E85 question
02-09-2010, 04:02 PM
#3
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FWIW, I switched over my TrailBlazer SS (LS2) to e85. Only mod besides the e85 tune is a RPS air filter. The oem fuel pump has been adequate, but I did need to upgrade to larger injectors from a 5.3 Flex Fuel truck, and even those hit nearly 100% duty cycle.
02-09-2010, 05:08 PM
#4
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Same here....my stock pump was adequate but I added an additional external in-line for extra piece of mind. I did have to use larger injectors. After tuning, I picked up an additional 58RWHP/55RWTQ just on E85 alone and got cooler IAT's to boot!
02-09-2010, 06:11 PM
#5
Alcohol is very corrosive. An e85 equipped vehicle has substantial differences to the fuel system vs. gas. All seals are different, pump is different and not just because of the volume/pressure differences, octane sensor in tank (what happens if you cant get e85 out on a trip, now your tune is off!), and i believe the tank is even a different part# for the e85 version because of different coating of the metal to prevent corrosion from the alcohol.
Why would you want to goto e85 right now anyway? It actually costs more $$$ to go the same amount of distance with e85 as it would have with gas.
No and ifs or butts about it... E85 has less BTU output than gasoline. E85 will yield you 15-25% less gas mileage vs the same amount of gasoline (in gallons).
Summary: It will cost you more yearly to drive with E85 than it will gasoline. It will be like this until E85 is substantially cheaper and .20-.50cents a gal cheaper is not enough to make it worth it yet.
Then on top of it you will have to pay for atleast the parts to convert it to E85.
Not very econimcal at all. But the stuff will sure clean your engine out mixing in 5gals every now and then to a full tank.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...41.html?page=2
Why would you want to goto e85 right now anyway? It actually costs more $$$ to go the same amount of distance with e85 as it would have with gas.
No and ifs or butts about it... E85 has less BTU output than gasoline. E85 will yield you 15-25% less gas mileage vs the same amount of gasoline (in gallons).
Summary: It will cost you more yearly to drive with E85 than it will gasoline. It will be like this until E85 is substantially cheaper and .20-.50cents a gal cheaper is not enough to make it worth it yet.
Then on top of it you will have to pay for atleast the parts to convert it to E85.
Not very econimcal at all. But the stuff will sure clean your engine out mixing in 5gals every now and then to a full tank.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...41.html?page=2
Last edited by remauto1187; 02-09-2010 at 06:17 PM.
02-09-2010, 06:22 PM
#7
Read the article linked....i didnt write it, popular mechanics did. That info has been around and well known for atleast 7years now that i recall.
Oh sure its real kewl to pour your e85 all over the road while cruising because it just ate through your fuel system somewhere. NOT!
It doesnt eat through metal or the seals in days or months, it takes time, but it will happen. Ever seen how alocohol burns? Really kewl, no flames to see...as your engine compartment is melting in front of your eyes.
I'll pass.
Oh sure its real kewl to pour your e85 all over the road while cruising because it just ate through your fuel system somewhere. NOT!
It doesnt eat through metal or the seals in days or months, it takes time, but it will happen. Ever seen how alocohol burns? Really kewl, no flames to see...as your engine compartment is melting in front of your eyes.
I'll pass.
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02-09-2010, 06:55 PM
#8
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lol then pass and move along remauto. There are PLENTY of articles supporting both sides to the argument, as with everything. Unless you have first hand proof of having a failure on YOUR car, I could care less. I didn't move over to E85 for the "green" effect nor did I move over to save money on gas. I couldn't care less about gas prices or my fuel mileage. Also, FYI, they make dual PCM kits now that allow you to run both tunes in the event you are without. This is why I don't use my car for road trips. The altitude where I live and the mods I have wouldn't take to well in the altitude differences anyway.
