m6z

iTrader: (5)

The gas station i usually go to has just started putting 10% ethanol in their 89 fuel. They now only have regular 87, 89 and 89 with 10% ethanol. No longer do they carry 91. Can any one give me any more info on the ethanol blend? Guess its time to start getting gas some where they still carry 91?

rush7

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, I wouldn't put that crap in my engine. A quick search and you'll find people on here that attribute engine problems they've been having to that crap fuel additive. A lot of the problem with the E-10 blend is the sensitivity of the octane, which is the difference between the motor and research numbers. When this is a high difference it tends to be detrimental even if the fuel has a high octane number itself. Someone else can probably elaborate more on that, but there's plenty of posts about it.

Yeah, I would try to find another gas station if you have a selection (hopefully you live or work in an area that doesn't have just one station...I have to drive at least 20 miles just to get 91...at least I work in a bigger city). A few of the BP's in KS carry 92 as well also; I might search for those. That's where I usually get my gas these days. I'm still searching for a place in Topeka to get 93 or higher gas besides the race pumps at HPT...Kansas really screws us when it comes to gas (and quite a few other dumb rules).

But if I were you, take your business elsewhere and don't put that junk in your tank.

GuitsBoy

iTrader: (4)

Sadly, every gas station around me has fuel with 10% ethanol. I believe its an emissions control mandated for my area (metro NY area). My gas milage has gone down with it and tuning is way off from normal gas.

Phoenix64

iTrader: (3)

Whats so bad about ethanol? I run 85% ethanol in my car, works great. Car runs cooler, and can run more timing under boost. Has an octane rating of 104-106. Also increases the VE of the engine.

GuitsBoy

iTrader: (4)

My VE table needed to be lowered when they switched to 10% ethanol.

After they first switched, all my fuel trims went positive, I started getting ping where there was none, and my milage dropped down a couple MPG. If youre running a high compression race car or (in your case) a high psi FI application, then ethanol may have some virtues, but in a motor desined for pump gas, its detrimental IMO.

Muffracing

Minnesota mandates 10% in all pump gas, and they are going to raise it to 20%.
I would run E-85 if I knew it wouldn't hurt anything since it is about $1.70 vs. $2.35 for 91.
E-85 has a minimum octane rating of 104.

rush7

iTrader: (2)

I thought a vehicle had to be designed to run on the E-85. Some of our work trucks proudly advertise the ability to run that fuel.

Zymosis

iTrader: (7)

I was really wondering the same thing. What really sucks, is the station that used to carry 100 octance race gas, traded it off for E-85. When I saw that I wanted to

sawedoff

iTrader: (3)

This is not a bad thing here. They're starting to do this in professional motorsports. They've quietly been sneaking it into INDY cars for awhile now. Yes, your engine will be just fine in these amounts. Ethanol has a 108 octane rating. There won't be any compatability problems with fuel components. If you have your car tuned to the dime, you will benefit by retuning to this new fuel. It's a new animal all together.

rush7

iTrader: (2)

so what i'm guessing here, for the e-10 that seems to screw so many of our vehicles, they probably take the worst gas they could find, throw some ethanol in, and call it higher octane...when if 10% eth gas was brewed with 91 or 93 to begin with (which would raise those numbers by around 2 (real) points a piece), it would be much better?

just my guess, but the 89 version of e-10 unleaded gas would have to start out as 87, then add the ethanol, and call it 89..........since it started out as the low grade stuff to begin with, and still exists as 90% such, this would make sense why it doesn't run up to standard.

based on this line of thinking, 85% might not be that bad since it's mostly ethanol, and at a much higher octane rating...(except that the energy per unit volume of ethanol is lower than gasoline)

interesting

racecar

My C5 Service manual declares do not use gasoline with alcohol additives, it is not compatable with the fuel system. The bosch fuel injector literature says the same thing.
Is ti going to deteriorate the o'rings in the fuel system, or cause corrosion??
Is this stuff really bad for your car. Why have IRL and CART used it for years?

SS2win

iTrader: (11)

unless the fuel system is designed for ethanol then you cant run over a certain percentage without it damaging components. Pure ethanol is corrosive to most fuel systems but 10% is considered safe. I dont think it would be safe to run 85% in these cars without replacing all the lines, injectors, etc.

Richiec77

iTrader: (3)

Nope. Cannot run high ammounts of ethenol in our vehicles. The fuel system wasn't designed for it. You need Special O-Rings, and lined Fuel tanks and rails.

Even though the Octane rating is higher in Ethenol, it's BTU content is lower. So, you have to run more fuel to attain the same power levels. That is why the VE tables are different and your MPG goes down.

FYI and a By the way, This is why some people swear by race gas that it gives more power. It can if it's BTU content is higher due to the Chemicles used to make-up the fuel. So, in some cases, it can make more power.

GuitsBoy

iTrader: (4)

How much lower MPG? If gas priced double what e-85 is, would we do better than half the mileage? Also, what about oxygen sensors or is this an open loop only type of thing? I dont think they sell the stuff near me anyway, but i was just curious, especially if you were to go forced induction.

Richiec77

iTrader: (3)

Not sure off-hand, but I believe I just read that it is in the neiborhood of around 13-14K BTU for Ethenol vs 16-17K BTU for Gas. That would show roughly about 10-15% drop. Less for a FI car due to the Higher Octane rating and not needing to run the extra fuel to cool the Charge down more.

I'll go and see if I can find where I read this info and get it to ya.

sawedoff

iTrader: (3)

Because it's cleaner burning than gasoline, it will not harm your sensors. It can work in closed loop or open, either way. It's also less hazardous than regular petroleum.

sawedoff

iTrader: (3)

Ethanol

Heats of Vaporization (MJ/kg) 0.93
Lower Calorific Value (MJ/kg) 26.8
Boiling Point (oC) 78
Blending Motor Octane No (MON) 95-106
Blending Research Octane No (RON) 112-120
Density (kg/m3) 790

Hope this helps.

Camaro99SS

iTrader: (4)

This is why I wish manufactuers would start offering vehicles designed to run on propane. All it would take is a tank to hold it at a higher pressure. They have fairly easy ways of filling up with propane. Propane has more BTU's of energy than gasoline for better mileage, burns clean (my car with true duals wouldn't register on a sniffer) which translates to fewer oil changes, burns cooler, and has an octane of 104. No more BS emission checks and big R&D spent toward smog equipment on cars.
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=1

I've also heard of a guy with a 5.9 Grand Cherokee getting low 20mpg in the city running it on propane.

Jason

spy2520

iTrader: (3)

Is ethanol better than methanol? My go-kart uses methanol, and it just seems that in general, methanol is more widely used in automobiles, especially in motorsports. Maybe i just answered my own question.

GuitsBoy

iTrader: (4)

Ive never seen methanol mixed with regular fuel.