My experience w/ Strange Engineering
06-28-2006, 11:18 AM
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My experience w/ Strange Engineering I recently (depending on how you look at it) purchased a Strange Dana S60 w/ 4.10's for my car. My experience has not been good, and it appears that it is not yet over. I hate to be negative about this, but I think everyone should be aware.
When I was doing my research, I was constantly pointed towards Strange and away from Moser. I was told to expect 2-3 weeks to get a Strange rear end but that the quality would be worth the wait. So, not being in a big rush, I went with Strange.
On 4/25/06 I placed my order for the rear. They asked me to ship them some backing plates for the new rear so they could build it. My installer, Jason with Texas Drivetrain Performance, shipped them a pair of 4-channel backing plates. I have a 3-channel ABS, but I just didn't want the car down for a month while I waited, and Jason didn't have any 3-channel backing plates, so I figured, "What the heck?"
About two weeks later, I get a call from Strange, and they say, "We received some backing plates from you, and we wanted to know what they were for." I told them that Jason has shipped them and said that there should be an RMA number (which Strange had given me when I placed the order) written on the box. The guy said, "Oh, I see it," and told me the rear end would be done in a week.
About two weeks later Jason said that he had not yet received the part. I called Strange to check the status on the rear. They said that it was done and shipping out the same day. This was a Tuesday. I asked when we could expect to have it, and they said that Friday. So, I planned with Jason to install the part the following Friday giving them a week of leeway.
When the part still had not arrived the Monday before we planned to install it, I called Strange again. They then told me that the part had not yet been started. I asked to speak to a manager and asked him how, exactly, it can be finished one day, and a week later it's not started. After much complaining, he said that he could get it moved to the front of the line, shipped on Tuesday, and have it arrive on Friday for installation. I was happy.
The following day (Tuesday), someone calls me from Strange and says, "We only received one backing plate." I told him that they had called several weeks earlier asking what the backing plates were for. It seems like they would have mentioned the fact that there was only one. The guy said, "Well, I was actually the one who called you, and I hadn't looked in the box yet." I said, "Then how did you know it had backing plates in it? He sort of "Uhh, uhh"ed for a sec, and that was the end of that conversation.
I spoke to a manager who offered to sell me a backing plate for $100. I let him know that he wasn't getting another dime from me and that my business would be with Moser if it weren't for the fact that Jason was now out a backing plate. After a lot of stupidity, excuses, and finger pointing over the next three days, they said they would give me a backing plate. Gee, thanks.
So, several weeks late (and also too late for the install date, which cost me a day of vacation), I get the rear end. We get it installed without issue and fill her up with fluid. Guess what? The gears are howling like crazy. There's also a sound that is similar to grinding that occurs in the rear end sometimes as well. In short, the better assembly from Strange that I've heard about seems to have been just a rumor.
Tonight I'm going back to Fort Worth to have Jason take another look at the rear end. We're going to drain it, pull the cover, and see what's up. I'll update the thread here with what we find and how Strange responds (assuming we have to get in touch with them). I am still willing to let them redeem themselves, but I'm kinda pissed currently.
When I was doing my research, I was constantly pointed towards Strange and away from Moser. I was told to expect 2-3 weeks to get a Strange rear end but that the quality would be worth the wait. So, not being in a big rush, I went with Strange.
On 4/25/06 I placed my order for the rear. They asked me to ship them some backing plates for the new rear so they could build it. My installer, Jason with Texas Drivetrain Performance, shipped them a pair of 4-channel backing plates. I have a 3-channel ABS, but I just didn't want the car down for a month while I waited, and Jason didn't have any 3-channel backing plates, so I figured, "What the heck?"
About two weeks later, I get a call from Strange, and they say, "We received some backing plates from you, and we wanted to know what they were for." I told them that Jason has shipped them and said that there should be an RMA number (which Strange had given me when I placed the order) written on the box. The guy said, "Oh, I see it," and told me the rear end would be done in a week.
About two weeks later Jason said that he had not yet received the part. I called Strange to check the status on the rear. They said that it was done and shipping out the same day. This was a Tuesday. I asked when we could expect to have it, and they said that Friday. So, I planned with Jason to install the part the following Friday giving them a week of leeway.