Edit: Here is a site arguing the point. Their opinions could be biased but we could argue back and forth all day about this : http://www.change2e85.com/servlet/Page?template=Myths
Edit: Here is a site arguing the point. Their opinions could be biased but we could argue back and forth all day about this : http://www.change2e85.com/servlet/Page?template=Myths
Last edited by deedubb; 02-09-2010 at 07:04 PM.
02-09-2010, 07:15 PM
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Out of our shop, we've got my TBSS, a Fox Mustang (formerly single turbo 5.0, now 6L truck motor with twin 70's), a Zephyr with a junk yard dog 5.3 (fed by a 68mm Bullseye turbo), a 4.6 Cobra with twin 60's, and a 930 Porsche. All of 'em are running on e85; several have been on the corn juice for years. We haven't had one single fuel problem with any of them. My Syclone will be on e85 as well; I'll take the 30% mileage penalty to run ~106 octane at under $2.50 a gallon.
You can listen to the internet naysayers, or you can listen to the people who are actually running e85...your choice.
You can listen to the internet naysayers, or you can listen to the people who are actually running e85...your choice.
02-09-2010, 07:26 PM
#10
Read the article linked....i didnt write it, popular mechanics did. That info has been around and well known for atleast 7years now that i recall.
Oh sure its real kewl to pour your e85 all over the road while cruising because it just ate through your fuel system somewhere. NOT!
It doesnt eat through metal or the seals in days or months, it takes time, but it will happen. Ever seen how alocohol burns? Really kewl, no flames to see...as your engine compartment is melting in front of your eyes.
I'll pass.
Oh sure its real kewl to pour your e85 all over the road while cruising because it just ate through your fuel system somewhere. NOT!
It doesnt eat through metal or the seals in days or months, it takes time, but it will happen. Ever seen how alocohol burns? Really kewl, no flames to see...as your engine compartment is melting in front of your eyes.
I'll pass.
Here we go, another ice cold glass of Hater-Ade anyone??? LOL.....
FYI~ the 15% gasoline that is added helps cold startups as well as providing a color to the flame in the event of a fire.
Unless you have an extinguisher in car (most don't) your car will be toast
if the flames are red, blue, or even clear for that matter.
This site is really starting to lose benefit to the users as a result of people cluttering up threads with useless info and picking fights.
The guy asked a valid question. Help him out, or keep trolling.....
As far as E85 goes, I ran about 30% richer than gas to get me started and about 45% richer in boost.
I run regular Aeroquip braided lines on my build.
E85 is an awesome and cheap boost fuel and if it is available in your area I would say go for it.
On high HP builds, the money saved in race fuel over a few seasons could cover the cost of replacing any fuel system parts that need serviced over time.
I would advise inspecting your filters a few times a year to keep an eye on it.
Good luck!
Jim
02-09-2010, 07:54 PM
#11
lol then pass and move along remauto. There are PLENTY of articles supporting both sides to the argument, as with everything. Unless you have first hand proof of having a failure on YOUR car, I could care less. I didn't move over to E85 for the "green" effect nor did I move over to save money on gas. I couldn't care less about gas prices or my fuel mileage. Also, FYI, they make dual PCM kits now that allow you to run both tunes in the event you are without. This is why I don't use my car for road trips. The altitude where I live and the mods I have wouldn't take to well in the altitude differences anyway.
Edit: Here is a site arguing the point. Their opinions could be biased but we could argue back and forth all day about this : http://www.change2e85.com/servlet/Page?template=Myths
Edit: Here is a site arguing the point. Their opinions could be biased but we could argue back and forth all day about this : http://www.change2e85.com/servlet/Page?template=Myths
You guys wanna whine because i provided facts that you didnt even know and now you realize you shot yourself in the foot, go ahead. Im not hating, sure a engine built SPECIFICALLY for E85 ...since the compression needs to be higher than the typical gasoline engine to take full advantage of. E85 would be a runner and E85 has many advantages over gasoline BUT not in a non E85 equipped engine and fuel system.
