Street/HPDE
09-23-2013, 01:48 PM
#1
Street/HPDE Street/Strip doesn't fit me: I don't strip or drag.
Hard launches aren't my thing, but I do run Road America 2/yr.
I have 217k on it and am the original owner. Planning to put another 200k on it. I want to emphasize unsprung weight. I have 2" drop spindles; alum hubs; adj tubular a-arms; swivel cup weight jacks; Narrow FSL 6pots with 13" 2 pc rotors w/alum hats: rear coil-overs; LCA reloc; BMR trak pak; 3.5" alum DS; stock pbr discs for now.
My BW 9 bolt 3.27 is still holding up for now after the LS2/4L65e swap. Making 382 rwhp on Mustang dyno with plans for h/c/i, later. I'm on borrowed time! I would like a Wavetrac diff - anyone know what the pressure angle is? What are my options? Don't feel I need 35 splines with approx 500rwhp and mainly street use - don't want to go over 3.50 gears. Not a daily driver, but driven a lot, and is my cross country car.
I like putting a lot of side load into it. Thinking about tapered Timken bearings to help that. And I would like the lower shock mount to be extended 1"-1.5". My rear coil-overs need more piston travel from lowered stance. I would also like to put matching narrow FSL 4pots on the rear swap - need these to clear my factory 16" Formula wheels. I want to use these wheels for used R rubber 16x8's when I upgrade to 17's for street (last mod, yeah right).
Dana 44 is too rare to hope for, and not aware of torsen style diffs for it, if I could ever find one. S60 is just too big. 12 bolt needs 35 spline for Wavetrac. Am I left with an expensive 9" option?
Brian
Hard launches aren't my thing, but I do run Road America 2/yr.
I have 217k on it and am the original owner. Planning to put another 200k on it. I want to emphasize unsprung weight. I have 2" drop spindles; alum hubs; adj tubular a-arms; swivel cup weight jacks; Narrow FSL 6pots with 13" 2 pc rotors w/alum hats: rear coil-overs; LCA reloc; BMR trak pak; 3.5" alum DS; stock pbr discs for now.
My BW 9 bolt 3.27 is still holding up for now after the LS2/4L65e swap. Making 382 rwhp on Mustang dyno with plans for h/c/i, later. I'm on borrowed time! I would like a Wavetrac diff - anyone know what the pressure angle is? What are my options? Don't feel I need 35 splines with approx 500rwhp and mainly street use - don't want to go over 3.50 gears. Not a daily driver, but driven a lot, and is my cross country car.
I like putting a lot of side load into it. Thinking about tapered Timken bearings to help that. And I would like the lower shock mount to be extended 1"-1.5". My rear coil-overs need more piston travel from lowered stance. I would also like to put matching narrow FSL 4pots on the rear swap - need these to clear my factory 16" Formula wheels. I want to use these wheels for used R rubber 16x8's when I upgrade to 17's for street (last mod, yeah right).
Dana 44 is too rare to hope for, and not aware of torsen style diffs for it, if I could ever find one. S60 is just too big. 12 bolt needs 35 spline for Wavetrac. Am I left with an expensive 9" option?
Brian
09-25-2013, 01:24 PM
#3
No clue on the pressure angle question, but I can say what I'm in the middle of switching to:
Old: 3.73 with eaton posi and Richmond gears, OE style c-clip axles from summit, LS1 f-body rear brakes.
New: 3.42 with eaton/detroit truetrak with Motive gears, Moser 31-spline bolt-in axles with Ford-style bearings and retainers. LS1 f-body brakes.
Same use case: lots of Road race and sideload at RA.
Old: 3.73 with eaton posi and Richmond gears, OE style c-clip axles from summit, LS1 f-body rear brakes.
New: 3.42 with eaton/detroit truetrak with Motive gears, Moser 31-spline bolt-in axles with Ford-style bearings and retainers. LS1 f-body brakes.
Same use case: lots of Road race and sideload at RA.
Last edited by 1981TA; 09-25-2013 at 06:06 PM.
09-25-2013, 02:23 PM
#4
You can try to beef up the 10 bolt but will it last is the question, after spending 2k on it.
The MWC fabricated 9" rearend will be the best option for you in a aftermarket rearend. I can do the Wavetrac diff unit and use 31 spline axles, and with a good aluminum case like the Strange HD Pro thru-bolt setup we can get the weight down to within a few pounds of the oem 10 bolt.
The MWC 9" also has the abillity to accept our Watts link locator setup that reduces the weight of the Panhard bar setup and offers much better handling characteristics.
The cost will be a it higher, yes, but you will get a piece that does everything you want and more, and best yet peace of mind that the rearend will hold anything you plan to throw at it.
Give us a call and we can get you setup with the best parts and the guaranteed best prices. MWC is a proud dealer of Strange, Moser, Yukon Gear, and manufactures all our own suspension components with the highest quality.
The MWC fabricated 9" rearend will be the best option for you in a aftermarket rearend. I can do the Wavetrac diff unit and use 31 spline axles, and with a good aluminum case like the Strange HD Pro thru-bolt setup we can get the weight down to within a few pounds of the oem 10 bolt.
