Torsen advice
03-03-2009, 03:35 PM
#2
TECH Resident
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Omahaish. Nebraska.
Posts: 855
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's supposed to react like a limited slip posi unit, but if it's on the way out, you'll get the dreaded one wheel peel. In a drag racing setup, both tires should hook/spin.
03-03-2009, 11:05 PM
#5
This is whats in a torsen, if any of it wears out it'll break.
This one in the pic has 156,000 miles on it and does not show signs of wear.
These are torsen T1's that came stock in f bodies, they are torque biasing. That means 100% torque from the pinion goes to the diff. In a perfect world you'd get 50% to each wheel but if one looses traction it splits it. They work well but torsens theory of operation kind of contradicts itself because if one wheel looses traction it gets more torque. For example if you jack one tire up and run it, the tire in the air spins and the tire on the ground gets 0% torque.
So if for some reason your tires don't grip evenly, the one with the least traction gets more torque.
This one in the pic has 156,000 miles on it and does not show signs of wear.
These are torsen T1's that came stock in f bodies, they are torque biasing. That means 100% torque from the pinion goes to the diff. In a perfect world you'd get 50% to each wheel but if one looses traction it splits it. They work well but torsens theory of operation kind of contradicts itself because if one wheel looses traction it gets more torque. For example if you jack one tire up and run it, the tire in the air spins and the tire on the ground gets 0% torque.
So if for some reason your tires don't grip evenly, the one with the least traction gets more torque.
03-03-2009, 11:17 PM
#6
You'll never get both wheels locked together with a Torsen, its not possible.
But its also not like an open diff at all, because it transfers torque side to side depending on traction.
So if the left wheel has 60% of the available traction and the right wheel has 40% of the available traction, thats exactly how the diff will distribute the power, 60/40. And it can change in a split second, depending on the conditions.
03-04-2009, 02:30 PM
#7
Look at it like this. A stock open diff has a 2:1 ratio in the spider gears. This makes it easier to spin one wheel.
The Torsen works on the same theory but it uses a 4:1 ratio which makes it more difficult to spin just one wheel.
FWIW Torsens for different vehicles have different split ratios. And they also have a T2 which also uses clutches.
The Torsen works on the same theory but it uses a 4:1 ratio which makes it more difficult to spin just one wheel.
FWIW Torsens for different vehicles have different split ratios. And they also have a T2 which also uses clutches.
Trending Topics
03-04-2009, 02:43 PM
#8
This is whats in a torsen, if any of it wears out it'll break.
This one in the pic has 156,000 miles on it and does not show signs of wear.
These are torsen T1's that came stock in f bodies, they are torque biasing. That means 100% torque from the pinion goes to the diff. In a perfect world you'd get 50% to each wheel but if one looses traction it splits it. They work well but torsens theory of operation kind of contradicts itself because if one wheel looses traction it gets more torque. For example if you jack one tire up and run it, the tire in the air spins and the tire on the ground gets 0% torque.
So if for some reason your tires don't grip evenly, the one with the least traction gets more torque.
This one in the pic has 156,000 miles on it and does not show signs of wear.
These are torsen T1's that came stock in f bodies, they are torque biasing. That means 100% torque from the pinion goes to the diff. In a perfect world you'd get 50% to each wheel but if one looses traction it splits it. They work well but torsens theory of operation kind of contradicts itself because if one wheel looses traction it gets more torque. For example if you jack one tire up and run it, the tire in the air spins and the tire on the ground gets 0% torque.
So if for some reason your tires don't grip evenly, the one with the least traction gets more torque.
03-04-2009, 03:09 PM
#9
03-04-2009, 10:05 PM
#10
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (96)
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Turnin' Wrenches Infractions: 005
Posts: 24,241
Likes: 0
Received 79 Likes
on
70 Posts
i believe the torsens do function well in real life. the minute i lose traction the car gets very loose in the back indicating that both wheels are breaking loose. all black marks starting from a dead stop are identical copies on the left/right side. i have NEVER one wheel peeled.
