WeatherGuy

Got the Mike Kurtz built 200-4R tranny install in my car back from MTI today. There was relatively little power lost going to this tranny from the M6. Before and after results were both measured through a 12-bolt and on drag radials:

Before - 495 RWHP (best pull) on M6 with CF driveshaft.
After - 469 RWHP with *unlocked* coverter and much heavier driveshaft. Adding about 2 HP for the driveshaft and 10 HP for the unlocked converter, I get a real power loss of only about 14 HP. I can live with that - especially on a tranny that is lighter than the 4L60E and the T56. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

After pulling some timing for nitrous (peak falls to 463 RWHP), the car pulled about 620 RWHP on the spray. The RPM measurement failed, but backing out the torque as best as I can, there was a large area with over 700 RWTQ (and not due to converter spike).

This tranny has a 6-month warranty, which covers spraying through the shifts. It is probably good for up to 900-950 ft-lbs of torque. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" />

XLR8NSS

iTrader: (4)

Excellent info!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

I've been waiting online for a while now for your post. I'm tired and my eyes hurt, I'm going to bed. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

Warranty...spraying thru the shifts with over 700rwtq. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />

Sounds good! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

Thanks for the excellent info so far. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

John

WeatherGuy

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by XLR8NSS:
<strong>Excellent info!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

I've been waiting online for a while now for your post. I'm tired and my eyes hurt, I'm going to bed. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

Warranty...spraying thru the shifts with over 700rwtq. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />

Sounds good! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

Thanks for the excellent info so far. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

John</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You are very welcome. It was hard for me to be patient with this, but now that I have it, it was definitely worth the wait.

A few comments on driving it. The shifts are *firm*. This is no longer an old man's transmission. The shifts are so quick that it is almost like dumping the McLeod twin again. It can jolt the drivetrain under hard acceleration or downshifting.

Going from the M6 to this, my reaction is interesting. The car doesn't *feel* as fast as it was with the M6, but watching it launch it is definitely quicker (that is until my 315 Nittos started frying). And I could never shift this fast, even if I were the quickest powershifter in the world.

Patrick G

iTrader: (14)

Great news! Mike Kurtz is the king of 200-4Rs!

Best of luck to you for your maiden voyage at the track. Let us know how you run.

WeatherGuy

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Patrick G:
<strong>Great news! Mike Kurtz is the king of 200-4Rs!

Best of luck to you for your maiden voyage at the track. Let us know how you run.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Will definitely let you all know how it runs, good or bad. Gotta wait a week before racing since I am out of town this weekend.

My converter is not going to be the most optimal all motor, so I am not expecting stellar results all motor, which my next several times at the track will be.

JimmyKash

Honestly....how much did you pay for

JUST

tranny and converter?

xxxhp

Only 14hp loss? Not bad at all <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

When are you planning to run it?

And BTW, for the 620 rwhp what shot was that & was it through unlocked converter?

WeatherGuy

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by xxxhp:
<strong>Only 14hp loss? Not bad at all <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

When are you planning to run it?

And BTW, for the 620 rwhp what shot was that & was it through unlocked converter?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Was a 150 (wet) shot. Yeah, the converter was unlocked.

JimmyKash: PM me and I will let you know.

Ragtop 99

iTrader: (7)

Sounds good. 700 ft-lbs of torque. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> I hope you have some big meats on that car. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

CHRISPY

You lost about 26RWHP from the DS and tranny, that is right in line with what I saw with my 200R. (~30RWHP)
Cheers,
Chris

Quickin

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Quickin:
[QB]Guys,
I have to choose a tranny by this Tuesday. I was going to go with an FLP Level IV. What is up with a 200-R4? Will it act exactly like a 4L60E? OD? Same type of shifting? Is it stronger than the FLP IV? Cost? And anything else you can add.

Thanks
_________________________________________________

WeatherGuy, can you answer this for me?
Thanks

WeatherGuy

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Quickin:
<strong>[QUOTE]Originally posted by Quickin:
[QB]Guys,
I have to choose a tranny by this Tuesday. I was going to go with an FLP Level IV. What is up with a 200-R4? Will it act exactly like a 4L60E? OD? Same type of shifting? Is it stronger than the FLP IV? Cost? And anything else you can add.

Thanks
_________________________________________________

WeatherGuy, can you answer this for me?
Thanks</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sorry Quickin - just got home not too long ago from a 14-hour workday.

