runnin on corn.....
runnin on corn..... I read and watch all the hype on biofuels replacing conventional fuel, and it is a pretty amazing alternative. All of the diesel trucks that leave the lines of the big 3 get biodiesel to fill up their tanks now. The aspect im curious about it the performance ally. I live in Florida, and we pill probably be the last state to get ethanol fuels down here, so im looking for anyone in the midwest who has had an experience with 85% ethanol fuel and had any sort of comparison to standard fuel. Runs better, worse, cant tell a differance, etc. Not the most exciting of questions, but we were discussing it today, and figured that there has to be somesort of trade off, just wondering if the minds on LS1tech had any ideas.
Well in order to run E85 (85% Ethanol, 15% gasoline) you need to have an "E85 capable vehicle". Meaning a vehicle that either comes from the factory ready to run on E85 or a vehicle converted to run E85. Putting E85 in a stock fuel system designed for gasoline will ruin a bunch of things, and the car will run like crap.
Its also important to note that Ethanol will give you less power and worse fuel economy compared to gasoline in an otherwise identical engine. Ethanol has less energy per unit, so you need more ethanol to equal the same output of gasoline. Of course this isn't a problem if the engine is designed to run Ethanol in the first place, meaning higher compression, special fuel system, ect. The good news is that E85 can have an octane rating of up to 115, which would allow for some seriously advanced timing as well as high compression ratios
I think Ethanol is the future means of powering our vehicles, we just need to start implemting it into more vehicles from the factory and make refueling stations more available throughout the country.
Its also important to note that Ethanol will give you less power and worse fuel economy compared to gasoline in an otherwise identical engine. Ethanol has less energy per unit, so you need more ethanol to equal the same output of gasoline. Of course this isn't a problem if the engine is designed to run Ethanol in the first place, meaning higher compression, special fuel system, ect. The good news is that E85 can have an octane rating of up to 115, which would allow for some seriously advanced timing as well as high compression ratios
I think Ethanol is the future means of powering our vehicles, we just need to start implemting it into more vehicles from the factory and make refueling stations more available throughout the country.
Teching In
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
From: Omaha, Nebraska
I have used E85 in my 2002 Tahoe. When I used the Hypertech to up the timing to the 93 octane setting it didn't ping. Also we have been told it is 105 Octane around here (Omaha, NE). No noticeable increase in performance but also no problems. Mileage dropped from 12.5-13 to 11.75-12.25. They managed to jack the price up til it is higher than E10.
i was recently told that an engine built to run exclusivly on e85 will have better peformance with that fuel than a comparable engine running on regular unleaded.
i also beleive that ethenol is our best bet and that many people are overlooking e85 as a near term solution for our dependense on foreign oil. brazil after next year will be almost totally foreign oil independent because they produce so much e85 domestically and they have a population of 180 million people.
i also beleive that ethenol is our best bet and that many people are overlooking e85 as a near term solution for our dependense on foreign oil. brazil after next year will be almost totally foreign oil independent because they produce so much e85 domestically and they have a population of 180 million people.
Originally Posted by 1999 SS
i was recently told that an engine built to run exclusivly on e85 will have better peformance with that fuel than a comparable engine running on regular unleaded.
i also beleive that ethenol is our best bet and that many people are overlooking e85 as a near term solution for our dependense on foreign oil. brazil after next year will be almost totally foreign oil independent because they produce so much e85 domestically and they have a population of 180 million people.
i also beleive that ethenol is our best bet and that many people are overlooking e85 as a near term solution for our dependense on foreign oil. brazil after next year will be almost totally foreign oil independent because they produce so much e85 domestically and they have a population of 180 million people.
I wouldn't mind paying more for Ethanol knowing that its a renewable fuel, is Domestically produced, and that the price would go down once production and resources increase.
The reason a vehicle may actually make more power on Ethanol would be due to the high octane rating, it allows for more compression and advanced timing over a comparable gas engine
Originally Posted by Wesmanw02
Agreed. Its promising technology, we just need to get rid of Bush and his currupt oil cronies so we can start implementing E85 into new cars
I wouldn't mind paying more for Ethanol knowing that its a renewable fuel, is Domestically produced, and that the price would go down once production and resources increase.