When the part still had not arrived the Monday before we planned to install it, I called Strange again. They then told me that the part had not yet been started. I asked to speak to a manager and asked him how, exactly, it can be finished one day, and a week later it's not started. After much complaining, he said that he could get it moved to the front of the line, shipped on Tuesday, and have it arrive on Friday for installation. I was happy.
The following day (Tuesday), someone calls me from Strange and says, "We only received one backing plate." I told him that they had called several weeks earlier asking what the backing plates were for. It seems like they would have mentioned the fact that there was only one. The guy said, "Well, I was actually the one who called you, and I hadn't looked in the box yet." I said, "Then how did you know it had backing plates in it? He sort of "Uhh, uhh"ed for a sec, and that was the end of that conversation.
I spoke to a manager who offered to sell me a backing plate for $100. I let him know that he wasn't getting another dime from me and that my business would be with Moser if it weren't for the fact that Jason was now out a backing plate. After a lot of stupidity, excuses, and finger pointing over the next three days, they said they would give me a backing plate. Gee, thanks.
So, several weeks late (and also too late for the install date, which cost me a day of vacation), I get the rear end. We get it installed without issue and fill her up with fluid. Guess what? The gears are howling like crazy. There's also a sound that is similar to grinding that occurs in the rear end sometimes as well. In short, the better assembly from Strange that I've heard about seems to have been just a rumor.
Tonight I'm going back to Fort Worth to have Jason take another look at the rear end. We're going to drain it, pull the cover, and see what's up. I'll update the thread here with what we find and how Strange responds (assuming we have to get in touch with them). I am still willing to let them redeem themselves, but I'm kinda pissed currently.
06-28-2006, 06:58 PM
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let me guess, you had the pleasure of speaking with either that dumbass Martin or that disgusting **** Tracy!
I fuking hate that **** *** company with a passion!
https://ls1tech.com/forums/gears-axles/386423-strange-12-bolt-guys-need-your-help.html
read through this thread, and just read what I went through!!
I fuking hate that **** *** company with a passion!
https://ls1tech.com/forums/gears-axles/386423-strange-12-bolt-guys-need-your-help.html
read through this thread, and just read what I went through!!
Gota love my 12 bolt
06-28-2006, 11:06 PM
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Well, I had Jason crack it open tonight, and we couldn't find anything wrong with it. The gear oil was a bit dirty, but the wear pattern on the gears looked good, and there wasn't any metal in the housing. We re-greased the axle bearings and filled her back up with thicker fluid. It seems that the rear is howling even more now.
I guess I'm going to call Strange and ask them what they're going to do about it and what they would like us to try. Since Jason seems to think that the rear was assembled properly, but I'm not going to let Strange off the hook entirely.
I guess I'm going to call Strange and ask them what they're going to do about it and what they would like us to try. Since Jason seems to think that the rear was assembled properly, but I'm not going to let Strange off the hook entirely.
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06-29-2006, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by INMY01TA
If you take it to the track and beat on it its gonna howl anyway. My Strange 12 bolt w/4:11s was quiet at 1st but after several trips to the track howls pretty loud. It wont stay quiet forever. I waited two months for mine. Seems to be the norm.
thats not true. i had a strange 12 bolt with 4:30 gears set up by someone other than stange, and it was dead quiet after many hard launches in a M6 with 28x10.50 et drags. this was on and off the bottle.
06-29-2006, 01:40 PM
#9
I think every company can have opportunities with their products. This is especially true when products are not one-off designs or punched out repeatedly on a machine. The more hands-on product design the more you do have room for human error.
I do believe that Strange Engineering is a reputable company to work with. In fact so much that their products to date are the only ones we carry aside from the parts we manufacture and/or design.
One thing to consider is that for the very few problems that are seen, the majority are care-free. As with most folks, you mainly hear about horror stories, not success stories. Rear-end noise can be user-dependent. Depending on the setup as well as customer tolerances one setup may be quite to one person but noisy to another.
Not everyone is an engineer or an expert in the products they carry. Sales reps or representatives may have general knowledge which for the most part can be helpful. Problems do occur, things happen; this is a reality that both the consumer and business must deal with on an individual process.
Certainly when something goes wrong, depending on the situation, sometimes it can be covered by the manufacture under warranty, other times not. This is determined typically by the manufacture or professional representative upon inspection.
