MIGHTYMOUSE

iTrader: (59)

i have concern i will run the current set up link to pics out of fuel with the new turbo this season.

i figure this configuration will get me at least 200rwhp over the current set up. the 420 external pump will activate by boost or throttle position, both pumps will run at alternator voltage and the first 255 will stay running the while the second is kicked in.

this keeps from having to sump the tank and keeps the car more streetable to me. i refuse to deal with the whine of inlines while tooling around down and would like to stay away from blasting high voltage to the pumps/having to rely on a secondary booster device.

would love to hear comments.. i need to get a couple things on order with your support. i do have a contact on the pressure valve allready.

does anyone have one of those flow charts on the 420lph?

*edit* the pic looks like crap unless you maximize it

xssive

iTrader: (123)

Looks like a killer setup. As long as you run a seperate hotwire setup to each pump with a relay for each it should support what you are looking at.

The one area of concern for me would be how you plan on attaching the hose to the evap fitting on the pickup. If I remember correctly, you have the '98 metal pickup assembly. I would stongly suggest having a -8an fitting welded/brazed onto that evap tube rather than trying to clamp it on.

MIGHTYMOUSE

iTrader: (59)

yes the wiring would have to be different since they need to run independently

you are exactly right.. i have to work somethin out for that. i have some confidence that if i can push some -6 hose past the barb on the evap tube on the tank that with a good ouple clamps behind it it wont leak or come off even at 70psi or so.. if that doesnt work out i will look into getting one of those gm quick disconnect to AN adaptors.

is there a cheaper place to get those than street and peformance? they want 35 bux for one

xssive

iTrader: (123)

Pure CHoice Performance makes them too.

onfire

iTrader: (17)

Any worries about the 420l putting a pressure head through the y to the walbro? I'm worried about an inbalance there. MM you're making big power now and getting ready to go big big. How about two 420l's in parallel all the way to the back of the rails and use your y block at the front to bring it to one return line?

MIGHTYMOUSE

iTrader: (59)

two 420s mean i have to have at least one external pump on all the time and i dont want to deal with the noise. other than the staggering price, i would love to run two of the pumps if they would be as quiet as stock.

i dont know 'pressure head' so i guess i'm not worried about it but i dont care if there is an imbalance or not as long as it doesnt drop my rail fuel pressure. i'll have to read up on that new term for me, thanks.

Birdie2000

iTrader: (15)

Sounds like a good setup provided the pumps can keep up. Why not feed the 420L pump from the bottom of the tank? Speed Inc. just installs a drills/installs a fitting in the tank so you wouldn't have to sump it or replace the tank. I'd think the pump would be happier pushing instead of pulling...

MIGHTYMOUSE

iTrader: (59)

i was planning on having to do that, but there are a couple good mustang kits that just run a feed line down to the bottom of the tank and work great. (am trying to keep from drilling a hole in my tank if i can avoid it)

if you think about it, the pump would be mounted beside the stock filter in my plans above.. so once the initial strain to get the fluid moving is over, it will actually want to flow that way all on its own... downhill like a siphon.

MIGHTYMOUSE

iTrader: (59)

having trouble with 'pressure head' but from what i read you are worried about the 420 overpowering the 255 to a stall condition and the flow only being as good as the one 420?

i would have to know the head pressure of each pump to see if the 255 is significantly lower than the 420 and i can't find that infomation.. i assume they are both rated well over the 65 or so max psi these will see. i know for a fact the 255 will continue to flow a good amount of fuel even if the pressure is over 80psi.

if this is off onfie could you help some more?

stevieturbo

The Walbro will not be able to maintain the same sort of flows the Bosch will at high pressures. The Bosch excels in that area.
Some flow info here...
http://www.stealth316.com/2-fuelpumpguide.htm#j5

All round it looks good though...a few Q's tho

Why do you have a filter on the return line ??
I assume the one way valve can handle the required flow ??
Apart from cost, why not just mount another Bosch inside the tank to replace the walbro ?
My old cars tank used what looked like an external inline pump, inside the tank. It was a Bosch, altho not an 044.

Or indeed fab a bracket and mount both pumps in tank with suitable filter sock.??

Or resort to a low pressure pump feeding an external swirl pot that supplies the 2 main pumps ??

A common upgrade for Subarus, that run a pair of fuel rails in series as standard, is to modify the lines so both fuel rails are fed in parallel ( via another Y block would do ). Mostly over concerns about fuel supply to the furthest injectors from supply under extreme useage.

I dont think the return side is as important.

Im not aiming for as much power as you, but I built mine...
Tank - filter - A1000, feeding -8 hard alloy tube, to Aeromotive fuel dist block. From dist block, 2 x -6 lines to Aeromotive 5/8" fuel rails ( 1 each ). The return is also -6, pairing together into the Aero reg in a single -6 line, returning to tank in -6 hard alloy.
Pump uses controller.

I used Earls push fit rubber hoses for all -6 flexi connections, with -AN fittings on rails.
The push fit stuff ( rather expensive, but isnt all -AN stuff ) is just simple black rubber hose, secures on barb, no clamps needed. Rated at 250psi. Looks quite neat once fitted. They reccomend crimping the hose finishers ( or use clamps I guess ) if pushing near its 250 limit, or under very hot conditions.
I didnt bother.

stevieturbo

Looking at the pics....