The reason a vehicle may actually make more power on Ethanol would be due to the high octane rating, it allows for more compression and advanced timing over a comparable gas engine
I wouldn't mind paying more for Ethanol knowing that its a renewable fuel, is Domestically produced, and that the price would go down once production and resources increase.
The reason a vehicle may actually make more power on Ethanol would be due to the high octane rating, it allows for more compression and advanced timing over a comparable gas engine
Anyway, maybe someday we can make fuel out of
: That would have the import guys all hyped up, lol.
Originally Posted by brad8266
Yeah lets blame Bush, lol. Liberals
Anyway, maybe someday we can make fuel out of: That would have the import guys all hyped up, lol.
Anyway, maybe someday we can make fuel out of
: That would have the import guys all hyped up, lol.
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Originally Posted by Domestic Demon
Bush is most definitey the worst president in the history of the United States. The guy has practically ruined this country
Bush is surely not the best president out there but you have to give him some credit here, he has done somne great things, but it seems Iraq and the deficiet have given him a very bad rep.
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Originally Posted by brad8266
Yes Bush has ruined the country. Nevermind that there havs not been another attack on American soil since 9/11. And lets forget about the liberal left that will just not allow there to be any type of laws on restricting illegal immigrtion. I also assume you want to pay more taxes too.
Bush is surely not the best president out there but you have to give him some credit here, he has done somne great things, but it seems Iraq and the deficiet have given him a very bad rep.
Bush is surely not the best president out there but you have to give him some credit here, he has done somne great things, but it seems Iraq and the deficiet have given him a very bad rep.
We have e85 around here. It cost the same as 87 but it get 3/4 of the milage. I would buy it if my car was able to run on e85. I also think its 105 octane.
Originally Posted by Wesmanw02
Agreed. Its promising technology, we just need to get rid of Bush and his currupt oil cronies so we can start implementing E85 into new cars
but on a lighter note, if the MPG are much less - how do you guys think the prices will go....i mean obviously the price of corn etc. will increase and farmers will be bankrolling, so it seems really good for the economy to me just as long as it's not going to be 2.50 / gal. for 11 mpg. poo on that.
Originally Posted by brad8266
Yes Bush has ruined the country. Nevermind that there havs not been another attack on American soil since 9/11. And lets forget about the liberal left that will just not allow there to be any type of laws on restricting illegal immigrtion. I also assume you want to pay more taxes too.
Bush is surely not the best president out there but you have to give him some credit here, he has done somne great things, but it seems Iraq and the deficiet have given him a very bad rep.
Bush is surely not the best president out there but you have to give him some credit here, he has done somne great things, but it seems Iraq and the deficiet have given him a very bad rep.
Bush has the highest national defecit in history, he can't complete a sentence without stumbling over his own basic grammer, he started a war in Iraq without any real justification, and he never even caught the masterminds behind the 9/11 terrorist attacks. What has he done for this country?? Nothing.
His approval rating has sunk to something pathetic like 34%. Sorry, but you're the minority in your support of Bush.
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 680
Likes: 0
From: Jamestown, NY
Originally Posted by Domestic Demon
Dude seriously, don't get me started
Bush has the highest national defecit in history, he can't complete a sentence without stumbling over his own basic grammer, he started a war in Iraq without any real justification, and he never even caught the masterminds behind the 9/11 terrorist attacks. What has he done for this country?? Nothing.
His approval rating has sunk to something pathetic like 34%. Sorry, but you're the minority in your support of Bush.
Bush has the highest national defecit in history, he can't complete a sentence without stumbling over his own basic grammer, he started a war in Iraq without any real justification, and he never even caught the masterminds behind the 9/11 terrorist attacks. What has he done for this country?? Nothing.
His approval rating has sunk to something pathetic like 34%. Sorry, but you're the minority in your support of Bush.
And Kerry Would be be doing better job?... Please The only thing the democrats are good at is creating Bullshit arguments and confusing the general pubic.
so...
Staging Lane
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
Everyone is all worried about themselves and their mpg. The best part about E85 is that its emissions are MUCH lower than gas.
Most cars running on alky will require NO emissions equipment or cats.
To take full advantage of any alky fuels, compression ratios need to be increased because of the high octance and ignition timing needs to be played with.
