Hmm passenger bung seemed plenty far back. I wonder if have bungs in my ceramic hooker ypipe will check today. I have not even unpacked it yet. I have no cats currently.

Anyway today should be start up day even if its not actually drive the car around day.And we are in the midst of freakish warm weather hit close to 70 degrees yesterday very very rare for end of october but not complaining!

Buddy is coming over this morning .I am going to be working on my base tune momentarily.
The manual is not very clear on trimming the front bumper cover. Hopefully can figure it out . Guess it will become clear when look at it more closely. That plastic piece that supports bumper cover was pretty intimidating to cut but used grinder with cutting wheel and it just zipped it. They did say three inches but it looked like angle cut and stuff but really was just a straight cut all the way around.

Work on the main stuff first so car can at least start and go around the block. Driveshaft, bleed brakes, set the bmr bolts so the wheels are at least straight ahead until get to alignment shop. Put in antifreeze. Minor stuff like trimming those splash shields under the nose can wait a bit. Unless its maybe pouring rain or something but looks like nice day.

Crossing my fingers and knocking on wood that my new 408 runs good and that the aps system works good also. I am goign to just order the new ducts , the sway bar fix sounds simple we will just do it ourselves. I may put in a high flo waterpump and possibly different rad if have any bad overheating issues next summer. I might possibly send my turbos for the upgraded ones depending on how these are.

I will also argue with anyone about aps quality of their kit. They may have some issues but many many parts of the kit are superb quality..the coolant overflow bottle and battery tray, the windshield water reservoir, the tig welded intake and intercooler pipes are great quality,the intercooler fits well with the modding and is a great intercooler.The downpipes are tig welded works of art. Tial gates are great as well. The stockiish looking
exhaust manifolds are great too heavy but should hold up good. Aps should offer some upgrade options..like ceramic coated exhaust manifolds and turbo hot side.

Those heat shields might work but they are dangerous..buddy cut himself lots on them. I was super careful. but changing spark plugs can become a dangerous adventure.I may send mine off and ceramic them at some point still it does seem good idea to still use the shields especially necessary I think near the starter.


The blow offs look cheap and will be getting some nice turbosmart I think. See how they sound vented to atmosphere maybe not too bad. I still may replace some clamps with t bolt as well.

I have given some tips also on where some problems might happen on the aps kits. One is you could forget to take out the plugs on the oil returns and put the fitting and gasket overtop the plugged hole .This would cause massive smoke out the turbo I would guess. I double checked to make sure my shipping plugs were indeed out of both turbos.

Also it was mentioned that running too little oil could cause smoking out the back. That might be true and too much oil in crankcase ,overfilling can often make turbos blow oil until problem is corrected. Also not running the pcv like they said exactly or accidentally running the one way fitting backwards. I am not even sure can run my billet breather that have from before. Going to run the setup exactly as they said to.
Hugger Z I think mentioned he had to put a pcv back in there to make his idle right?
I will see how mine works..some other people like Keliente say she is running things exactly as APS said and she has no problems with idle.

On the overheating thing there is a way to make a mistake on installation that would cause big overheating. They ship the intercooler with cardboard on both sides. It would be fairly easy if person was trying to protect the condenser or intercooler to leave that shipping cardboad on and this of coures would cause huge airflow restriction.

Now not saying this is happening just that it could happen just like you could easily leave the plugs in the oil returns. You can't leave the other plugs in as the fittings won't go.

Just thought would give those tips and feel free to ask any questions about my install as its of course fresh in my mind. I want to thank my good buddy Doug who is a master mechanic and can think his way thru a problem and constantly amazed me on this build.
He did the seemingly impossible many times.

The build is a tough one, very long and requires a good amount of thinking. I could see how some shops would do a not very good job of it and also some of the steps are a bit hard for the average joe.

My install of course was much more complicated since also did the 408 engine swap at the same time. Glad didn't also put in a 4l80e right now the turbo and engine install was plenty for this time around.

Well more updates later today for sure. Wish me luck boys and girls!

 

Well fired it up...started up right away and idled not too bad. Flashed in base tune.
Then we were checking water it was taking way more than spec. We then checked oil also and it was milky white!

Yep coolant in the oil..no white smoke out the back though. So appears not to be head gasket blown problem.

I put in ls7 head gaskets but talked to people that ran them on 6.0 engines with the afr 225 heads???? So don't think it was that?
Will try to call afr shortly.

I also just saw the post from EP about how they had a dud turbo and it put coolant in the oil. NICE! so its likely either a dud turbo or turbos or its something with the ls7 gasket no idea what else it could be..cracked block?

