Holding Out for 2014 Gen6 Camaro SS
03-16-2010, 10:31 AM
#41
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More than likely I would bet the Mustang gets a IRS again in its next redesign as Ford builds its vaults back up. Drag racers make up too small of the market. A small run of Trac-pac cars would make infinitely more sense considering G.M.'s current place financially. Chevy is trying to shake its old school image of shoddy interiors and just ok suspensions. I fail to see how a Carmaro with a solid axle would fit in that kind of marketing. Makes sense if their competition is "moving forward" (sarcasm) that Chevy would be "moving backward".
03-16-2010, 10:56 AM
#42
yea i gotta say IRS is much better for msot cars. the solid axle is ehh ok. obviously tis better in a straight line only but not everyone goes to a drag strip. ahving said that they need to shave off about 400lbs either way so it will help both aspects
03-16-2010, 11:15 AM
#43
I agree with the 400 lbs off the car, hell I'd rather see 500 to 600, but I'm trying to keep that reasonable.
The solid axle, all I can say, is that teh 4th gen car had a junk s-10 rear in it, and GM knows that was a mistake, next time around it won't be. The IRS, is really only needed for ride quality.. other then that it's not enough of an improvment in any other aspect to be worth the added cost. The solid axle will decrease cost, and if done right, ride quality can be had with one as well.
The brake caliper diameter should go down, you can have the same stopping ability with an additional piston in the caliper with a substantially smaller rotor, as you do with a lesser caliper and a larger rotor. Going to a larger rotor is the easiest way to incrase braking power, adding another piston to the caliper, can and will do the trick, hell putting 2 small calipers on each rotor would do even more due to the massive increase in pad contact patch.
That, will most likly be left to the aftermarket. The stupid wheel size, I don't like it, only thing that does is slow down the car and add cost, and make tires more expensive, and sacrifice ride quality.
Maybe putting a 17 back on the car with a higher profile tire would be a good way to improve ride quality so the solid axle won't be a problem
The solid axle, all I can say, is that teh 4th gen car had a junk s-10 rear in it, and GM knows that was a mistake, next time around it won't be. The IRS, is really only needed for ride quality.. other then that it's not enough of an improvment in any other aspect to be worth the added cost. The solid axle will decrease cost, and if done right, ride quality can be had with one as well.
The brake caliper diameter should go down, you can have the same stopping ability with an additional piston in the caliper with a substantially smaller rotor, as you do with a lesser caliper and a larger rotor. Going to a larger rotor is the easiest way to incrase braking power, adding another piston to the caliper, can and will do the trick, hell putting 2 small calipers on each rotor would do even more due to the massive increase in pad contact patch.
That, will most likly be left to the aftermarket. The stupid wheel size, I don't like it, only thing that does is slow down the car and add cost, and make tires more expensive, and sacrifice ride quality.
Maybe putting a 17 back on the car with a higher profile tire would be a good way to improve ride quality so the solid axle won't be a problem
03-16-2010, 08:19 PM
#44
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I agree with the 400 lbs off the car, hell I'd rather see 500 to 600, but I'm trying to keep that reasonable.
The solid axle, all I can say, is that teh 4th gen car had a junk s-10 rear in it, and GM knows that was a mistake, next time around it won't be. The IRS, is really only needed for ride quality.. other then that it's not enough of an improvment in any other aspect to be worth the added cost. The solid axle will decrease cost, and if done right, ride quality can be had with one as well.
The brake caliper diameter should go down, you can have the same stopping ability with an additional piston in the caliper with a substantially smaller rotor, as you do with a lesser caliper and a larger rotor. Going to a larger rotor is the easiest way to incrase braking power, adding another piston to the caliper, can and will do the trick, hell putting 2 small calipers on each rotor would do even more due to the massive increase in pad contact patch.
That, will most likly be left to the aftermarket. The stupid wheel size, I don't like it, only thing that does is slow down the car and add cost, and make tires more expensive, and sacrifice ride quality.
Maybe putting a 17 back on the car with a higher profile tire would be a good way to improve ride quality so the solid axle won't be a problem
The solid axle, all I can say, is that teh 4th gen car had a junk s-10 rear in it, and GM knows that was a mistake, next time around it won't be. The IRS, is really only needed for ride quality.. other then that it's not enough of an improvment in any other aspect to be worth the added cost. The solid axle will decrease cost, and if done right, ride quality can be had with one as well.