Alky prices will go down when automakers imbrace it more. Should be interesting when that happens
Check out Popular Science, Mechanics and Scientific American this month for a great store on alt. fuels/vechiles vs gas.
Most cars running on alky will require NO emissions equipment or cats.
To take full advantage of any alky fuels, compression ratios need to be increased because of the high octance and ignition timing needs to be played with.
Alky prices will go down when automakers imbrace it more. Should be interesting when that happens
Check out Popular Science, Mechanics and Scientific American this month for a great store on alt. fuels/vechiles vs gas.
Originally Posted by JPMuscle
And Kerry Would be be doing better job?... Please The only thing the democrats are good at is creating Bullshit arguments and confusing the general pubic.
so...
so...
i'd figure out your **** before you open your mouth, seriously... 
big business owns whoever is in the white house.......but enough of that
ethanol is far from a sure thing....i think it could be used as a stopgap until a truly alternative fuel is sussed out(like hydrogen), but i don't think we will ever be, nor should we be completely dependant on it.....as one writer put it, right now we might be bankrolling terrorists who hate our guts, but you don't think third world countries will spawn terrorists when we are using food, that they can't afford to eat, as fuel??? the market would still fluxuate with weather, i'm guessing the price of a can of corn would go up, we'd have to go to all stainless steel tanks and lines,ect.,ect....and thats assuming it gets past the point of using more energy to produce ethanol than it actually creates......not too mention that for us to grow enough corn to completely cover our consumption we'd have to use 3/4s of our countries farmland....that's not gonna happen....
ethanol is far from a sure thing....i think it could be used as a stopgap until a truly alternative fuel is sussed out(like hydrogen), but i don't think we will ever be, nor should we be completely dependant on it.....as one writer put it, right now we might be bankrolling terrorists who hate our guts, but you don't think third world countries will spawn terrorists when we are using food, that they can't afford to eat, as fuel??? the market would still fluxuate with weather, i'm guessing the price of a can of corn would go up, we'd have to go to all stainless steel tanks and lines,ect.,ect....and thats assuming it gets past the point of using more energy to produce ethanol than it actually creates......not too mention that for us to grow enough corn to completely cover our consumption we'd have to use 3/4s of our countries farmland....that's not gonna happen....
Originally Posted by jdustu
big business owns whoever is in the white house.......but enough of that
ethanol is far from a sure thing....i think it could be used as a stopgap until a truly alternative fuel is sussed out(like hydrogen), but i don't think we will ever be, nor should we be completely dependant on it.....as one writer put it, right now we might be bankrolling terrorists who hate our guts, but you don't think third world countries will spawn terrorists when we are using food, that they can't afford to eat, as fuel??? the market would still fluxuate with weather, i'm guessing the price of a can of corn would go up, we'd have to go to all stainless steel tanks and lines,ect.,ect....and thats assuming it gets past the point of using more energy to produce ethanol than it actually creates......not too mention that for us to grow enough corn to completely cover our consumption we'd have to use 3/4s of our countries farmland....that's not gonna happen....
ethanol is far from a sure thing....i think it could be used as a stopgap until a truly alternative fuel is sussed out(like hydrogen), but i don't think we will ever be, nor should we be completely dependant on it.....as one writer put it, right now we might be bankrolling terrorists who hate our guts, but you don't think third world countries will spawn terrorists when we are using food, that they can't afford to eat, as fuel??? the market would still fluxuate with weather, i'm guessing the price of a can of corn would go up, we'd have to go to all stainless steel tanks and lines,ect.,ect....and thats assuming it gets past the point of using more energy to produce ethanol than it actually creates......not too mention that for us to grow enough corn to completely cover our consumption we'd have to use 3/4s of our countries farmland....that's not gonna happen....
Why the hell would you want to switch to a completely different engine technology, which is less powerful, less efficient, more expensive, and just plain worse than internal combustion?? Not only that, but it would render all late model vehicles obselete, and every fuel station in the country would have to be torn down and redesigned to distribute hydrogen.
The solution is to continue using internal combustion and the technology that we already have, but to modift it to run on a different fuel. Ethanol is a great alternative. It makes almost as much power as gas, it burns cleanly, it can be domestically produced, and all vehicles could run on it with some modifications made to their fuel systems.
