TT632

iTrader: (3)

I find the typically BMW buyer quirky or odd. Not all, but enough that you take notice.

Bring the Noise

2009 BMW M3:
4.0L 420hp DOHC (its got an ITB setup from the factory)
Roughly 3660 lb's for the coupe (1655 kg per BMW's web site) and 4100 lb's for the convertible.
No low end torque, but the trans is geared high and the rear end low to compensate.
18" 245's up front and 18" 265's out back (decent combo).
Standing Quarter mile in the high 12's on street tires.

But you could essentially buy a SS1 and a LT1 Camaro (MSRP) for the price of the BMW M3 Coupe. Or buy a SS2/RS packed to the gills along with a head/cam/exhaust/intake/tune package and still have around $10,000 left over...

Now Modding is a night and day difference.
Anyone have a general idea on what it would cost for a Ported and polished head + cam combo for the BMW (are there performance cam's available)?
How about exhaust (probably start in the 3,000 range and work its way up)?
Is there anything left to squeak out of the ITB manifold?

For the Gen 5 F-body.
You can figure a ported set of PRC L92's (with hollow stem valves) at around $1300.
Cam's are between $399 and $600 on average.
Headers... Kooks, ARH, and others 1 3/4" headers with 3" cats combo's for around $1400 at first, but after production ramps up it will hopefully drop in price.
A LS7 clutch and Y-body flywheel combos go for under a grand (I wonder what the twin disk LS9 combo goes for?)
Full Cat back or just Axle back systems shouldn't be that hard to figure out and put the prices around what it runs for the G8's. I wonder if any of the G8 aftermarket exhaust parts can be directly carried over to the Gen 5 F-body?

All in All... The BMW is expensive, only weights a little less, and the performance is similar to the 5th Gen. Ironicly the G8 GT's and GXP's hold up with the BMW's in turning and breaking... and the G8 shares the same platform as the new Camaro.

Me... I'ld rather have a G8 Coupe, but I'm more of a Modern car guy -vs- retro. So I'm waiting on the G8 ST...lol

landonew

It is a status symbol for sure.

TT C6

It's true, the extra 5mph the M3 is getting is nothing to sneeze at.....but the LS3 can EASILY be modded to smash the BWM.

Although I HATE Euro-trash BMW snobs, I have to admit that 300+lbs weight advantage the M3 has is SIGNICANT and cannot be undone.
Ripping apart a brand new Camaro for weight savings is just stupid.
Not to mention, the BMW can be ripped apart for weight savings as well.

The lower weight and DCT trans is where the Camaro can't match the M3.
But, I'd take the Camaro, add a TVS 2300 & headers, then pocket the money saved by skipping the M3.

djsanchez2

iTrader: (14)

Most real world times i can find for the M3 (e92) are all 13.3-13.8 those are actual owners driving them. And for the person that mentioned the M3 launch control, the Camaro also has launch control

Tainted

iTrader: (9)

an m3 is more of a "touring car" not a car someones gonna rip all the parts off of and drag race...

TT632

iTrader: (3)

True, Very few M3's at the drag strip anyway, typically road racers. And the guys that are seriously into their M3's are spending bank on tuning. BMW is not just freely handing out their code in the after market. We are incredibly lucky we have companies like HP tuner and others that support our GM vehicles.

Price, tunability, parts availability, and the durability of an LS3; the edge is all Camaro.

Bullet95z28

iTrader: (3)

There are snobs driving all makes and models of cars. LOL I get it from a lot of LS1 owners just because my 95 is a LT1. LOL (not trying to start anythig) But anyway, i think that stock for stock, the BMW would be faster in the 1/4, after all thats what the original poster asked. But now if you want to get into what would be cheaper to mod, definety the Camaro. Guess we will have to see how the new Camaro performs in the 1/4 by some new owners to know for sure. I think though if i was gonna buy a new car right now it would be a G8 GT. Even though it doesnt get great gas mileage, it is pretty powerfull,very comfortable, and has a lot of room for rear seat passangers. Just my $.02

C Murda

iTrader: (24)

i was raised around BMWs (not a rich kid by any means) and love them. they are built great and worth every penny for what they are. i also since i were 12 have naturally come to be a true chevy guy even make sure my gf's own chevys and current gf im making buy a new chevy to help them out... anywys with the right driver im sure the ne camaro will run equal if not better times than the new M3s. weight is similar and power is similar and the camaro has the bennefit of way more tq. ive read motor trends best in absolute stock form n factory tires it ran a best of 13.1....we all know these test drives arent pros for the most part. give them some time to get used to the car and its launch control feature and im sure it will be a high 12 second car stock.

got-a-ls1

iTrader: (12)

thats a good way to put it... its just they think they're a step above even if they're in a 93 318i
your right there are snobs in every car but some more then others, cough, bmw... i HATE it when i see another f-bod driving by and i wave at them, weather its a busted down and ragged out or a perfect car that looks like a garage queen. i always wave and maybe get a 1/3rd that wave back. You can just tell by the ones that dont wave back are thinkin they're the ****.

anyway to stay on topic, i cant wait to see what these camaros will be running after they get some break in miles and a tune to get rid of the god forsaken torque management they're bound to come with.