03-05-2009, 02:06 PM
#11
On The Tree
Thread Starter
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: wisconsin
Posts: 163
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i believe the torsens do function well in real life. the minute i lose traction the car gets very loose in the back indicating that both wheels are breaking loose. all black marks starting from a dead stop are identical copies on the left/right side. i have NEVER one wheel peeled.
03-05-2009, 05:33 PM
#14
Moderator
iTrader: (11)
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: East Central Florida
Posts: 12,605
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
6 Posts
You have to understand how the Torsen tries to
work. The "processor" (gear chunk) splits torque
between axles giving more to the slower one, up
to its torque bias limit. On the stock piece the
bias limit is only about 2:1. Two things about that.
One is, 2:1 is less than the ratio between static
and sliding friction for many materials-pairs. This
is where you can get "one wheel peel" - 2X the
sliding-friction back-torque on the spinning wheel
may be less than it takes to break loose the
other. I suspect this may have been a deliberate
choice on GM's part, because they don't want a
whole bunch of tail-happy Camaros hitting trees
and the wheel that doesn't spin, is giving directional
stability.
Two, what you get from this 2:1 split is a thrust
force that is 3X the slipping-wheel traction. Better
than an open chunk (1X), worse to some extent
than a locker (how much, depends on how far
wheel #2 is from breaking loose).
Now, I have a T2-R chunk in mine and it breaks
them both loose whenever I please and often
when I don't, because its bias limit is a lot higher.
My reason (or excuse) to go to the upgraded
chunk was, at 20Kmiles I had the cover off and
found a whole lot of shavings. The Torsen is
not supposed to wear, and it doesn't as long
as you don't abuse it. But once you go past the
bias limit it quits sticking and starts scrubbing.
I've been told the Torsens aren't up to hard
drag launches but fortunately my tires and
suspension are not going to put me there any
time soon.
work. The "processor" (gear chunk) splits torque
between axles giving more to the slower one, up
to its torque bias limit. On the stock piece the
bias limit is only about 2:1. Two things about that.
One is, 2:1 is less than the ratio between static
and sliding friction for many materials-pairs. This
is where you can get "one wheel peel" - 2X the
sliding-friction back-torque on the spinning wheel
may be less than it takes to break loose the
other. I suspect this may have been a deliberate
choice on GM's part, because they don't want a
whole bunch of tail-happy Camaros hitting trees
and the wheel that doesn't spin, is giving directional
stability.
Two, what you get from this 2:1 split is a thrust
force that is 3X the slipping-wheel traction. Better
than an open chunk (1X), worse to some extent
than a locker (how much, depends on how far
wheel #2 is from breaking loose).
Now, I have a T2-R chunk in mine and it breaks
them both loose whenever I please and often
when I don't, because its bias limit is a lot higher.
My reason (or excuse) to go to the upgraded
chunk was, at 20Kmiles I had the cover off and
found a whole lot of shavings. The Torsen is
not supposed to wear, and it doesn't as long
as you don't abuse it. But once you go past the
bias limit it quits sticking and starts scrubbing.
I've been told the Torsens aren't up to hard
drag launches but fortunately my tires and
suspension are not going to put me there any
time soon.
03-13-2009, 02:02 PM
#16
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The stock torsen break WAY too easy! I would go with an Auburn BUT have it balanced before you install it! I picked up a 50+mph vibration after installing the Auburn carrier...uninstalling it solved it! They are very heavy and need some extra attention.
03-13-2009, 10:44 PM
#17
03-13-2009, 10:56 PM
#18
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Funny how is that? You don't think a carrier could be out of balance? Better think again...its quite common.Have any idea how much something that heavy can shake the rear? By the way Torsen spends the extra time to balance their units!
03-13-2009, 11:04 PM
#19
They come balanced. Auburns, Eatons. Guess you bought one off ebay that had the bubba mod.
03-13-2009, 11:10 PM
#20
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well the new one i got from them was WAY OUT!. We finally pulled the axles and ran it on the lift, Rear shook at anything above 50 MPH. Bought a nice new Torsen and no more vibrations. The Auburn is aloso MUCH heavier than the torsen. The Auburn HAD NO signs of being balanced! The Torsen DOES. I know you know everything so just do me a favor and save your comments for the next guy...i've been doing this about 35+ years....