicked. Oh and like epp said the rings are closer so high boost will cause some blow by issues.
LS1 Tech Stories
The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time
6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them
Pouria Savadkouei
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Pouria Savadkouei
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP
Verdad Gallardo
Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes
Verdad Gallardo
Awesome K5 Blazer Restomod Comes With C7 Corvette Power
Verdad Gallardo
10 Camaros You Should Never Buy
10 LS Engine Myths That Refuse to Die
Verdad Gallardo FormerVendor
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,540
Likes: 0
From: Hell AFB
10:1 or 10:7 static compression wouldent be to bad, But its the dynamic compression that will tell the tell. Of course the lower the better but that needs a good look also. But a F1 at 7-8 psi should be great for a street set up on that 416. that big motor really dosent need that much boost on a semi high compression. Plus with a big intercooler 7-8 psi that F1 unit wont even break a sweat. Thus intake temps should stay low. With good reasearch I would say on 7-8 psi that motor would be well into the 600 hp range and throttle response will be wicked. Oh and like epp said the rings are closer so high boost will cause some blow by issues.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Not blow-by , but if the heat is enough and they are set tight, there may be issues with the rings butting. Honestly a d1sc would do for this setup, a f1 will have a boggy middle range if only going for 10psi. A d1sc pullied up will have good midrange for a killer combo.
So 91 octane + a can of torco to get me in the neighborhood of 93-94, and 8-10# intercooled i should be safe?? IF i can get my SCR down to 10.8 or so?? (needing a solid tune of course)
Edit: and the cam with that fatty LSA should be good for a blower too right? my DCR will be higher i know, but it should prevent alot of the blow through right?
FormerVendor
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,540
Likes: 0
From: Hell AFB
Well depending on the cam it might make more power lol, big cams with overlap tend to work decent or even really well with centrif blowers.
I would chat with the engine builder and check to see if it can be ran with 10lbs or so, if not then see what he has to do to make it do so.
A d1sc will work fine for the engine since your not going for huge hp and maximum psi. You will have good midrange from the higher compression (pending cam , narrower lsa?) and the blower will be more responsive then a f1a just putting along to make 10psi. Power under the curve is a bit more fun to drive then a up-top power band (think supra lol)
I would chat with the engine builder and check to see if it can be ran with 10lbs or so, if not then see what he has to do to make it do so.
A d1sc will work fine for the engine since your not going for huge hp and maximum psi. You will have good midrange from the higher compression (pending cam , narrower lsa?) and the blower will be more responsive then a f1a just putting along to make 10psi. Power under the curve is a bit more fun to drive then a up-top power band (think supra lol)
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Well depending on the cam it might make more power lol, big cams with overlap tend to work decent or even really well with centrif blowers.
I would chat with the engine builder and check to see if it can be ran with 10lbs or so, if not then see what he has to do to make it do so.
A d1sc will work fine for the engine since your not going for huge hp and maximum psi. You will have good midrange from the higher compression (pending cam , narrower lsa?) and the blower will be more responsive then a f1a just putting along to make 10psi. Power under the curve is a bit more fun to drive then a up-top power band (think supra lol)
I would chat with the engine builder and check to see if it can be ran with 10lbs or so, if not then see what he has to do to make it do so.
A d1sc will work fine for the engine since your not going for huge hp and maximum psi. You will have good midrange from the higher compression (pending cam , narrower lsa?) and the blower will be more responsive then a f1a just putting along to make 10psi. Power under the curve is a bit more fun to drive then a up-top power band (think supra lol)
T66 Q trim single with an rps bigtorque turbo header.
well i plan to talk with the engine builder tomorrow to see what he says, and the shop that helped me build the motor too.
Now i thought we wanted wide LSA setups with blowers to ensure minimum blow through of pressurized intake?? or is that only if the motor is of the right compression? haha
i agree that this engine will be better suited w/ a D1 SC blower...
F1C is overkill...
for the boost levels youre talking about you wont even be using the D1 blower to its full potential...keep in mind that at the same boost pressure, the F1 blower will move substantially more volume than the D1...
even at 11:1 CR youre going to have a hard time tuning this vehicle....its just too much compression for boost and 91 octane...you will get in trouble very quickly even with methanol..
you need to decide what your goals are with the vehicle...be brutally honest with yourself...it will help you determine what compression ratio to go with, head/cam/valvetrain selection, blower size, boost level, etc.
the approach to building an FI engine is different than an NA engine..if your serious, id consider new pistons/rings at the least...no point in band-aiding your setup to try and make it work...do it right from the beginning so you wont be dissappointed in the end.