The MWC 9" also has the abillity to accept our Watts link locator setup that reduces the weight of the Panhard bar setup and offers much better handling characteristics.
The cost will be a it higher, yes, but you will get a piece that does everything you want and more, and best yet peace of mind that the rearend will hold anything you plan to throw at it.
Give us a call and we can get you setup with the best parts and the guaranteed best prices. MWC is a proud dealer of Strange, Moser, Yukon Gear, and manufactures all our own suspension components with the highest quality.
09-25-2013, 03:00 PM
#5
No clue on the pressure angle question, but I can say what I'm in the middle of switching to:
Old: 3.73 with eaton posi and Richmond gears, OE style c-clip axles from summit, LS1 f-body rear brakes.
New: 3.42 with eaton/detroit truetrak with Motive gears, 31-spline bolt-in axles with Ford-style bearings and retainers. LS1 f-body brakes.
Same use case: lots of Road race and sideload at RA.
Old: 3.73 with eaton posi and Richmond gears, OE style c-clip axles from summit, LS1 f-body rear brakes.
New: 3.42 with eaton/detroit truetrak with Motive gears, 31-spline bolt-in axles with Ford-style bearings and retainers. LS1 f-body brakes.
Same use case: lots of Road race and sideload at RA.
09-25-2013, 03:03 PM
#6
You can try to beef up the 10 bolt but will it last is the question, after spending 2k on it.
The MWC fabricated 9" rearend will be the best option for you in a aftermarket rearend. I can do the Wavetrac diff unit and use 31 spline axles, and with a good aluminum case like the Strange HD Pro thru-bolt setup we can get the weight down to within a few pounds of the oem 10 bolt.
The MWC 9" also has the abillity to accept our Watts link locator setup that reduces the weight of the Panhard bar setup and offers much better handling characteristics.
The cost will be a it higher, yes, but you will get a piece that does everything you want and more, and best yet peace of mind that the rearend will hold anything you plan to throw at it.
Give us a call and we can get you setup with the best parts and the guaranteed best prices. MWC is a proud dealer of Strange, Moser, Yukon Gear, and manufactures all our own suspension components with the highest quality.
The MWC fabricated 9" rearend will be the best option for you in a aftermarket rearend. I can do the Wavetrac diff unit and use 31 spline axles, and with a good aluminum case like the Strange HD Pro thru-bolt setup we can get the weight down to within a few pounds of the oem 10 bolt.
The MWC 9" also has the abillity to accept our Watts link locator setup that reduces the weight of the Panhard bar setup and offers much better handling characteristics.
The cost will be a it higher, yes, but you will get a piece that does everything you want and more, and best yet peace of mind that the rearend will hold anything you plan to throw at it.
Give us a call and we can get you setup with the best parts and the guaranteed best prices. MWC is a proud dealer of Strange, Moser, Yukon Gear, and manufactures all our own suspension components with the highest quality.
09-25-2013, 08:57 PM
#7
Thanks, yes on the tapered bearings. I think I've seen your car at RA. You've been to the MFBA HPDEs right? I forget the guy's name, but one of the instructors, with a background as an engineer at GM, suggested the gear ratio change after seeing the car on the track, and hearing us describe the setup. Our big changes for next year are bigger calipers (now 6-piston Wilwoods), front brake ducts and revising the rear end.
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09-26-2013, 12:42 AM
#8
Yes, MFBA. Missed in '12 as body & paint took too much time and money. But I'm satisfied with result. Showed up this Spring with new paint, but wasn't on track. Around 3.45 gear is great.
Been coming here for decades. My little brother raced here in AMA and imported the first Aprilla 250cc works bike in North America as a team owner in '94. Drove him out to Laguna Seca that Sept in the Formula as he got one of the at large bids for the FIMA race. That was a cool experience - and Cannery Row just lined with bikes. My little bro in a World Grand Prix!
The Wilwood Narrow FSL 6pots are great! To keep wight down, I run 13 x 1.1 curved vanes with alum hats (see mock-up pics). Up the road, Coleman had the right rotors to fit the Wilwood hats. Long ARP wheel studs in the alum hubs. The bridge bolts are great for pad swaps at the track! I'm looking to match those with 4 pots and 12 x 1 on the new rear. No need for huge rotors and huge wheels. Everyone has to make choices and I've chosen to stick with unsprung weight as my build theme.
Hope I can get the rear to the same point of satisfaction.
Been coming here for decades. My little brother raced here in AMA and imported the first Aprilla 250cc works bike in North America as a team owner in '94. Drove him out to Laguna Seca that Sept in the Formula as he got one of the at large bids for the FIMA race. That was a cool experience - and Cannery Row just lined with bikes. My little bro in a World Grand Prix!
The Wilwood Narrow FSL 6pots are great! To keep wight down, I run 13 x 1.1 curved vanes with alum hats (see mock-up pics). Up the road, Coleman had the right rotors to fit the Wilwood hats. Long ARP wheel studs in the alum hubs. The bridge bolts are great for pad swaps at the track! I'm looking to match those with 4 pots and 12 x 1 on the new rear. No need for huge rotors and huge wheels. Everyone has to make choices and I've chosen to stick with unsprung weight as my build theme.