Not in a good mood at all. Will try to do a little detective work..like maybe bypass the turbo coolant lines to see if that is the problem and if it isn't then
seriously thinking selling everything in my list might keep the wifes 96z not even sure on that and get a c6 or something and leave it stock.

I was so excited today for first drive and when it started up and sounded ok on the base tune then was of course very happy. We only ran it for like 5 minutes so far. If new it was the turbo then could maybe just run them without water as they do offer them in either form for sale but not sure why then the water option is so important..

Well its amazing how your happest potential day can turn into your worst nightmare in 5 freaking minutes. Was all stressed out over this build ,my engine builder died in the middle of the build and now these problems.

Well very possible won't be on the forums much longer,won't own an f body anymore guess just getting sick of the whole modding thing.

The aps kit seemed nice and not sure if is a dud aps turbo or turbos it could be other things thats part of the problems. Of course the aps system is a nightmare to get the turbos off again to check/service them. Would appreciate if anyone has any tips but sounds like you have pull off all the piping and then drop the kmember again to get them out. Course if the engine is problem its even worse..

Right now I feel about like this..

 

I can understand your pain man. I have been trying to get my 406 right for a long time now. First time I installed the secondary rings upside down. Second time there wasn't enough cam play which ate the wear bushing up which trashed the bottom end in 30 miles. Now it's together and running but I can't get the intake to seal. After two intakes and a half a dozen of gaskets I am going to pull the engine again. I think the block was decked wrong. If it is I am going to have to get a new block, have it machined and put together.

I have put thousands of dollars into this engine and it's still not right.

I am not meaning to high jack your thread but wanting to let you know I know how it feels to put all your time/money into something and it go to ****. I have been threatening to sell the engine but haven't yet.

Best of luck to you. Let us now how it turns out.

 

Well thanks and yeah very frustrated .Pretty sure the ls7 head gaskets are ok fact engine builder planned my pistons based on ls7 head gaskets.could be cracked block. Doubtful its heads. Could be dud turbo EP just posted about same thing . The turbos don't need the water cooling so can maybe check that out. Have to figure out if its engine or what.

Dont be suprised if you dont see me post much anymore. I just trashed up a nice low mileage ws6 and if do sell it likely get a c6 auto and leave it the heck alone..talking gm air filter..every thing stock.
I have no luck with mods..no luck at all..

 

Ok was depressed big time but buddy came over after supper and worked on the car.
I was thinking so what was there to do anymore just burn it or sink it or sell it and buy a c6 or something.
But he said lets block the turbos with plugs the coolant lines and try things and we did and now no milkly colored oil . We changed oil of course too.
So seems have a bad turbo now have to figure out which side. I am planning on running them think with just no water many people run their mits 20gs with no water since you can buy them with or without water cooled housings.

So very glad it looks like my new engine is ok..

 

Not sure on plans today hoping to take it for actual drive. Minor stuff to finish up. Not going to rehook up coolant lines on the turbos for a few days. No big worries from not hooking them up.Then try to figure out if it indeed a leaking turbo or not.

 

cool man that **** could have sucked bad
more junk turbos??

 

Awww dam. Sorry to hear you may have a bad turbo. The water and oil lines were connected to the correct places, right? That could mess it up if you attached the lines to the wrong port. I know you probably triple checked that stuff, but wanted to ask. Dang, I must have gotten lucky with my kit......

And on the PCV, yes I had to add one back in to the APS set-up. Their 1-way valve did not meter the air and was causing a lean idle condition. My tuner added the PCV and problem solved.

 

Can't see how you can connect the water and oil lines wrong.they are totally different sizes and fittings. As for the pcv what was the symptoms..My car does idle but then seems to just stall out.Did yours do same thing?

I am about an inch from selling my 99 ta . Won't take much more bs to make me do it. Put it in my c6 fund or c7 and drive my daily drivers till then. You spend money on all these parts buying hopefully top quality and then you get disappointed.

I am hoping right now that the 408 is ok. Thankfully it was only run like 5 minutes with all that coolant in the oil. There was no oil in the coolant and no coolant out the exhaust pipes. The oil looks fine today will likley give it another change anyway.
I am going to think drive the car tommorrow and see how I like it. I better like it! If I am not thrilled with it then my problems with it will likely be the next owners problems.

Hopefully your system keeps working for you. Those turbos are not that fun to take out or put back. Things are so tight in there.