And I do personally have a friend that is on his 4th fuel pump in 4-5 yrs since he is running E85 most of the time in a non FFV engine. 96 Suburban vin R : 350 vortec. Ive help him change out the 1st and the 3rd pump assy personally. I suppose they were all duds right? Funny my 1999 GMC sierra Vin R (same setup in case you didnt know) had its fuel pump replaced at 115K and truck is now at 224K with the same pump. Hmm wonder, why? Guess I am just REAL lucky.
Going to buy lottery tickets. BBL
02-09-2010, 07:58 PM
#12
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So you know more now because you provided a link to a magazine???
You provided nothing but opinion (incorrect info by the way).
Sorry to hear about your friends unfortunate luck. I guess his situation out weights ours. I won't kill this guys thread any further. Good luck with that lotto ticket. Too bad it won't buy common sense.
You provided nothing but opinion (incorrect info by the way).
Sorry to hear about your friends unfortunate luck. I guess his situation out weights ours. I won't kill this guys thread any further. Good luck with that lotto ticket. Too bad it won't buy common sense.
02-09-2010, 08:13 PM
#13
Popular Mechanics "just a magazine" ??? What are you smoking? If i was so wrong YOU would have mentioned where i was wrong...you didn't. Hmmm wonder why? Just blowing a little smoke?
The original poster said he was wanting to convert. I told him why he shouldn't with valid facts. It seems as though the poster would probably be using this converted vehicle as a daily driver and NOT a dedicated track car so he probably should know the facts BEFORE he converts.
I didnt see you help in any way whatsoever, unless you count TRYING to jump on me...its ok though i can handle little smart mouth know it all kids. Which is exactly what you have portrayed yourself as.
The original poster said he was wanting to convert. I told him why he shouldn't with valid facts. It seems as though the poster would probably be using this converted vehicle as a daily driver and NOT a dedicated track car so he probably should know the facts BEFORE he converts.
I didnt see you help in any way whatsoever, unless you count TRYING to jump on me...its ok though i can handle little smart mouth know it all kids. Which is exactly what you have portrayed yourself as.
02-09-2010, 09:42 PM
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Blah, blah, blah, blah...a magazine article.
Blah, blah, blah, blah...my "friend's" fuel pump.
How about a half dozen successful conversions, covering imported & domestic cars and trucks from the past 3 decades, running hundreds of thousands of miles, without a single problem?
Sometimes, the naysayers find reality "inconvenient"
Blah, blah, blah, blah...my "friend's" fuel pump.
How about a half dozen successful conversions, covering imported & domestic cars and trucks from the past 3 decades, running hundreds of thousands of miles, without a single problem?
Sometimes, the naysayers find reality "inconvenient"
Last edited by RAACCR; 02-09-2010 at 10:39 PM.
02-10-2010, 03:15 PM
#16
I'll clarify a bit for those not knowledgable in the use if E85....
If you want mileage, E85 is not a good choice, nor is it going to save you any money on your daily driver... unless you live in a major corn producing state that sells E85 very cheaply. It is $.10 less than regular gas here.
If you are looking for performance, especially with forced induction, E85 is the best fuel. It will give you approx 8-10% power with forced induction due to the additional cooling effect & higher octane than that of pump fuel. It also does this without the high price of comparable race fuel. $280/gal with 30% less mileage is nothing compared to $7 per gal race fuel.
On a stock type normally aspirated motor (an LS1 for example), you may see 10hp, but nothing outrageous.
As for fuel system compatibility, most newer tanks are plastic as are the lines... nothing to go wrong here. Most people have no problems with a metal tank in good condition either. Moisture is the enemy here & the reason for most metal tank issues. E85 is harsh on rubber & I would never recommend rubber lines, but most o-rings/seals & injectors used in modern vehicles will have no problems.
Most pumps are not rated for E85 & may have a shorter life span. So far the Walbro pumps that I use are working very well.
FYI this info is based on my actual experience with custom fuel systems & my use of E85 in many vehicles......
If you want mileage, E85 is not a good choice, nor is it going to save you any money on your daily driver... unless you live in a major corn producing state that sells E85 very cheaply. It is $.10 less than regular gas here.