Hope I can get the rear to the same point of satisfaction.
09-26-2013, 01:09 PM
#9
Wow. Very nice. The other guy who drives my, um... "Paint deprived" car is actually a former bike road racer and would be drooling over a chance to race like your brother. I bet it was an absolute blast. He and his brother scored a 500 cc 2-stroke 4-cyl race bike back in the 80s and he's now restoring it to race readiness. It should be a beast on the track.
The brakes look good. I had wilwood Dynalite 4s on the front, but cooked them at the last MFBA event. They're made for .81" wide rotors and need rebuilds (10 bucks at wilwood), but otherwise ok. I bought a set of EBC yellow pads for them, which now sitting on a shelf in my garage. They're all looking for a new home
With the addition of the ducts, directional HD rotors and 6 pots, the ol' car should be able to hold up. Like you, I'm on a quest to unload unsprung weight. Switching from the stock setup (steel wheels, iron everything else) to the gta wheels and wilwood setup saved me 25 pounds on each front corner. Rear dropped only marginally, maybe 1 or 2 pounds tops. The increased rotor size offset the savings from going to an aluminum caliper, compared to iron.
The brakes look good. I had wilwood Dynalite 4s on the front, but cooked them at the last MFBA event. They're made for .81" wide rotors and need rebuilds (10 bucks at wilwood), but otherwise ok. I bought a set of EBC yellow pads for them, which now sitting on a shelf in my garage. They're all looking for a new home
With the addition of the ducts, directional HD rotors and 6 pots, the ol' car should be able to hold up. Like you, I'm on a quest to unload unsprung weight. Switching from the stock setup (steel wheels, iron everything else) to the gta wheels and wilwood setup saved me 25 pounds on each front corner. Rear dropped only marginally, maybe 1 or 2 pounds tops. The increased rotor size offset the savings from going to an aluminum caliper, compared to iron.
Last edited by 1981TA; 09-27-2013 at 07:43 AM.
09-28-2013, 10:54 AM
#10
yeah, don't know if I'll have any weight savings at all in the back - probably end up adding. But that's not a bad place to add if strength is coming with it. I am considering deleting the parking brake as I am A4. Have #200 coil-overs in back and don't want to re-purchase because of increased weight. I can delete the spring perches, though.
MWC suggested the 9" 31 spline above. Why not 33 spline with 9" : http://www.moserengineering.com/diff...6309179wk.html
Is there any advantage in strength versus weight difference from 31 --> 33? The 9" 31 spline is on sale, though ($180 difference). If I move off of 31, maybe I should just go to 35, then the 12 bolt comes back into play. I do think that I could find a 12 bolt housing cheaper/easier than 9" aluminum center.
For my two track events/year, I can't justify the expense of that. I'm not trying to be competitive @ RA. I'm just there to learn car control and have fun. And MWC has a point with the Watts. I could do that incrementally on the 12, and not have to re-purchase torque arm (have the BMR trac pak) or DS. Hmmm....I have till Feb to decide.
MWC suggested the 9" 31 spline above. Why not 33 spline with 9" : http://www.moserengineering.com/diff...6309179wk.html
Is there any advantage in strength versus weight difference from 31 --> 33? The 9" 31 spline is on sale, though ($180 difference). If I move off of 31, maybe I should just go to 35, then the 12 bolt comes back into play. I do think that I could find a 12 bolt housing cheaper/easier than 9" aluminum center.
For my two track events/year, I can't justify the expense of that. I'm not trying to be competitive @ RA. I'm just there to learn car control and have fun. And MWC has a point with the Watts. I could do that incrementally on the 12, and not have to re-purchase torque arm (have the BMR trac pak) or DS. Hmmm....I have till Feb to decide.
09-30-2013, 10:15 AM
#11
Parking brake delete will be no problem, and we can accommodate the coil-over setup with our transverse shock mount setup easily. Getting rid of the spring perches is no issue, but keep in mind the left perch is the same bracket as the Panhard bar uses. If you delete this bracket you are required to use the Watts link setup to keep the rearend located. Our spring perches do not weigh as much as other 9" rearends you see so if the Watts link is not in the picture right now the weight penalty isn't that bad.
The 31 spline axles are usually plenty for what you are doing and have a much better option of other diff units if need be. The 33 spline is larger and slightly stronger axle, yes, but the 33 spline axle is only available in a spool or the Wavetrac diff.
As far as the torque arm is concerned the MWC setup will let the suspension be free of bind compared to what you have, and the weight will be much less.
The MWC fabricated 9" rearend package if equipped with an aluminum center section will be less weight than any other rearend on the market and will last the life of the car.
The 31 spline axles are usually plenty for what you are doing and have a much better option of other diff units if need be. The 33 spline is larger and slightly stronger axle, yes, but the 33 spline axle is only available in a spool or the Wavetrac diff.
As far as the torque arm is concerned the MWC setup will let the suspension be free of bind compared to what you have, and the weight will be much less.
The MWC fabricated 9" rearend package if equipped with an aluminum center section will be less weight than any other rearend on the market and will last the life of the car.