 

Sorry to hear about the bad luck MY99TAWS6 I have been reading all these bad stories about the turbos being bad and it has be worrying enough to me that I am sending my two off to forced inductions to get looked at and fixed if anything is wrong before I even put them on. I have wondered if putting my Incon kit on wouldn't be a better option then this but we will see.

This is just a thought but if the turbos are bad and causing the oil and water to mix then why not leave the oil lines hooked up to the turbos of course and just undo the coolant lines and don't cap them. Turn the engine over and either start or don't start it and watch if oil starts running out of the now open water ports on the turbos. That will tell you real quick if it is the turbos or even which one it is that is letting water and oil mix. If neither let oil out then perhaps it is something else. Just a thought to try and help narrow it all down I know what it is like tracking down a problem that seams so hopeless. While my turbos are at forced inductions I may have them upgraded or see if there is something better to use.

Everything else on the kit seams great and acceptable as for problems I mean what kit built for these cars doesn't have some kind of fitment issues. The sucky part is that they may have used some messed up turbos. Don't know but when I get time and some spare cash over winter I am sending them off to get looked at while I have the manifolds, down pipes, and housings coated.

 

That is good idea Warpnova. It would sure save a lot of headaches for sure. I decided to take my car for a spin with buddy that helped me put it together tonite. I am not parking it its getting driven for a couple of days. We did another oil change the third and the oil on the second was a bit milkly colored but not like soup like the first one.
There is no water going into the oil now. It has to be a turbo it can't be the engine.

The test drive was fairly boring. I have redline set to 5000. I have my afr target at 11 to 1 and timing at 12 max. And my idle tune needs work bad. But car ran not bad.
I have a lot of noises happening from my exhaust not quite together..intermediate pipe is not tight..the new hooker ceramic ypipe looks good and fit good. I am getting thing some clunk from my new spohn bodymounted torque arm and my tex clutch has floater rattle and my shifter rattles away as well.

But minor annoyances. I did put it into boost a little bit tonite. Heard them spool no boost guage and doubt hit more than 2 or 3 pounds wasn't going wide open. The car moved out not bad though ,it should it is a 408 with twin turbos it better move out. I think my bottom end might be a bit soggy with my afr 225s ,my cam is pretty mellow 215/230 about 580 or so lift with my 1.8 rockers and 121 lsa. So cam has zero lope and not sure but would think powerband would be higher up with that sort of cam. The afr 225 are more top end and less bottom so just when things started to get fun around 5000 my rev limiter shut down the fun but have to be mellow only have 60 pound injectors no pump and big lines yet and reg.

It was nice to at least drive my 408 tt. And did have some fun. The blow offs don't think are that loud still and have them vented to atmosphere. Would definitely be putting some loud ones on there. Have to see how my bottom end gets as the engine gets some miles and things start sealing..And took out timing pretty much everywhere should for sure put some back down low and running fat down low as well. Really wonder you can't run say 12.8 to 2500 or so under where the turbos spool and then go to 11 to 1 from there. And keep timing higher more normal under the spool up rpm..
But see most guys just run like 11 to 1 up to torque peak and 11.5 the rest of the way..
So maybe my tuning theory sucks.!

It would be nice if can figure out which turbo is the dud hopefully not both.
I will not test by hooking the coolant lines to the engine again. Not pumping antifreeze into my new motor again..not going to happen. Will figure out which turbo or send both off for upgrade or inspection minimum.
Oh from trying brief launch you really need a two step or antilag with an m6 car. I have lingenfelter one I might try on the car next spring. Have to see . Might be dumping the 99 if it don't impress me enough and get a c6.
If keep the 99 have plans to go 4l80e and nice stall.

Well at least we made it home tonite..oh am getting some stalling happening. I bumped idle to 900 and thats about it for idle tuning. Working on the iac counts next.
And think should bump some timing for sure at idle. Hoping can get my 60s to idle. Boost referenced reg is supposed to be a good thing.

The kit has a lot of high quailty stuff in it. And overall its very well designed but think they do have some issues at turbo quality control..now the tig welding guy that did my downpipes and other stuff in the kit..they should give him a big raise and fire the turbo inspector..

 

I wonder if there is a way to test the turbo for leaks without running anitfreeze or oil through it.

Can you pressurize the coolant lines and see if the pressure goes down after a while? Same for the oil lines?

I am thinking you should be able to do this with an air compressor set to very low pressure and cap one of the coolant fittings. The other fitting would be used to connect to the air compressor.

I will be installing my APS kit this winter. I am hoping there is a way to test this turbos before putting them in. I will be installing them myself pretty much the same way you did.

