^watch out man! Someone from Strange may send you a private message. I received a pm from that moron Martin a couple days ago. He was sayin crap like I shouldn't go around bad mouthin them or any individual, also was denying the FACT that I dealt with him. ********!!!!

 

What Strange has done, they have done to themselves. I speak the truth. I tried to resolve my issues in a business like, gentlemanly way, but they wouldn't have it that way. I had to send a certified letter, return receipt to Henry Strange, President just to get their attention. I had months of down time, in addition to many hundreds of $$$ out of my pocket to fix their screw ups. One of the classics they tried to pull was saying that the Moser housings are so poorly put together nothing is plumb, nothing could be further from the truth.It was bad enough that they put the center section together so poorly in the first place, but to major *** it up the second go round was unconscionable. ******** they are.

 

Sorry to hear about your problems. My dealings with Strange have been nothing but good. It did take about 6 weeks to receive my 12-bolt but I called them directly for updates and was given accurate information. They even called when it was ready so I could arrange the freight company to pick it up. My only real complaint is the ABS light is stuck on, but otherwise it's been perfect and very quiet.

 

I'm not trying to bash you or anything but if you had all the knowledge of where the castings came from you would know why both suppliers have issues.


Does anyone remember the old K.T.R.E. shop? Still around but under a different name and guess who casts both S60's and 12 bolt centers? DTS West thats who. Strange and Moser press in their own tubes but the centers are the same. I did a write up about why customers have issues after some track time, do a search I'm sure it some where around here.

 

As bad as these stories are, for every Strange horror story I've read a dozen more about Moser. Seems like a gamble either way.

 

Hey DrkPhx do you have screw in studs on your axles? They can creat an additional electrical field that the ABS sensor picks up and throws the whole system out of kilter.

 

It boggles my mind.

Manufacturers of axle assemblies for these cars offer "bolt in" setups that are supposed to be ready to go. However, in addition to the small truckload of money one must dish out for a supposed ready-to-go axle, one must spend the time to check the gear setup or pay to have someone check it. It should be ready to go or marketed as a rear axle kit, not a bolt-in assembly. There should be no in between.

As far as howling and/or noise, I fully understand how aftermarket (stronger) torque arms, poly bushings & poly mount will transmit more noise than the flimsy OEM sheet metal/rubber setup. However it seems odd to me that a setup would make no noise after "break-in" but howl after a few dragstrip passes----and people write that off as normal. It sure seems to me this indicates a change in the integrity of the rear end.

These are some of the main reasons I am limping by on a patched-up 10 bolt. Neither manufacturer seems able to consistently deliver a solid setup without the customer having to redo something. I'm not saying a 12 bolt should have the strength and reliability of a Spicer D40 (40,000 pound commercial duty drive axle), but damn. Even S60s are coming up with noise after seeing the strip with stickies.

When I go ahead I am half ready to get an empty housing and build my own. It seems ironic to me that I would have better confidence in a home-built axle assembly than one that is supposed to be ready to go.

 

Keep in perspective, Strange and Moser produces 1000's of these units and they have competent techs putting these things together. Not every component is built by the manufacture, there is room for error. Gear noise, say Moser or Strange installs a faulty gearset that was not properly treated from Richmond...no matter how good the install, the gears can have problems...whine etc.

Building your own rear end will not prove any better results in my opinion. You'll be purchasing the components from these manufactures putting them together just as they do and setting up gears just as they do also...you don't build rear-ends everyday as they do...which they should be very skilled at setting them up...I'd go as far as saying if you built 1000 units, you'd be very skilled as well.

Between Moser, Ford, Dana and Strange components...1000's are built everyday. Keep in perspective that you are only hearing about a few guys having problems...most others are completly fine. This conversation as I mentioned earlier is turning nothing more then into a bandwagoning complain section. Of course, only the guys having problems complain...there are 1000's that have nothing wrong.