Somehow that just makes a hell of a lot more sense...
Originally Posted by Domestic Demon
Hydrogen is a joke, it wouldn't be practical to run vehicles on it by any means. Not only is it hard to store and extremely flammable, but its also hardly makes any power and has a terrible mileage range per unit.
Why the hell would you want to switch to a completely different engine technology, which is less powerful, less efficient, more expensive, and just plain worse than internal combustion?? Not only that, but it would render all late model vehicles obselete, and every fuel station in the country would have to be torn down and redesigned to distribute hydrogen.
The solution is to continue using internal combustion and the technology that we already have, but to modift it to run on a different fuel. Ethanol is a great alternative. It makes almost as much power as gas, it burns cleanly, it can be domestically produced, and all vehicles could run on it with some modifications made to their fuel systems.
Somehow that just makes a hell of a lot more sense...
Why the hell would you want to switch to a completely different engine technology, which is less powerful, less efficient, more expensive, and just plain worse than internal combustion?? Not only that, but it would render all late model vehicles obselete, and every fuel station in the country would have to be torn down and redesigned to distribute hydrogen.
The solution is to continue using internal combustion and the technology that we already have, but to modift it to run on a different fuel. Ethanol is a great alternative. It makes almost as much power as gas, it burns cleanly, it can be domestically produced, and all vehicles could run on it with some modifications made to their fuel systems.
Somehow that just makes a hell of a lot more sense...
it's not like we're gonna switch overnight......hydrogen(which i listed as a possible alternative) has definite issues at the moment, but who knows what could happen down the road.....science has overcome bigger obstacles in the past.....it could possibly still be used in i/c engines, and the only "waste" product is water.....side note: everone is scared of hydrogen because they picture a zepplin blowing up, when in reality the thing went down due to the flammable aluminum coated fabric it was built with(it "burned", it didn't explode)
e85 can makes sense, but it's not the end all solution....you still need a non-renewable resource(oil) to make it work, and many other factors will limit its overall mass production ability.......
as far as making all "late model vehicles" out of date, what will happen is not a "blink of the eye" sort of thing.....just like you have diesel, propane, electric, ect. powered cars on the road right now, no alternative is gonna sweep the country in weekend..........
i think hydrogen is easily 20 years from being to the point where it can START to take off as a replacement to to fossil fuels.
i pretty sure we will never be foreign oil independent in my lifetime (im 30) but thats not entirely a bad thing as long as the foreigners with the oil arnt in a position to hold it over our heads which also really furthers the idea of nuclear energy as a non polluting and safe energy source (with current technology).
e85 is a good idea as is low sulfur deisel and even electric cars all being great alternatives to gasoline and each with their own place in the market. deisel with its low speed power electric for not having emissions gasoline for performance and e85 for cost(as the industry grows) and because it and biodeseil are domestic made products.
i pretty sure we will never be foreign oil independent in my lifetime (im 30) but thats not entirely a bad thing as long as the foreigners with the oil arnt in a position to hold it over our heads which also really furthers the idea of nuclear energy as a non polluting and safe energy source (with current technology).
e85 is a good idea as is low sulfur deisel and even electric cars all being great alternatives to gasoline and each with their own place in the market. deisel with its low speed power electric for not having emissions gasoline for performance and e85 for cost(as the industry grows) and because it and biodeseil are domestic made products.
Originally Posted by JPMuscle
And Kerry Would be be doing better job?... Please The only thing the democrats are good at is creating Bullshit arguments and confusing the general pubic.
so...
so...
Since some liberals like to blame bush for the gas prices, why not go look at the profit margins of Exxon-Mobil from the last 5 years? They have had anywhere from 5.7% to 10% profit margin in the last 5 years, so how is it that you stupid liberals think that it is Bush that drives up gas prices when the oil companies profit margins have not moved much?? What that means is that for every 90 cents the oil company invests, they get 10cents in return. Thats not a huge profit is it?? Explain that for me. Go to Exxons website and look it up for yourself if you dont believe me.
BTW I am not a big Bush supporter, but you liberals should stop blaming him for everything when you guys have no ideas on anything, except to raise taxes.