The brake caliper diameter should go down, you can have the same stopping ability with an additional piston in the caliper with a substantially smaller rotor, as you do with a lesser caliper and a larger rotor. Going to a larger rotor is the easiest way to incrase braking power, adding another piston to the caliper, can and will do the trick, hell putting 2 small calipers on each rotor would do even more due to the massive increase in pad contact patch.
That, will most likly be left to the aftermarket. The stupid wheel size, I don't like it, only thing that does is slow down the car and add cost, and make tires more expensive, and sacrifice ride quality.
Maybe putting a 17 back on the car with a higher profile tire would be a good way to improve ride quality so the solid axle won't be a problem
03-17-2010, 08:09 AM
#45
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A Camaro made in 2010 should not weigh 3800lbs, maybe in 1980 I could see it. I'd rather see a V6 Turbo Camaro, than no Camaro at all, which is the reality if its V8 only. As long as its packing a punch I dont see what the problem is. Besides even the V6 model thats in there now outpowers everything made from about 1975-1992. If your going to talk about heritage, I don't think theres much to say for about half the cars history. I don't care how great it sounds a Carbed 350 cranking out 200hp is pathetic in any era.
03-22-2010, 08:24 AM
#47
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I think anyone and everyone who likes the 5th gens should cherish each and every car that rolls off the line. With GM being in financial trouble, it will be the first to get the axe when sales slump and there's no more "look at me" left about it. Waiting for a "6th gen" is probably the dumbest thing I have heard in a while.
03-22-2010, 08:31 AM
#48
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I agree with the 400 lbs off the car, hell I'd rather see 500 to 600, but I'm trying to keep that reasonable.
The cars arent heavy bc the auto makers want them to be, its bc big brother says so and they have to play by the rules.
The solid axle, all I can say, is that teh 4th gen car had a junk s-10 rear in it, GM cut corners to make the car competitive and GM knows that was a mistake, GM didnt replace many 10 bolts during warranty periods. Most people that break them are the ones who get the car long after the warranty is up. GM dont give a **** about a 10 bolt.next time around it won't be. The IRS, is really only needed for ride quality.. other then that it's not enough of an improvment in any other aspect to be worth the added cost. The solid axle will decrease cost, and if done right, ride quality can be had with one as well. MOST new car buyers want the ride quality, performance enthusiasts might as well get ready to do a solid axle swap
The brake caliper diameter should go down, you can have the same stopping ability with an additional piston in the caliper with a substantially smaller rotor, as you do with a lesser caliper and a larger rotor. Going to a larger rotor is the easiest way to incrase braking power, adding another piston to the caliper, can and will do the trick, hell putting 2 small calipers on each rotor would do even more due to the massive increase in pad contact patch.
That, will most likly be left to the aftermarket. The stupid wheel size, I don't like it, only thing that does is slow down the car and add cost, and make tires more expensive, and sacrifice ride quality.All automakers are pulling this ****, if you dont, then you are getting left behind. And people are dumb enough to buy it, so they are gonna keep making it. Not many seem to realize, the whole big wheel ordeal defies all common rationality
Maybe putting a 17 back on the car with a higher profile tire would be a good way to improve ride quality so the solid axle won't be a problemfirst thing I agree with in your entire post
The cars arent heavy bc the auto makers want them to be, its bc big brother says so and they have to play by the rules.
The solid axle, all I can say, is that teh 4th gen car had a junk s-10 rear in it, GM cut corners to make the car competitive and GM knows that was a mistake, GM didnt replace many 10 bolts during warranty periods. Most people that break them are the ones who get the car long after the warranty is up. GM dont give a **** about a 10 bolt.next time around it won't be. The IRS, is really only needed for ride quality.. other then that it's not enough of an improvment in any other aspect to be worth the added cost. The solid axle will decrease cost, and if done right, ride quality can be had with one as well. MOST new car buyers want the ride quality, performance enthusiasts might as well get ready to do a solid axle swap
The brake caliper diameter should go down, you can have the same stopping ability with an additional piston in the caliper with a substantially smaller rotor, as you do with a lesser caliper and a larger rotor. Going to a larger rotor is the easiest way to incrase braking power, adding another piston to the caliper, can and will do the trick, hell putting 2 small calipers on each rotor would do even more due to the massive increase in pad contact patch.