Scott, aftermarket products can have design flaws....this is typical in the industry. I am familar with some of the rear-end suppliers but not with their QC. QC is certainly not limited to rear-ends. Heck, look at the aftermarket fiberglass body-replacment companies... Many companies do not have the facilities or funds to have quality control where only there is a say a 1% failure rate of tolances or specs. Sometimes there are problems...they typically get the attention that is necessary to rectify the situation. Aftermarket components generally are better then OEM when it comes to specific design intent. OEM generalizes for a variety of road situations and is certainly not optimized to meet specific criteria.

 

I worked on the OEM side at AAM for the last 7 years and I have seen many issues with quality and assembly. I was a jobsetter on a carrier job cutting the center section for the 8.6 axle so I have a lot of knowledge of iron and it's properties. Aftermarket suppliers don't care about gear noise, they only care about profit margins.

 

I definitly hear what you're saying. Companies do have to weigh performance/cost as well as a multitude of other considerations. It would be great to have flawless work from many of them...this would of course come at a price to the consumer then...most would complain about cost at that point. Quality and workmanship costs don't come cheap. If you created a 100% flawless product that you had 100% control over producing all parts in-house and price wasn't a concideration...only quality, then you would be underdcut by many others who don't have the quality but offer a more mass-produced product that may have limitations. China products come to mind on this one...

Look at our products we have! Our high-ended wheels...many complain that they can purchase a set of 700.00 economy wheels and attempt to compare them to our wheels...there is no comparison. Actually comparisons end with they are round and similar sized.

Quality and performance in high-end products are in no way the same as an economy built wheel. Many of those economy weld customers feel they have the best wheels out there and are a way better "value" then our products...some probably don't realize that even Weld produces high-end wheels that blow away their prostar/draglite combos...they will end up spending quite a bit more money with those of course.

Due to our market, we are certainly more limited to higher-end customers who want the best and expect quality...which we provide. We are by no means targeting the Wall-Mart shopper, our customers are like the Neiman Marcus customers who demand the best.

I do feel Strange Engineering products for the most part are of very good quality...is there better, certainly there can be. I haven't had issues that were problematic...if we had problems, certainly I would pull the plug on carrying their products. Could their be problems...certainly! But I would hope that they were re-solvable with us and our clients. To date, they still are the only company we will work with designing setups in conjuction with our Bogart wheels...many of their designs are married so well with our products.

 

DTS, Mark Williams, and Moser housings look the same (except where the vent is on the Moser), but the strange 12-bolt has the oem style torque arm bolt setup and that non stock hole for 3/channel abs, along with smaller axle tubes. The others have 4 bolts for the torque arm and look the same except for the vent location on Moser's piece.

So, does DTS cast the strange 12-bolt to strange's specs? It's very different than the others.

 

SJM, you can try to sugar coat the Strange customer service however you wish, but it still sucks. When there is a problem with a product or should I say multiple problems, it needs to be addressed. I maintain that anyone purchasing a Strange product is doing so at their own peril, because odds are that if an issue arises they will not be there to help resolve the issue.

 

I'm not saying this is the case with you bigdsz, but some customers are a royal pain-in-the-*** to deal with. What one might read in a thread they created is that they were perfect gentlemen, and totally reasonable, yet the reality can be quite different. That's why you really need to hear both sides of the story. Some customers, because they're shelling-out a couple grand plus, feel that absolute perfection is to be expected, yet absolute perfection doesn't exist. When a rearend might be within acceptable tolerances, this isn't good enough for these perfectionists, so they get involved in a pissing match and complain that the company hadn't kissed their asses when the customer was being unreasonable all along. Then they turn around and post a thread about how ****-poor the company is.

If Strange was as bad as this thread is indicating, it's unlikely you'd find any happy customers at all, which isn't the case.

 

I am not sugar coating anything regarding their customer service. We as a company have not had any problems with their QC. We've setup quite a few customers with their products. I feel with our history, a generalized statement would be that we do not have any problems their services nor their quality control. Of course, on occassion, a part was missing or tracking numbers not correctly setup or other small things that was rectified...but these are very minor concerns.

Will there be issues, sure there can be, but I'd hope that they will back their products up with support. Some folks can be a bit demanding and asking for the world when they aren't entitled to it...are they wrong, not in their mind...