F1C is overkill...
for the boost levels youre talking about you wont even be using the D1 blower to its full potential...keep in mind that at the same boost pressure, the F1 blower will move substantially more volume than the D1...
even at 11:1 CR youre going to have a hard time tuning this vehicle....its just too much compression for boost and 91 octane...you will get in trouble very quickly even with methanol..
you need to decide what your goals are with the vehicle...be brutally honest with yourself...it will help you determine what compression ratio to go with, head/cam/valvetrain selection, blower size, boost level, etc.
the approach to building an FI engine is different than an NA engine..if your serious, id consider new pistons/rings at the least...no point in band-aiding your setup to try and make it work...do it right from the beginning so you wont be dissappointed in the end.
FormerVendor
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,540
Likes: 0
From: Hell AFB
funny you mention supra haha thats what i had before my goat!
T66 Q trim single with an rps bigtorque turbo header.
well i plan to talk with the engine builder tomorrow to see what he says, and the shop that helped me build the motor too.
Now i thought we wanted wide LSA setups with blowers to ensure minimum blow through of pressurized intake?? or is that only if the motor is of the right compression? haha
T66 Q trim single with an rps bigtorque turbo header.
well i plan to talk with the engine builder tomorrow to see what he says, and the shop that helped me build the motor too.
Now i thought we wanted wide LSA setups with blowers to ensure minimum blow through of pressurized intake?? or is that only if the motor is of the right compression? haha
Well the centri blowers like a cam with lower overlap, BUT it has been shown that with a cam with overlap it makes the same more more at less boost. Its still moving the same CFM, but its using it differently. Take a NA cam then toss a centri on it and its game time, to some extent lol. Something in the high 230s and high 240s duration with low-mid 600lift around a 114ish lsa.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Haha, any reason you got rid of it? That 66mm should have made some decent pump gas power and had good street manners.
Well the centri blowers like a cam with lower overlap, BUT it has been shown that with a cam with overlap it makes the same more more at less boost. Its still moving the same CFM, but its using it differently. Take a NA cam then toss a centri on it and its game time, to some extent lol. Something in the high 230s and high 240s duration with low-mid 600lift around a 114ish lsa.
Well the centri blowers like a cam with lower overlap, BUT it has been shown that with a cam with overlap it makes the same more more at less boost. Its still moving the same CFM, but its using it differently. Take a NA cam then toss a centri on it and its game time, to some extent lol. Something in the high 230s and high 240s duration with low-mid 600lift around a 114ish lsa.
I agree if i wasnt in a hurry to just get teh car back on the road i would have probably considered all the possibilities of a lower compression setup for my motor and future blower size. Honestly my issue really comes down to the fact there is no way to take real advantage of a more agressive cam due to the piece of **** L76 intake manifold. If fast would get off their lazy asses and make the manifold they have been talkin about for over a year now i would probably be quite happy with N/A power i could possibly make.
As for doing it over again, i dont think thats an option at this time. and also as for teh issues of 91 @ 10.9 or so why is that a problem now with a built motor vs a stock motor @ 10.9? isnt 10.9 10.9 forged or factory?? some individuals here obviously believe if its over 10.0 it shouldnt be FI. obviously lower compression + boost is better, but my question came down to how do i increase my power levels beyond 600 rwhp at this time without nitrous. the only answer considering the crappy intake is FI.
As for my supra i just came to a point where i didnt have the time or money to really work on it and drive it like i wanted, and didnt have a garage to store it. at the time i got 39,000 for it cash so i was more than happy
btw the supra on 112 race gas made 774rwhp and 646 rwtq
at low boost if you could get down to 10.5.1 and use meth and a great tune i think you would be good then if you tune it with the "race" fuel that you want to keep wioth you then i think your car would be a BEAST on the steet hell like you were saying stock vett do it al the time? but im still kind new to all this **** also, jake at epp is a great guy will will not lead you the wrong way