I do believe that Strange Engineering is a reputable company to work with. In fact so much that their products to date are the only ones we carry aside from the parts we manufacture and/or design.
One thing to consider is that for the very few problems that are seen, the majority are care-free. As with most folks, you mainly hear about horror stories, not success stories. Rear-end noise can be user-dependent. Depending on the setup as well as customer tolerances one setup may be quite to one person but noisy to another.
Not everyone is an engineer or an expert in the products they carry. Sales reps or representatives may have general knowledge which for the most part can be helpful. Problems do occur, things happen; this is a reality that both the consumer and business must deal with on an individual process.
Certainly when something goes wrong, depending on the situation, sometimes it can be covered by the manufacture under warranty, other times not. This is determined typically by the manufacture or professional representative upon inspection.
06-30-2006, 12:58 AM
#11
Originally Posted by wws699
I'll be ordering my rear from Moser in short order..........
The writer of this post obviously had a bad experience with their new rear end. Probably jumping the gun posting on results before everything is verified and/or corrected...if the setup was verified locally as correct gear pattern as well as everything else within spec by a professional, then what can the manufacture do? Should they take it back, at the customers request they may, but who pays for shipping? Should the manufacture pay for shipping on a component that was deemed correct by a non-partisan professional? I can't answer that. This is something may need individual attention.
Once again, noise is subjective, there are also other considerations of noise issues…suspension setup can greatly amplify noise. Different gear sets in themselves …are they correctly matched or defective. Probably the fastest solution and certainly the least expensive vs. shipment would be replacing the gears. The problem lies with the fact that if they were verified to be ok from Jason, then what solution is next?
I know you mentioned initially that you aren’t one to be negative, but a customer threatening to bad-mouth a product or create a big debate I’d imagine would make the manufacturer even less willing to help a customer. I’d imagine Strange reps do read these boards. If I was a sales rep and was called out as stupid or incompetent, I certainly wouldn’t feel the demand to jump to a solution, would you? It certainly doesn't help Jason who seems to be working as well with Strange on a solution.
I hope your problem is resolve either way and sincerely wish you luck. You've got a vendor that is working with you and is competent and willing to assist you. I state this all the time, low price is nice sometimes, but having a vendor that stands behind you and helps you through a situation is worth its weight in gold.
06-30-2006, 09:09 AM
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I respect what you said, but I'd like to answer to some of it...
I was initially posting of the woes Strange gave me when trying to get the piece shipped. Those were completed. The gears howling is just another part, and I'm posting updates, so the entirety of the story, good or bad, will be posted.
This part isn't my problem. I bought a rear end from them, and it's got an issue. Whether or not that issue can be diagnosed by me, my installer, or them is their problem. The fact remains that there is an issue and it is their responsibility to make it right. Hopefully they will make good on this, but I have some other issues with the rear end that need to be resolved before I bring this to their attention.
It will be up to them what we do. They will have to get it fixed, and they will have to do whatever they deem necessary. I will not incur any further expense for a failure of their product, though, so if shipping it back is their decision, it is also their cost.
It was not deemed "correct." Jason simply could not diagnose the cause of the gear noise. Perhaps it was assembled correctly but there is something wrong with one of the components itself.
I don't think there is any arguing that these gears are howling.
I never threatened them. I have not made mention to anyone at Strange of this thread before or after it was started. I am relaying my experiences so far both to relieve my anger a bit and to warn others of the problems I have had. There may be a few comments of my disappointment, but I'd say that what I posted is mostly factual thusfar.
Originally Posted by SJM Manufacturing Inc
The writer of this post obviously had a bad experience with their new rear end. Probably jumping the gun posting on results before everything is verified and/or corrected...
Originally Posted by SJM Manufacturing Inc
if the setup was verified locally as correct gear pattern as well as everything else within spec by a professional, then what can the manufacture do?
Originally Posted by SJM Manufacturing Inc
Should they take it back, at the customers request they may, but who pays for shipping?
Originally Posted by SJM Manufacturing Inc
Should the manufacture pay for shipping on a component that was deemed correct by a non-partisan professional?
Originally Posted by SJM Manufacturing Inc
Once again, noise is subjective, there are also other considerations of noise issues…suspension setup can greatly amplify noise.