That, will most likly be left to the aftermarket. The stupid wheel size, I don't like it, only thing that does is slow down the car and add cost, and make tires more expensive, and sacrifice ride quality.All automakers are pulling this ****, if you dont, then you are getting left behind. And people are dumb enough to buy it, so they are gonna keep making it. Not many seem to realize, the whole big wheel ordeal defies all common rationality
Maybe putting a 17 back on the car with a higher profile tire would be a good way to improve ride quality so the solid axle won't be a problem
first thing I agree with in your entire post
03-22-2010, 08:42 AM
#49
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Let me tell you a quick story:
Girl I just met, says "hey I recognize your car".... Flattered I say "o yeah where from??" She says, "ah from the bank down the street. You used to pass by there all the time huh?" I says "yep, going to the post office and back." She said "Well you're car is slow" I said "huh??!!??"
She said "you're car is slow" I said "well how do you know that bc you have never ridden in it?" She explains, " Well it always revs up and it never goes anywhere. I always hear it but it never gets moving."
My car at that time had a 3600 converter, TR224, LTs, and true duals with turn-downs. Now, those may make you see/hear a performance car. To the average person its a loud slow piece of ****.
My point is simply this: Auto-makers aren't trying to impress you, in any way shape or form as a car enthusiast. They are trying to sell cars. Period. The only reason the 5th gens have 400+ hp is bc they HAVE to in order to be competitive. If GM could sell them with 150hp, you better bet for damn sure that they would give you a NA inline 4 and wouldn't lose a wink of sleep about your hurt feelings.
Girl I just met, says "hey I recognize your car".... Flattered I say "o yeah where from??" She says, "ah from the bank down the street. You used to pass by there all the time huh?" I says "yep, going to the post office and back." She said "Well you're car is slow" I said "huh??!!??"
She said "you're car is slow" I said "well how do you know that bc you have never ridden in it?" She explains, " Well it always revs up and it never goes anywhere. I always hear it but it never gets moving."
My car at that time had a 3600 converter, TR224, LTs, and true duals with turn-downs. Now, those may make you see/hear a performance car. To the average person its a loud slow piece of ****.
My point is simply this: Auto-makers aren't trying to impress you, in any way shape or form as a car enthusiast. They are trying to sell cars. Period. The only reason the 5th gens have 400+ hp is bc they HAVE to in order to be competitive. If GM could sell them with 150hp, you better bet for damn sure that they would give you a NA inline 4 and wouldn't lose a wink of sleep about your hurt feelings.
03-22-2010, 09:02 AM
#51
Well, since all the doubters seem to not think it's possible, I got an e-mail today from my GM contact, who asked the question to Jon Fitzpatrick, and he was told that Gm is aware and was workign on it until the budget constraints put alot of things on hold, but it's one of the first things on the list to get back to as soon as the budget will allow. At this point they are planning to get back to the development of a solid axle setup for the fifth gen platform.
So there it is... from people that are really in the know. I'd copy/paste the e-mail but I'm not about to start giving out those address's on a public forum, these are busy people and don't have time for the banter they'd likly get. Plus, I'm sure they wouldn't like me doing that either!
So there it is... from people that are really in the know. I'd copy/paste the e-mail but I'm not about to start giving out those address's on a public forum, these are busy people and don't have time for the banter they'd likly get. Plus, I'm sure they wouldn't like me doing that either!
03-22-2010, 09:59 AM
#53
That's too much like work. If you don't want to believe me then don't, I could care less. But I will, believe me I have a link saved to this thread and will be mushing it all over the naysayer's faces when it comes out. I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up in their sig/avatar. Solid axle is coming, I guarintee that.
03-22-2010, 10:16 AM
#54
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Well solid axle or no doesnt change their reasoning. They will change it to cut costs, not bc its better/stronger at a drag strip or whatever. The reason they want it and the reason everyone else on this site wants it are completely different. And right when you get another email stating the 5th gen is getting the solid axle finally, and you rejoice, you will be seeing on the news that they pulled the plug on the whole damn car. Talk about a catch 22. To this date, every person I have seen driving a 5th gen has been a non-enthusiast. Call it profiling if you will, but if the shoe fits....