TT C6

I HIGHLY disagree with you.
BMW is WAY overpriced and unreliable.

BigBake

I agree with this to an extent, my current BMW of 5 years at 72,000 miles has more issues than my 2001 Camaro SS of the same mileage. I think the most annoying factor is the engine, it rattles and makes more noises than a car with 150,000 miles on it. The VANOS unit is machined poorly so it wears within the first 30,000 miles and begins to rattle, the coil packs have been changed twice, the tune from the factory is flawed in certain conditions creating a miss, and I could go on.

But the product is what it preaches, it is truely a drivers car. It is a blast to drive, it is smooth and the feel is above what you expect. I have a 6 speed manual and it has to be the best gearbox I have ever owned. It is an "M" equipped car so you already have the nice short throw shifter included to make it a drivers experience. The wheels and tire packages compliment the car. The steering ratio and suspension are tuned perfectly for just about every road condition or type of driving. The inline 6 is smooth and delivers power over a broad range and has a good note.

It is a car that you should model other cars around, and GM has done this. A lot of the new cars in GM's line up are modeled around the BMW line up. It is a sound marketing decision, and one that if things improve could be very good for the auto enthusiast who wants a solid car that is feels great when driven and comes with a superior drivetrain to boot and at a reasonable price.

TT C6

My only complaints with my C6's have been steering feel.
Other than that, they've been FLAWLESS.
NEVER has them in for warranty work.

I REALLY want a 335xi with the dual clutch trans when it comes out so I can do a Dinan or Vishnu tune and run mid 12's in the mid teens with, AWD, DSG, and 4 doors.
But, I can't bring myself to buy an UNRELIABLE and overpriced BMW.
It bums me out.
Ditto for the Audi RS4 I almost bought.

I really hoped the new CTS would offer AWD with a LSx engine.
The V6 only with AWD broke my heart.



Just to "keep it real" about GM screw ups:
1st Gen CTS-V rear
4th Gen F-body rear
LT1 Opti-spark

kain01

Well with car and driver magazine editors behind the wheel, the SS Camaro runs a 13.0 @ 111. The best time I've seen on c&d (again magazine racing is the best judge of what stock for stock will do, I'm not touching modding) for the M3 is a 12.6 @ 113. However there was a comparison test where there best time was a 12.9 @ 111. 300 lbs lighter or not, those trap speeds are pretty close, I'd call this one a driver's race.

In the curves I wouldn't tackle the M3 until after a few suspension upgrades, the M3 pulled an 8:05 nurburgring time, and the Camaro did a respectable 8:20, but still not in the M3's league in the curves.

Bullet95z28

iTrader: (3)

[QUOTE=got-a-ls1;11472341] your right there are snobs in every car but some more then others, cough, bmw... i HATE it when i see another f-bod driving by and i wave at them, weather its a busted down and ragged out or a perfect car that looks like a garage queen. i always wave and maybe get a 1/3rd that wave back. You can just tell by the ones that dont wave back are thinkin they're the ****.QUOTE]


I agree with you there, about everytime i see a F-body driving around i do the same thing, despite condition, kinda like when im on my Busa, every bike i see i wave, some wave back others just fly by.

Cant wait to see the new Camaro in action, its just a matter of time now.

1sick'98WS6

iTrader: (19)

after driving my buddys 08 m3 I was not overly impressed with the acceleration of it, it hardly makes any power until 5k+ rpm. Bad *** when reving a v8 8200 rpm though.
Camaro should take it

Nightrydass

the one i priced out was $80K fully loaded!

ChoiceCam00

I agree with you totally BigBake! When I was in Spain the summer of 2003, I saw an Austin Martin DB9 for 105,000 euros which the exchange rate was 106 dollars to 100 euros. When I got back to the states, that same DB9 was 235,000 dollars!!!! The US dealerships really mark up the european cars which could be consider highway robbery! I couldn't believe the mark up. So I'd have to say the mark up for european vehicles is outragous!

TT632

iTrader: (3)

This is applicable to the topic.

1,310 Reasons not to Drag-Race Your BMW M3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSEkU...layer_embedded

kain01

That video is awesome, especially the part about Vette's onstar activating when he wrecked at the racetrack.......never thought about that.