Originally Posted by SJM Manufacturing Inc
I know you mentioned initially that you aren’t one to be negative, but a customer threatening to bad-mouth a product or create a big debate I’d imagine would make the manufacturer even less willing to help a customer. I’d imagine Strange reps do read these boards. If I was a sales rep and was called out as stupid or incompetent, I certainly wouldn’t feel the demand to jump to a solution, would you? It certainly doesn't help Jason who seems to be working as well with Strange on a solution.
06-30-2006, 10:04 AM
#13
I'm with you on this, hopefully this is resolved. Regarding completing the rear-end for you...which was a disappointment from the start for you. Keep in mind, sometimes things happen that are out of the manufactures control. People get sick, vacation days, parts originally thought to be in stock for the setup was found to have grown legs and walked etc etc.
I see this happen with vendors as well. Sometimes a manufacture states to the vendor, a component will ship on X day, though something happened and it was delayed. Then you see the customer state bad things about a vendor having the customer think the vendor lied to them or deceived them, which was certainly not the case.
I recently had a set of wheels that we shipped out that were VERY VERY late. It was to be only a month to build the wheels but it took WAY longer. Needless to say, I was quite upset myself for letting down a customer and having him wait longer then I originally quoted him. Parts coming back from heat-treat were damaged, so shells had to be re-formed and the process essentially started over again. It was one thing after another, the best I could do is keep the customer informed of the process and he hold on as we are working on the part to completion.
I was happy that the customer was very understanding and did realize things happen. Hopefully the customer will be happy in the end and continue to support the products that he invested in. Certainly if he had concerns or issues with our products, we back them up 100%. I feel he has been satisfied with the quality of the work thus far.
If concerns are going to be viewed, I feel issues are better left off the boards until there is a resolution. It gives the vendor or manufacture an opportunity to make things right. At that point, voicing feelings and results would probably be more suitable.
I know this is a place to discuss concerns and topics of choice, but sometimes I feel it can goes a bit too far and badmouthing or the bandwagon starts. This is not directed towards you, just a general statement.
At any event, have a great day; things will work out in the end.
:-)
I see this happen with vendors as well. Sometimes a manufacture states to the vendor, a component will ship on X day, though something happened and it was delayed. Then you see the customer state bad things about a vendor having the customer think the vendor lied to them or deceived them, which was certainly not the case.
I recently had a set of wheels that we shipped out that were VERY VERY late. It was to be only a month to build the wheels but it took WAY longer. Needless to say, I was quite upset myself for letting down a customer and having him wait longer then I originally quoted him. Parts coming back from heat-treat were damaged, so shells had to be re-formed and the process essentially started over again. It was one thing after another, the best I could do is keep the customer informed of the process and he hold on as we are working on the part to completion.
I was happy that the customer was very understanding and did realize things happen. Hopefully the customer will be happy in the end and continue to support the products that he invested in. Certainly if he had concerns or issues with our products, we back them up 100%. I feel he has been satisfied with the quality of the work thus far.
If concerns are going to be viewed, I feel issues are better left off the boards until there is a resolution. It gives the vendor or manufacture an opportunity to make things right. At that point, voicing feelings and results would probably be more suitable.
I know this is a place to discuss concerns and topics of choice, but sometimes I feel it can goes a bit too far and badmouthing or the bandwagon starts. This is not directed towards you, just a general statement.
At any event, have a great day; things will work out in the end.
:-)
06-30-2006, 10:10 AM
#14
O btw, I forgot to mention to you...you mentioned you were warned to stay away from Moser from the beginning, that is why you choose Strange.
It was because of a few folks who may have had a bad experience with Moser obviously. This is what I am referring to, typically you only hear the bad things, not the good. Think of how many components both manufactures have sold even in the past 5 years. Its expected to have a few problems with compnoents down the road.
Human error comes into play and things can get messed up or mistakes happened. You could have purchased another manufactures rear-end and had similar results. Nothing is 100% guarenteed to be flawless, sometimes things happen.
It was because of a few folks who may have had a bad experience with Moser obviously. This is what I am referring to, typically you only hear the bad things, not the good. Think of how many components both manufactures have sold even in the past 5 years. Its expected to have a few problems with compnoents down the road.
Human error comes into play and things can get messed up or mistakes happened. You could have purchased another manufactures rear-end and had similar results. Nothing is 100% guarenteed to be flawless, sometimes things happen.