I am not trying to turn any persons opinion nor stating they are incorrect in how they feel. I am stating that no company produces 100% perfect products. Futhermore, when a company is relying on other manufactures for components which are used additional problems can exsist.

I'm surprized that since gear noise is the most common problem, why folks aren't also directing their concerns to the quality of the manufacture of the gears...which is the culprit? Incorrectly setup gears, casting not machined correctly or gears not built to spec??? You see this all the time, "don't purchase (brand name gears), we installed them on a rear-end and now the gears are noisy...) What came first, the chicken or the egg?

As stated above, Moser has possible opportunities regarding their torque arm mounting and the use of aftermarket torque arms.

I also stated that for each one of these horror stories which certainly can be qualified by the user, there are 1000 sucess stories....i'm not just referring to Strange, I'm referring to a generalized population of products.

The original poster was voicing his experience thus far with Strange as a company...which he certainly is entitled to. The only concern I'd have is in reality, his services do not appear to be completed and Strange did seem as they were still addressing them. They do need to be given the oportunity to finish helping the customer. This doesn't mean that it has to happen overnight or they are responsible for shipping something overnight or should be reimbursed monitarily or given free stuff for his troubles(not that he was asking that...i'm giving generalized comments that some may be asking for) etc etc...

Voicing opinions pointing his negative feelings does not help his case...it does nothing but possibly make him deemed as a possible unreasonable customer who is asking for resolution on one hand but creating problems on the other with posting negative feedback.

 

SJM,

myself as a consumer would not expect any company to be absolutely perfect. i understand what you're saying about quality control. it's impossible for these little companies (compared to microsoft, gm, wal-mart) to have <1% errors since they just don't have the means and money. no one is complaining that mistakes happen. they just happen far too often. there are dozens, maybe hundreds of complaints on ls1tech alone and we are just a tiny internet community.

i feel that for 2,000+ dollars, we should not have to worry about gear whine. what i mean is we shouldn't expect it. nearly everyone that orders a rear fears a problem. we shouldn't expect a problem and be relieved in the occurrance that there isn't one. we should expect no problems and be upset in the occurrance there is one. i'm scared of my rear. i haven't taken my car to the track yet but if/when i do, it will see street tires. i'm scared of drags on a 10-bolt. i don't want the 10-bolt to break! not just because of the money for the 12-bolt but because it's a nice, quiet ride despite the occasional bang from the posi when you blip the throttle.

if there was a company that offered the performance and strength of a 12-bolt with the quietness and comfort of an OEM 10-bolt, i think i'd buy one just to give them money because damn it, they deserve it! i feel that moser and strange should have this reputation, but they don't.

 

wow. i wanteda strange d60 until reading this....if they want my business, i better have a written garuntee of a few things and a hell of a lot LOWER PRICE for such compromised quality. $2300+ and you get all these problems???? NO THANKS.

 

it's with moser, too. you just don't get the quality for the price. you can't blame them for occassional slip-ups; it happens; but it happens far too often. sad thing is, those 2 companies are our only option.

strange seems to have a stronger rear but takes 2 months to get.

moser can have the rear to your door in days but seem to break more often (maybe because they're bought more?)

there's a lot of negatives. i wish GM had an alternative OEM rear that worked as a bolt-on and is stronger than a 10-bolt. going aftermarket is so hard sometimes...

 

here is my other option...ill baby it and sacrifice a few tenths(if i even see a track as much) rather than bust $2300+ of my hard earned cash on some shitty rear that the company that builds them loses interest as soon as my "check clears" and my rear is out of their doors.

 

Stuff like this is exactly why I'd rather build anything that goes in my car. I have the friends and resources to build just about anything that goes in my car.

I'd rather build it and have a few bugs to work out than pay $2000 plus and have to deal with fighting with someone to get it fixed and also having to deal with shipping it back and forth.

 

My stock 10 bolt whined with the stock 3:42s. Most of the Strange failures that I know of (several guys in my club) were the Eaton posi. Maybe with the new True Trac out it'll be a lil more stout. I haven't heard of many 12 bolt failures with a spool.