03-22-2010, 10:17 AM
#55
That's too much like work. If you don't want to believe me then don't, I could care less. But I will, believe me I have a link saved to this thread and will be mushing it all over the naysayer's faces when it comes out. I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up in their sig/avatar. Solid axle is coming, I guarintee that.
i was just saying to save it as a screen shot and post it up for all the nay sayers to bask in...
03-22-2010, 11:00 AM
#56
i think the "track pack" idea is the perfect solution. but maybe not an option package, so much as another trim level. re-inventing the old legend is what the 5th gen is about? so "re-invent" with a solid rear, and come up with a new moniker for it. maybe this isnt the best idea, but there are other options. just as the 4th gens were sent out to SLP/ASC, have GMPP ready to do the conversion off the line.
this all ties into the idea that we SHOULD be able to option out for a bigger motor, as in the old days.
base- LS3
lvl 2- LS7
lvl 3- LS9
i also believe the future of this LS motors is coming to DI. might cost a little more, but it would open the door for a new LS motor (5 and 8 are still open) so add a few more cubes & DI and you have a a new motor making between the LS3 & LS7 power.
ahhhh so many ideas of what the 6th gen COULD offer.
this all ties into the idea that we SHOULD be able to option out for a bigger motor, as in the old days.
base- LS3
lvl 2- LS7
lvl 3- LS9
i also believe the future of this LS motors is coming to DI. might cost a little more, but it would open the door for a new LS motor (5 and 8 are still open) so add a few more cubes & DI and you have a a new motor making between the LS3 & LS7 power.
ahhhh so many ideas of what the 6th gen COULD offer.
03-22-2010, 11:08 AM
#57
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And yet nobody has the vaguest thought that these cars are being made on a severe budget. Anything not making money is going down the drain. Business, plain and simple. I think GM has some recovering to do before they start offering fun and exciting things again.
03-23-2010, 12:12 AM
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They wont do it because they cant. Now what i would LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE for GM to do is move the weight back down into the 3400's capable of being 2900's with a 300 hp LS3 that breaths through a straw... so you put exhaust / intake and OMGZORS power... how hard would that be? then they could meet their standards... and make us happy...
03-23-2010, 12:14 AM
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I agree with the 400 lbs off the car, hell I'd rather see 500 to 600, but I'm trying to keep that reasonable.
The solid axle, all I can say, is that teh 4th gen car had a junk s-10 rear in it, and GM knows that was a mistake, next time around it won't be. The IRS, is really only needed for ride quality.. other then that it's not enough of an improvment in any other aspect to be worth the added cost. The solid axle will decrease cost, and if done right, ride quality can be had with one as well.
The brake caliper diameter should go down, you can have the same stopping ability with an additional piston in the caliper with a substantially smaller rotor, as you do with a lesser caliper and a larger rotor. Going to a larger rotor is the easiest way to incrase braking power, adding another piston to the caliper, can and will do the trick, hell putting 2 small calipers on each rotor would do even more due to the massive increase in pad contact patch.
That, will most likly be left to the aftermarket. The stupid wheel size, I don't like it, only thing that does is slow down the car and add cost, and make tires more expensive, and sacrifice ride quality.
Maybe putting a 17 back on the car with a higher profile tire would be a good way to improve ride quality so the solid axle won't be a problem
The solid axle, all I can say, is that teh 4th gen car had a junk s-10 rear in it, and GM knows that was a mistake, next time around it won't be. The IRS, is really only needed for ride quality.. other then that it's not enough of an improvment in any other aspect to be worth the added cost. The solid axle will decrease cost, and if done right, ride quality can be had with one as well.
The brake caliper diameter should go down, you can have the same stopping ability with an additional piston in the caliper with a substantially smaller rotor, as you do with a lesser caliper and a larger rotor. Going to a larger rotor is the easiest way to incrase braking power, adding another piston to the caliper, can and will do the trick, hell putting 2 small calipers on each rotor would do even more due to the massive increase in pad contact patch.
That, will most likly be left to the aftermarket. The stupid wheel size, I don't like it, only thing that does is slow down the car and add cost, and make tires more expensive, and sacrifice ride quality.
Maybe putting a 17 back on the car with a higher profile tire would be a good way to improve ride quality so the solid axle won't be a problem