06-30-2006, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by SJM Manufacturing Inc
O btw, I forgot to mention to you...you mentioned you were warned to stay away from Moser from the beginning, that is why you choose Strange.
It was because of a few folks who may have had a bad experience with Moser obviously. This is what I am referring to, typically you only hear the bad things, not the good. Think of how many components both manufactures have sold even in the past 5 years. Its expected to have a few problems with compnoents down the road.
Human error comes into play and things can get messed up or mistakes happened. You could have purchased another manufactures rear-end and had similar results. Nothing is 100% guarenteed to be flawless, sometimes things happen.
It was because of a few folks who may have had a bad experience with Moser obviously. This is what I am referring to, typically you only hear the bad things, not the good. Think of how many components both manufactures have sold even in the past 5 years. Its expected to have a few problems with compnoents down the road.
Human error comes into play and things can get messed up or mistakes happened. You could have purchased another manufactures rear-end and had similar results. Nothing is 100% guarenteed to be flawless, sometimes things happen.
06-30-2006, 11:33 AM
#17
See there's always light at the end of the tunnel :-).
They probably deal with this quite often. Typically, when you change to a higher gear ratio then stock (not sure if this is your case or not), a rear-end can make more noise. Rotational speeds change, there is also a resonating frequency that will be met that can exasperate and amplify noise.
…Then you have the folks using parts like rod-ended suspension pieces or guys who listen to sounds and focus more on them then they did from before. It’s all probably very frustrating for both the manufacture albeit Strange, Moser etc and the user. What does the manufacture do, what is acceptable to the user? Race components aren’t necessarily going to perform like stock parts in every case.
Can some be better setup then others, sure they can. Look at backlash; ranges typically seen are .005-.009. Set one rear-end up at .005” tight may feel slightly different then the one setup at .009”. Can you feel the difference; certainly if you paid attention to it…they would be both within specifications. Now, the customer complains he hears too much clunking or driveline slack with the looser setup (or the opposite more gear noise from more tooth contact.) Should the manufacture pay to ship a rear-end back and forth again for this, should the customer be reimbursed for their aggregation or inconvenience? (this didn’t appear to happen to you so no need to respond…this is just an example I’m giving)
When you have a human interaction setting up a component, there is room for variance. I would imagine in the end, things will work out and both parties will come to some sort of an agreement.
They probably deal with this quite often. Typically, when you change to a higher gear ratio then stock (not sure if this is your case or not), a rear-end can make more noise. Rotational speeds change, there is also a resonating frequency that will be met that can exasperate and amplify noise.
…Then you have the folks using parts like rod-ended suspension pieces or guys who listen to sounds and focus more on them then they did from before. It’s all probably very frustrating for both the manufacture albeit Strange, Moser etc and the user. What does the manufacture do, what is acceptable to the user? Race components aren’t necessarily going to perform like stock parts in every case.
Can some be better setup then others, sure they can. Look at backlash; ranges typically seen are .005-.009. Set one rear-end up at .005” tight may feel slightly different then the one setup at .009”. Can you feel the difference; certainly if you paid attention to it…they would be both within specifications. Now, the customer complains he hears too much clunking or driveline slack with the looser setup (or the opposite more gear noise from more tooth contact.) Should the manufacture pay to ship a rear-end back and forth again for this, should the customer be reimbursed for their aggregation or inconvenience? (this didn’t appear to happen to you so no need to respond…this is just an example I’m giving)
When you have a human interaction setting up a component, there is room for variance. I would imagine in the end, things will work out and both parties will come to some sort of an agreement.
07-03-2006, 09:04 PM
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Strange Engineering are a bunch of RAT BASTARDS, I would not buy another product from them under any circumstances. I bought a Moser housing, Strange center section from Jay Billingsley, a sponsor. He's a nice guy. The Strange center section screamed so loud it was unbearable, the gear oil was full of iron filings. After arguing with Strange and threatening to go to the Consumer Products Safety Commission they rebuilt the pumpkin only to have it freeze up because the carrier bearings were installed too tight. I had to have it rebuilt again locally to finally get it right. Given the time I could write a book about the aggravation Strange has caused me. Of all the mods I've done on my car, Strange was by far the worst company I ever dealt with. Please DO NOT give them any business, they are scumbags.