Why did you use the wheel dollies when you slid the motor out from underneath. I was planning the take the whole powertrain out from underneath as well, but I was thinking it would be easier to remove the entire a-arm before doing that. Does the a-arm bottom out on the k-frame when you put the dollies on it, so it makes it a lot more stable moving the engine?

 

I USED DOLLIES AS WENT OUT SIDEWAY RATHER THAN HAVE TO JACK CAR REALLY HIGH WITH JACK STANDS MAYBE ON 2 BY 4 BASES AND TAKE IT OUT THE FRONT. IT WAS EASIER AND I THOUGHT MORE STABLE TO DO IT OUT THE SIDE AND IT WAS NO PROBLEM REALLY WITH CHERRY PICKER.SOME LOW PROFILE MICHELIN JACKS ,WOOD DOLLY AND BUNCH OF SAFETY JACKS.

AND SO MUCH EASIER TO INSTALL TURBOS AND DO NEW MOTOR.OF COURSE NOW HAVE TO DROP THE KMEMBER ANYWAY AND PULL AT LEAST ONE TURBO BUT LIKELY BOTH..SEND THEM BOTH AWAY TO BE CHECKED AND MAYBE UPGRADED.

 

hahaha! Wonderful, isn't it?! I only laugh because I've felt the same way over the past few months, except I wanted a C5. If you keep the car and it is the turbos, I'd send them to that GTO guy in Texas for the 65 lb/hr wheels and some porting. I wish you luck on your quest to solving your oil/water problem!

 

Greg are one negative dude! I am old hot rodder we are used to working thru problems and issues.
I have a dud turbo.It must have some kind of crack inside that lets coolant go into the oil part but not apparently the other way. No oil in my coolant. Since unhooking the water lines I have zero coolant in the engine and since only ran engine for like 5 minutes not even under load before we caught the problem figure engine is ok. Changed oil like 4 times already and oil looks fine now.Only put maybe 50 miles on the car so far.

The aps kit is awesome in so many ways.The tig weliding on the downpipes and intake pipes and intercooler pipes..the awesome billet overflo bottle and windshield washer reservoir.The way the kit fit the killer intercooler. The great manual. Well pretty great manual. And have drove the car just a bit..was running on 7 plugs last night ..OOPS..! Found number 4 off the plug today.! Now the car is much much faster and that 408 is killer off boost and spools up these little snails like right now. and if they only give me 9s at 10 or 12 psi well I can live with 9s'!

Yeah can nitpick..sure the intake tubes are not the best if you want to go past 12psi which would be freaking stupid nuts crazy hp on a street car anyway but for racing yeah for sure you want to get your higher boost especially on smaller engines like a 346.

So will order or get new intake pipes for sure. Even if have to pay for them .The kit was pretty darn good deal.I don't understand a lot of your complaints.Its got lots of stainless parts..lines, bolts, washers..think you were complaining about rust?? On what the turbo exhaust housings..well get them ceramic coated..on the manifolds..same deal if it bugs you.Heck gm don't even paint the rear ends for the big bucks my car cost new or their a arm braces and stuff.
When take my turbos off and realize its a bit of pain dropping the kmember but not really hard for me since have cherry picker .. then will ceramic coat my exhaust manifolds.
Maybe even have my turbo hot sides done. You can't really see the stuff anyway once our engines are packed in the car.

But anyway no idea why you took yours off. If they are both gone then I guess you have to send them away. And maybe mine will go and think will send them to become 65 pounders like Kwikkar is doing. Why not have another 300 hp ..Not like I have any traction at all with current 7.5 psi on a 408! LOL

So yours were blowing oil bad or were not boosting or were rubbing the housings..?
If the latter can see a problem ,if the former might have been other reasons..problem with crankcase ventilation for one. Or did you maybe forget to take out the little tiny plugs on the oil return housings..easy mistake to make..I almost did that and that would for sure make the turbos smoke like cheech and chong!
So far no smoke from my turbos. The coolant thing is big bummer and could have taken out my engine if didn't notice it so fast and still going to be worried now a bit ..well maybe a lot I am as parnanoid as the next guy.

Anyway the sway bar issue is nothing..a few bucks in metal,simple spacer and endlink mod that any hot rodder worth the name can do and my hotchkis big fat sway bar will be on there.
No overheating yet car is running around 180 and don't even have the full nose on yet.
I will buy bigger volume pump or lt1 rad or ron davis is have problems. Bet a few guys forgot to take off the packing cardboard on the inside of the intercooler and that will for sure make an impact on their cooling.

