Nando92

lemons is so knowledgeable

lemons12

iTrader: (71)

Eh, depends on who you ask I guess.

I think informative would be the better word I believe, I only know a little bit about a little bit In the big picture.

DadsZ28

iTrader: (1)

When I get that close to 10.90s and need that .10 or 2 then I should do that. Everyone still tells me to do it but I still am not convinced.....maybe go to a bigger converter? And I still have some more minor mods to do, oh well interesting thread didn't mean to hijack it. Any of you in here go from a 3200 to 3600-4000 and pick up et?

justin hover

Personally...I think you could go either way...

Theirs no doubt though that my 0-35,45 and 55 is much better funner/out performs the 2:73s by a long shot. I really got the gears because of the 2nd and 3rd gear pull. Before... first gear in a4s is long and pulls ok with the 2:73s, but 2nd and 3rd gear is where it really suffered, it's like you lose all your torque, you slow down as opposed to flying through the rest of the gearing...when I drove it yestarday...no prob hooking on first gear, second and third now pulls you 3x faster then it did before. Did I really gain performance yes/no... quarter mile times prob.not....my dd city driving, hell yes... theirs no comparison between the 2 gears though..the 3:73s really woke my car up.. I think I would've been happy with a stall but I have hated these gears ever since I drove this car...I've rode in a couple ws6s before I bought this car...I was impressed...when I bought my car I was like WTF...what happened..then I found out I what stock gears I was running very dissapointed eversince...if I would've got a stall first...I'm sure I would be happy..but I would've spent the rest of the year wondering what everyone else was talking about when they made the jump in gears...it would've drove me crazy...if I would've had 3:08 or 323s I would've been sitten here talking about my 3800 stall instead.....but the 2:73s have to go in this situation....they're horrible no matter which way you dice it

lemons12

iTrader: (71)

Lol... you just said you picked up performance but not et, impossible.. It did make the car more fun though. You picked up little to nothing in that swap, it FEELS like you did. Gears make it FEEL like you have an extra 50rwhp, fact is they show little to no gains at the track in an auto. I would love for someone to show me different, with proof, It has not happened yet.
It shifts quicker so it seems as if you are pulling harder through the gears, it knocked out your third gear lag at 90mph, that's pretty much it.
You can argue you like gears all you want. You can't say anything about converters and you can't argue countless tests that show gears give little to no performance gain.


Dadsz... a 3200 converter is good for around 1.7s..3600 1.6s..4000 1.5s. Every .1 in the sixty foot is worth .2 on the big end. Going from a 3200 to a 4000 should net you around a .4 reduction. You will pick up a nice chunk making that switch. I recommend a 4k ptc.

DadsZ28

iTrader: (1)

Dadsz... a 3200 converter is good for around 1.7s..3600 1.6s..4000 1.5s. Every .1 in the sixty foot is worth .2 on the big end. Going from a 3200 to a 4000 should net you around a .4 reduction. You will pick up a nice chunk making that switch. I recommend a 4k ptc


Wow! that would be cool,picking up et with no more hp, thats what makes a stall so great.....I might just have to consider that thanx lemon!

lemons12

iTrader: (71)

I just saw you run at atco.. Take .1-.2 off in the short time for my guide lines on what each size converter is usually good for. Lol
With a 4000 you will easily be in the mid 1.4x, granted traction in close to that same kind of air. I was cutting 1.50-.52 barely spinning in 2200ish DA with 370rwhp, 4000ptc. With traction, 1.4x, better air mid 1.4xs. I would guess that vig also flashes a TAD high as well, 3500 range against another converter like ptc yank circle d, they always seem to. Even at a 3300ish race weight my old 4k vig flashed to around 4300 or so.

Also.. putting a cage in is going to add weight.. running 11.4 will then be 11.5. I wouldnt do it until you were at a solid 11.4 unless you just have to. Just my opinion!

justin hover

If the gears made me FEEL like I picked up 50rwhp...Then I just picked up a
50rwhp......maybe not technically but.....LOVEM..

again....2:73s suck.. bottom line...converter or no converter, nitrious or none, supercharged or not 2:73s suck *** that's all I'm saying....I bet a stall is funner with
3:23s or 3:42s, or 3:73s, not 2:73s...