If you are looking for performance, especially with forced induction, E85 is the best fuel. It will give you approx 8-10% power with forced induction due to the additional cooling effect & higher octane than that of pump fuel. It also does this without the high price of comparable race fuel. $280/gal with 30% less mileage is nothing compared to $7 per gal race fuel.
On a stock type normally aspirated motor (an LS1 for example), you may see 10hp, but nothing outrageous.
As for fuel system compatibility, most newer tanks are plastic as are the lines... nothing to go wrong here. Most people have no problems with a metal tank in good condition either. Moisture is the enemy here & the reason for most metal tank issues. E85 is harsh on rubber & I would never recommend rubber lines, but most o-rings/seals & injectors used in modern vehicles will have no problems.
Most pumps are not rated for E85 & may have a shorter life span. So far the Walbro pumps that I use are working very well.
FYI this info is based on my actual experience with custom fuel systems & my use of E85 in many vehicles......
02-10-2010, 03:36 PM
#17
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I have an ls1 with cam pistons rods tune + other mods and i currently run e10 now if i put e85 in for the track it wont ruin anything in the fuel system right?
02-11-2010, 10:26 AM
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I'll clarify a bit for those not knowledgable in the use if E85....
If you want mileage, E85 is not a good choice, nor is it going to save you any money on your daily driver... unless you live in a major corn producing state that sells E85 very cheaply. It is $.10 less than regular gas here.
If you are looking for performance, especially with forced induction, E85 is the best fuel. It will give you approx 8-10% power with forced induction due to the additional cooling effect & higher octane than that of pump fuel. It also does this without the high price of comparable race fuel. $280/gal with 30% less mileage is nothing compared to $7 per gal race fuel.
On a stock type normally aspirated motor (an LS1 for example), you may see 10hp, but nothing outrageous.
As for fuel system compatibility, most newer tanks are plastic as are the lines... nothing to go wrong here. Most people have no problems with a metal tank in good condition either. Moisture is the enemy here & the reason for most metal tank issues. E85 is harsh on rubber & I would never recommend rubber lines, but most o-rings/seals & injectors used in modern vehicles will have no problems.
Most pumps are not rated for E85 & may have a shorter life span. So far the Walbro pumps that I use are working very well.
FYI this info is based on my actual experience with custom fuel systems & my use of E85 in many vehicles......
If you want mileage, E85 is not a good choice, nor is it going to save you any money on your daily driver... unless you live in a major corn producing state that sells E85 very cheaply. It is $.10 less than regular gas here.
If you are looking for performance, especially with forced induction, E85 is the best fuel. It will give you approx 8-10% power with forced induction due to the additional cooling effect & higher octane than that of pump fuel. It also does this without the high price of comparable race fuel. $280/gal with 30% less mileage is nothing compared to $7 per gal race fuel.
On a stock type normally aspirated motor (an LS1 for example), you may see 10hp, but nothing outrageous.
As for fuel system compatibility, most newer tanks are plastic as are the lines... nothing to go wrong here. Most people have no problems with a metal tank in good condition either. Moisture is the enemy here & the reason for most metal tank issues. E85 is harsh on rubber & I would never recommend rubber lines, but most o-rings/seals & injectors used in modern vehicles will have no problems.
Most pumps are not rated for E85 & may have a shorter life span. So far the Walbro pumps that I use are working very well.
FYI this info is based on my actual experience with custom fuel systems & my use of E85 in many vehicles......
E85 here is typically $.40-$.60 cents cheaper than regular 87 octane depending on the time of year. Right now its under $2/gal
02-15-2010, 07:22 PM
#19
My car was converted to E-85 and driven for over a year. No problems whatsoever. 2002 ls1 with stock pump and 42lb injectors. 228/230 cam. E-85 isnt any big deal to switch to for newer cars. When I get it running again, I'll still be using E-85 except with a 403CI, larger injectors, twin in tank pumps, and teflon braided lines.