What are the hardline pipe fittings rated at with the compression joint ?? I find that when you tighten these a lot, the compress the pipe itself too. If you intend to dismantle these a few times, they can get difficult to seal again after a few re-tightenings. Just my experience of course, and this was with copper tubing.

I did read somewhere that they are only rated for about 25psi, although I have used them in much much higher situations.

To add... I flared my hard pipes, and used appropriate tube nuts and collars, as I didnt want to use compression joints.

MIGHTYMOUSE

iTrader: (59)

stevie, thanks for the good comments.

i know the 420 will outflow the 255, thats is precisely why i am replacing one of my 255's with it... i need more flow at the same psi.

thanks for the link, i had it, and lost it again.

the filter on the return line is the stock filter (stock pressure line) it was allready there and not leaking so i left it alone. it has not caused enough of a restriction to give me a fit turning the fuel pressure down, so i think the system is happy with it there.

if the bosh external pump was safe to mount inside the tank (need some confirmation!) and if it would actually fit beside my 255 (which would be next to impossible considering the tight fit of two 255's) then i would certainly mount it inside the tank.

if i was to make a secondary cell i wold fill it with race gas.. but i do not have a rear firewall and am trying to keep the car legal for the street.

the rails being in series. maybe it is stupid but i dont want lines and y's all over my engine bay. the calculation i put on the picture is an attempt to justify leaving them in series. if anyone can show me that the calculation or theory is not 'right' then i would love to be corrected and would run y's before and after.

i dont know what the hard tube adaptor is rated at, but it is on the return side of my regulator so it is seeing relatively low psi and i would venture to say well under 25psi. mine has never leaked though i admit i have not removed or needed to remove it and reinstall it for any reason.

the system in the photos link has been on my car for about 2 years and has supplied 836rwhp on 60# injectors. i am now looking to supply a couple hundred more horse than that with the same street manners.

if you could get some photos of your set up i'm sure everyone would like to see them.

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

My dual 420L's a la Speed Inc:

https://ls1tech.com/forums/attachmen...chmentid=17940

MIGHTYMOUSE

iTrader: (59)

john what kind of racket do those things make? have a soundclip?

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

I don't have a sound clip.

I do hear them but they are a lot quieter then my original Weldon 2025 which was super loud.

Dan @ Speed Inc. told me I would hear them but I don't mind hearing them a bit.

stevieturbo

Im still in the very slow process of putting everything together, but heres a couple of pics. Maybe not ideal, but should show enough.

Aeromotive rails ( will be using Siemens 57lb inj. with hindsight that was a bad idea, as they are the larger bodied bosch style injector, and the wiring plug sits slightly higher than the compact LS1 style. I had to grind the rails slightly to get the wiring plug on ). Mototrons probably would have been better. Rails take -8 fittings ( in my case -8 rail, to -6 hose )


Aeromotive reg showing single -6 flexi return into side, with exit to tank underneath using -6 flexi, simply clamped onto -6 alloy return.
Fuel distribution block ( in black ), fed via -8 alloy tube is seen behind the reg. The 2 barbed -6 fittings for the rubber push on hose can be seen, which will feed the fuel rails. I have the hoe on now for these.


Custom alloy fuel tank, with internal collector feeding Aero filter ( via bottom of tank, using 5/8 rubber oil/fuel hose, with clips ), and A1000, feeding the -8 alloy tube ( red ). Return is to top of tank, and isnt yet in the picture, but will just be rubber hose from the -6 alloy.
I did want a sump style collector, but the people who made the tank wanted to do an internal collector with trapdoors. So far I havent had any problems, but I dont run it too low in fuel.

Fuel Rails at TB end showing Tee'd return line. Rubber hose is not yet on return to reg, but the barb can be seen. Return to reg will run parallel to fuel rail.


Tank in car ( old photo ), Pump controller can be seen also on side of tank.

onfire

iTrader: (17)

That's exactly what I'm wondering. It's an interesting setup. I've designed some 400 psi mega systems that move 1.2 SpGr fluids, but they are in series . If the 420 is significantly stronger than the 255, It's going to try to pump both directions at the y and put a pressure head on the 255....but it may not be an issue without the specs, etc....it would be easy to isolate each pump on a circuit and try each one independently and then together if you want real world data.....just time them to fill a 5 gallon bucket...carefully.

xssive

iTrader: (123)

That could be solved with a check valve on each pump feed line before the Y

onfire

iTrader: (17)

That would keep any potential back flow from reaching the pump. The pressure head past the check valve could still exist. I'd use an orifice like the stock regulator and field test them.....cheap and easy.

MIGHTYMOUSE

iTrader: (59)

yea i could run two check valves your right.

i have to think i will be moving enough fuel to use it as it is comming out ( without maxing the regulator) if the regulator maxed out then the 420 may try to push back on the 255 but i can't think it would be doing anything different than if i had one rail fed by a 255 and one rail fed by a 420..??