2:73s suck
2:73s are no good
2:73s are not for any of us
2:73s=....god I hate you
2:73s...you fill in the blank

lemons12

iTrader: (71)

Man, do you not get it? You have no idea if they suck with a converter, nitrous, or anything else cause you have never experienced any of it, PERIOD. There is no arguing that.
A converter is fun regardless of what gears you have the only thing it does is make it seem a tad more tight around town, and even at that it doesn't make it more fun, makes it seem closer to a stock like pick up. The difference is extremely small.
My 4000-4300 converter car was just as much fun with 323s as 410s. Actually more with 323s cause I had a ton more traction, I hooked second gear with 323s, I spun at 50-60mph with 410s and they demolished my mpg.

We get you like them but that is where it ends. You can't speak on converters because you have no experience with them, you can't speak about performance gains because you have no data, I could go on and on. You can talk about the awesome sotp feeling they gave you, just like everyone else.

Trying to be nice about it but you just aren't grasping it.

DadsZ28

iTrader: (1)

Hover I agree that 2.73s definitely need to be replaced...I was just spoiled that mine came with 3.23s it does make a big difference.

Lemon when did you see me run? Was it the you tube vid? And I am on the bubble about the cage unless I am consistently under 11.50 which was only in really cold air. I still don't know which way I'm gonna go yet.

lemons12

iTrader: (71)

Just looked at your new best thread you started.

DadsZ28

iTrader: (1)

Thanx,have a you tube vid from dec.3 track rental but didn't know if I should post it since its 3 min. long but pretty cool. Any idea how to edit it to show just a few passes on it?

justin hover

I do get it lemons...I'm just going off of what I've read..and read..and read.. about everything/mods to do with 2:73s...for every 5 that said stall first...25 said gears first.

I have never driven with a stall, all I can do is read about them. I haven't read too many post on how 2:73 drivers were completely satisfied with a stall compared to gears....everyone just like me..said gears....They've all said they wish they would've gone with a bigger stall, or better gears. Keep in mind only 2:73 drivers

Too much **** to deal with in my case...Is it too loose around town, which I know I wouldn't like at all? would I want to go bigger? now should I get gears? now what gears to match the stall? ect.

I had to go with the pros and popularity....not one post of a dissapointed gear change.

I completly agree with you on the aspect of how a stall would yield better performance gains no doubt...that I'm not arguing at all.

Stall or gears is a great choice..I think the one buying them just has to reserch the **** outta them as much as possible to see what fits them..

I had 5 pages asking the question on this forum and 3 other sites before making my mind..You gave alot of helpful info and it all made sense..I could almost get a feeling of what driving with a stall was like...you almost had me sold on one...but without being able to drive a car with a stall...I had to go with popularity.....and I agree....you do know your ****...I'm learning quick ....I just got this car last year with alot of mods within the year....lots to learn..

lemons12

iTrader: (71)

I just want to point this out.. a lot of people giving you advice have never even drove in a car with a converter, let alone owned one. I even saw some that had neither. So, they were just repeating what they heard.. maybe from other people that had experience, maybe not..

Some were talking about performance gains of gears, I immediately knew they had never looked at data from a gear swap, with proof of claims and all info on before after runs.

I will say this.. on my next 100% DD street car it will have stock gears in it. So you can out me in on one that would not like the gear swap, along with my buddy in his 4000ptc 273 bolt on car. Why? Good mpg, stronger rear, still just as fast, etc etc..

Just because someone gives input on a subject doesn't automatically mean they know anything at all about the subject.

The research you did and I did are a lot different I believe.