And yeah the blow offs are a bit cheap looking and don't sound that great even vented directly. Some turbosmarts will take care of that real quick

So guess sometimes you have to suck it up. Aps needs better quality control on their turbos obviously. They have great quality control on the rest of the kit at least my kit.

Right now I have my supercar. Even at low boost with my mods it is no slouch.
And how many guys with dud turbos have actually blown out their stock piston rings and just think its a turbo. Dud turbos normally don't blow oil. Excessive shaft play can make the blades hit the housings and destroy the wheels and thats not good for engines either.
So again if they are doing that they need to tighen up their quality control But the funny thing is..have not seen or had people answer my posts on the gto or c5 forums that use exactly the same turbos . So its a bit weird that we have so many f body failures..20g should be rock solid reliable. But will pay money to make sure mine are done right when send them off.

And for the record Peter has been in contact with me and has been very understanding and professional and yes I know he can sometimes be a politician and dodge our questions .But they did come up with upgraded intake tubes. Sway bar fix is too simple not an issue. Cooling issues were warned about in the manual that you might need to upgrade radiator..

Such is life in the big grown up world of hotrodding. I wish you luck on your kit Greg and am genuinely sorry you had problems with yours. I at least have all winter to fix up my turbo or turbos. Car goes away about end of next week . Just enjoying some freakishly warm weather for up here next few days.

And to anyone that said a 408 is too big give your head a shake..off boost a 427 would be even more fun but my nittos are already seriously tested and really need to drive around on et streets.

 

Todays updates.
Plan today is to put my front bumper cover back on and finish trimming my under trays.Should go pretty smooth. Then will hook up my wideband and temp boost gauge and see how things are looking. Still having some idle issues and wondering if it would help to do a pcv mod like hugger z did to his. My car just seems to stall out sometimes at lights and sometimes just sitting there. Starts up fine and seems to be running pretty good so likely just tuning.

I just ordered a new turbosmart Kompact 25mm supersonic blow off part number FG BOVKTSS and am trying to track down another one thats in stock so can get it quick. These should kick big butt over the plastic bosch ones. And are super simple to install. Direct replacement for our bosch ones just clamp on same as those no adapters.As said before I used home depot table leg rubber caps to seal the blow off recirc holes on the intercooler pipes.

Going eboost 2 but not necessarily right away. Decided to get three interceptor gauges by aeroforce ,they are very versatile things. Can hook up nitrous and fuel pressure sensors and even put my wideband into it.Should keep things neat with just three guage pod and the eboost in a vent.

Well time to get cracking on stuff. Too bad have no video camera to take some pics of driving around and stuff.

Not much to see anymore once the bumper goes on,the system is so stealthy.
Have to install my twin turbo emblems and 408 emblems also now..

Here are some pics of them on different car and here is my lisence plate. I hope the car can prove WORTHY!!






I also got some nice 408 emblems..

 

Todays update sent to a few boards and friends..accomplished pretty much all of todays goals.
Very minor stuff to do on the car now. Cruising tommorrow for sure.Maybe a week tops of weather left before sleep but should have the rest of the needed support mods ready to go in spring.

Hoping for dyno and some track numbers..possibly on upgraded snails. see how it goes.

 

Well got a few more toys for baby. Hate putting it away but can't winter drive this monster! No traction control makes it near impossible.But at least get some little stuff now so only the big stuff is left for spring..


Hated the stock blow offs so got two of these.

.


Turbosmart supersonic kompact series 25mm direct bolt on replacement and plenty loud when you run them unrecirced of course.


Ordered this to help build boost its is more necessary on m6 cars and am going auto pretty sure but the two step is still usefull to launch consistently and the antilag feature should work with auto or stick if not can use the nitrous retard feature or the boost retard 3 bar feature.



Also needed a decent boost guage and boost controller so ordered this as well



For guages getting three of these and some extra sensors. While they don't have wideband sensor for them you can hook other widebands like my plx m300 into them .

 

man what do you do for a living?
if you dont mine me asking

 

I am an old guy..turning 51 in feb so considerably older than most guys on here I would think.
I own an 18 suite apartment building which I manage and wife caretakes but we dont' live in it and I take care of my 90 year old Dad. He had quite a few apartments but he sold them off since the partners had died off and the widows were a pain in the butt. We also have a farm we rent out. I am not rich or would be driving a new z1r .
I just like cars and modding them. Its an expensive hobby for sure. Other hobbies are guns, electric trains, metal detecting, photography.And I like to play video games and audio/video too. I guess I am just a big kid!

I have six kids and six grandkids. Married twice.. There Tom now you know everything there is to know about me.