The FLP Level IV is going to be cheaper - no doubt about that. It is also not going to be able to take nearly as much as a Kurtz-built 200-4R. One thing to be aware of - not all built 200-4Rs are the same. You may check on the turbobuick.com board for more info - there is a lot of good 200-4R info there. One of the good 200-4R builders is a very regular poster there, and is about as ethical as possible.

If you want an OD tranny that can take the maximal amount, you will need either a 200-4R built right, or a 4L80E (which is heavy as hell and robs a ton of power). If looking at strictly the 4L60E, there are some other issues:

200-4R - vacuum, linepressure, kickdown controlled
4L60E - electronically controlled (probably better)

200-4R gear ratios: 2.74, 1.75, 1.00, 0.67
4L60E ratios: 3.06, 1.63, 1.00, 0.70 (not as good)

converter lockup: can be manual/automatic on either one

200-4R strength: stock is crap, built well and can take 900+ ft-lbs
4L60E strength: stock better but not great, can probably be built really well to take a maximum of 650-700 ft-lbs. Someone please chime in here, since I am not sure on this one.

weight: 200-4R 10lbs lighter than 4L60E

size: 200-4R and TH350 sizes are identical

converters: 200-4R can use almost any 4L60E converter

cost: built 4L60E is definitely cheaper and easier to set up. Kurtz built is expensive, but probably the best OD tranny out there that we can use.

Hope this helps. Anyone else please feel free to correct/add as needed.

Currdog

Greg,
I'll be suprised if you actually make it more than one day at the track without hitting the button.. Congratualtions on the numbers, I'm sure you are happy to have the ride back...

Sean

Quickin

WeatherGuy,
Thanks.

Does the 200-R4 act and feel exactly like the built 4L60E?

I just want strength and no headaches. If I have to pay more, fine, I'll consider it a piece-of-mind expense. I just want a tranny, when installed, I won't know the difference between the FLP 4L60E feel and operation.

If that's true, I'll go with one.

WeatherGuy

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Currdog:
<strong>Greg,
I'll be suprised if you actually make it more than one day at the track without hitting the button.. Congratualtions on the numbers, I'm sure you are happy to have the ride back...

Sean</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It's going to be hard not flipping that little innocent looking switch. Seriously, I need to do some motor passes to check out the shifting/launch/tranny performance. I may also need more tire before spraying.

Very nice having the ride back. Almost got to eat a cowl-hood Fox body on the way home, but there was too much traffic to get after it. I also need to come by your place sometime to see the twin-turbo setup.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Quickin:
<strong>WeatherGuy,
Thanks.

Does the 200-R4 act and feel exactly like the built 4L60E?

I just want strength and no headaches. If I have to pay more, fine, I'll consider it a piece-of-mind expense. I just want a tranny, when installed, I won't know the difference between the FLP 4L60E feel and operation.

If that's true, I'll go with one. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I can't help you on that one, since I have not had a built 4L60E in my car before. Maybe Pro Stock John or someone else can chime in on how they drive.

If you have more questions on the 200-4R, do check out the Buick board (particularly posts by WE4) or give Mike Kurtz a call at 713-666-2616.

Quickin

Thanks for the help. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

Quickin

Guys,
I have to choose a tranny by this Tuesday. I was going to go with an FLP Level IV. What is up with a 200-R4? Will it act exactly like a 4L60E? OD? Same type of shifting? Is it stronger than the FLP IV? Cost? And anything else you can add.

Thanks

Terry Burger

iTrader: (4)

What did the tranny cost? Can he do one with a brake? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

Very interesting.

I dynoed 450rwhp unlocked thru my FLP 4L60E, steel driveshaft, 9" with 4.10 gears, so I would be around 480rwhp thru an M6 I'm guessing.

I'm doing new heads and cam and I hope to hit 475rwhp unlocked.

I'm still a big fan of the FLP tranny, That conversion is neat but around $4500 right?

Terry just get a T350 for now. You have 3.73's right? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

Trevor @ Texas Speed & Perf.

iTrader: (3)

Thanks for the update. I've been really considering going with Mike's 200-4R once my 4L60E craps on me. I would like to have a transmission that will take a LOT of abuse. My future plans call for more N/A power, as well as some N2O if I have a built trans, so this tranny is definitely a consideration. I will NEVER give up OD again. The TH350 with a 4,600 stall in my T/A was PURE HELL for the month I had it. It was a drag car in every sense.

I have dreams of a forged bottom-end 346, heads/cam, TNT wet kit, and Century-built 200-4R. <img border="0" alt="[devil]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_devil.gif" />