You would have loved 342s and a nice 3200 converter way, way more than just those 373s.

joe77

How much does the stall hurt you in mpg in the city though, when i bought my car it had 3.73 installed, but they whine didnt know it at the time. Thinking of picking up a used rear with 3.42 in it, then perhaps looking for a converter, just cant afford anymore loss of mpg. Currently getting 22.3 mpg, with mainly highway.

lemons12

iTrader: (71)

Highway, or above 40-45 will stay exactly the same.. mostly under 40-45 will drop around 2mpg.
With the gear swap you will get same/maybe 1 better mpg in city worse on hwy.

justin hover

Only thing I wish I could've done lemons, was drive a car with a stall. Heres one question for you though. With my main driving done in the city wheres their so many lights and bumber to bumber action how would I enjoy a stall? Is their any sotp feeling accociated with this type of driving....how does a stall compare to gears in this situation? Their has to be certain perameters of where one can be better than another in different situations...I have this year to drive with the gears before I get a stall next year..I'm sure I'll find stalled car to drive by then...and if I don't....I know who I'll be asking..ALL OVER AGAIN tks for everything lemons I'll update when the tune, lcas,and shocks are in.

FirstYrLS1Z

iTrader: (4)

I posted earlier in this thread.
I'm an advocate of gears AND of convertors.
I'm old school (64),graduated from high school right into the original muscle car era. Back then you could get/order from the factory any gear you wanted(manufacturers didn't have to worry about CAFE-corporate average fuel economy,automatics were on the rare side and there were probably only 3 aftermarket torque convertor companies.Torque,by way of gears,ruled the streets as aftermarket torque convertor reliability is not what it is now. With a stick shift 4 speed,high torque big block,inadequate suspension and crap tires(bias ply and small),traction was difficult to come by. 'Cheater' slicks were available for street use but the largest available were only 7" wide. When a stick raced an auto on the street (light to light streetfighting),the stick didn't stand a chance,by the time the stick got traction,the auto was long gone. Aftermarket convertors were only seen in strip duty only cars.
Things HAVE changed,now you have no choice in rearend gears from the manufacturers and have a virtually unlimited choice of convertors.
You could change gears to increase the torque to the rearend and slightly drop your mpg,you could change your convertor to get into the upper part of the powerband quicker and still have lock-up to retain the good cruising mpg,or you could do both.
Whatever decision is made,it's entirely up to the owner.
What I miss about tight factory stalls is,lets say while travelling about at 30 mph,'blipping' the throttle and having the car INSTANTANEOUSLY jump,with a stall there's this short delay while it 'flashes'. The 'looseness' of a stall gave me an unexpected result because of living in snowy OHIO,the rear tires don't immediately start spinning as with a tight factory stall when sitting in snow and dropping it into drive.
My Z28 is stock in the horsepower department and changing from 3.23s'(consistent 13.70s') at 2 different strips to 4.56s' dropped the ET by .5(consistent 13.20s') at those 2 same strips. No other changes were made.
After running the 4.56s' now for 3 years,come spring I'll be putting probably 3.42s' in my OEM rearend and install a Yank SS3600. The 4.56s' were 'fun',mpg was surprisingly good,1st & 2nd were wicked,but time for a 'change'. I'll keep the 4.56s' in the spare rearend in case I wanna play(doesn't take a lot of time to swap complete rearends) or until I decide that 4.56s' are not to be used again and then try some other ratio. I work on rearends and have gearsets of 2.73,3.08,3.23,3.42,3.73, & 4.10.

DadsZ28

iTrader: (1)

You will get used to daily driving your car with a stall. A good tune helps with that also. Before I got mine I was worried about the same thing but it was easy to get used to. I have taken mine on a few long trips and you won't even know it's different from stock except when you hit it......normal driving just cruising it will feel slightly looser but it will not affect drivability. Hell I can't even remember what a stock one feels like!

lemons12

iTrader: (71)

No, the gears would make that more enjoyable to you.. However, I care how much my fun is at wot, and wot only. A stall imo always makes a more car more enjoyable o me over gears because I care about performance. How my car "feels" doesnt matter to me. If I have gears and someone else has a converter, if I get pulled on I will NOT be having fun, even If it felt more fun. This Is why I said 342 and a small converter for you.
One cool thing about a converter is with a decent exhaust you can throw someone a 3-4k rpm rev at any given time, just like pushing the clutch in on a manual.

On a stock stall and a larger stall... there is just as much delay when you floor it.. difference after market puts you closer to your powerband with no lag and a stock stall doesn't, there is no low rpm low power climbing.

Imo for a 100% street car with no track time 323s and a 3600 converter with good extensions and around a 2.2str is where its at. Better performance than just gears, better mpg everywhere, more fun imo, etc etc..