2011 5.0 Mustang will kick Camaro's ass big time
06-07-2010, 12:00 AM
#42
Staging Lane
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i don't get it why be so worried. everything i have read says the camaro will beat the mustang by a very small margin. to get the mustang equally equipped, the mustang will be in the very high 30k's or low 40k's. as for 1/4 racing why does the camaro still win because for every 9.19 lbs there is 1 lb-ft of torque to accelerate it vs 9.38 lbs for every 1 lb-ft of torque in the mustang. still a small advantage in the camaro's favor.
looking at the trany gears with the rear end ratio of the two. the mustang has a sight edge in first gear combo with its rear end, but camaro is nearly equal to the mustangs in 2nd gear. now remember that your tranny gears and rear end gear are torque multipliers. now redoing the weight to torque ratio for both cars for every gear.
camaro mustang
6.666950454 8.341222417
4.58491277 5.538024719
3.167355199 3.851548056
2.214933706 3.008309724
1.860544313 2.279022518
1.262512212 1.481364637
camaro still wins. not only does it win on paper like above it beats in actual 1/4 drag.
the 2011 mustang is very impressive. it's what ford should have and could have built in the early 90s instead of the 4.6 L turds. this the mustang that needed to be built almost 20 years ago. just imagine if ford did...i am sure i would be driving a mustang now because just imagine what they would be like now if they did. it would have crussed the LT1 and LS1 camaros of the day. but as of 2011, the mustang comes very close to camaro. but the phrase to remember is comes close. is it a drivers race...when is it not with two cars that are in the same ball park, but if you have two drivers on equal ground, the camaro will win.
now i can't speak about top end speed because i don't have the drag coefficient and frontal area for the mustang; however i do for the camaro. i have calculated camaro's theoretical top speed to be 176.8 mph (no governor). some dude in bonneville did 174 mph so take into account sand slippage and the numbers are sound. i am sure the camaro will beat the mustang in that respect too. but if i get the numbers, we can see.
my personal verdict is both are nearly equal cars with a camaro with a very slight performance edge; however a camaro 2ss with RS will be cheaper than an equally equipped mustang especially after ford's new higher pricing.
the thing to watch out for is that 6.2L ford engine. i work with a woman that worked at ford when they were developing the engine. ford put more time and resourse into the 6.2l than they did with the 5.0L. to me that says something. now if ford puts that 6.2L in the mustang now you should have something to worry about.
looking at the trany gears with the rear end ratio of the two. the mustang has a sight edge in first gear combo with its rear end, but camaro is nearly equal to the mustangs in 2nd gear. now remember that your tranny gears and rear end gear are torque multipliers. now redoing the weight to torque ratio for both cars for every gear.
camaro mustang
6.666950454 8.341222417
4.58491277 5.538024719
3.167355199 3.851548056
2.214933706 3.008309724
1.860544313 2.279022518
1.262512212 1.481364637
camaro still wins. not only does it win on paper like above it beats in actual 1/4 drag.
the 2011 mustang is very impressive. it's what ford should have and could have built in the early 90s instead of the 4.6 L turds. this the mustang that needed to be built almost 20 years ago. just imagine if ford did...i am sure i would be driving a mustang now because just imagine what they would be like now if they did. it would have crussed the LT1 and LS1 camaros of the day. but as of 2011, the mustang comes very close to camaro. but the phrase to remember is comes close. is it a drivers race...when is it not with two cars that are in the same ball park, but if you have two drivers on equal ground, the camaro will win.
now i can't speak about top end speed because i don't have the drag coefficient and frontal area for the mustang; however i do for the camaro. i have calculated camaro's theoretical top speed to be 176.8 mph (no governor). some dude in bonneville did 174 mph so take into account sand slippage and the numbers are sound. i am sure the camaro will beat the mustang in that respect too. but if i get the numbers, we can see.
my personal verdict is both are nearly equal cars with a camaro with a very slight performance edge; however a camaro 2ss with RS will be cheaper than an equally equipped mustang especially after ford's new higher pricing.
the thing to watch out for is that 6.2L ford engine. i work with a woman that worked at ford when they were developing the engine. ford put more time and resourse into the 6.2l than they did with the 5.0L. to me that says something. now if ford puts that 6.2L in the mustang now you should have something to worry about.
06-07-2010, 12:39 AM
#43
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If no one cares then why did you reply? If you really dont care, then act like it.
Last edited by GT2ENVY; 06-07-2010 at 12:48 AM.
06-07-2010, 12:43 AM
#44
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
06-07-2010, 02:14 AM
#45
11 Second Club
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Pasadena, Texas
Posts: 140
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For another example, my bone stock GXP could kick the crap out of a bone stock 4.6 Mustang GT, hell I could even beat it with my air conditioner blowing full, however you won't see me going to any Mustang forums and talking s**t about it. When I visit Mustang and Challenger sites, I visit with respect, realizing I am a visitor in their 'house'.
Last edited by old_goat; 06-07-2010 at 02:37 AM.
06-07-2010, 05:38 AM
#46
Staging Lane
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Edinburg, Tx
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey old_goat that was very well said my amigo, but now that romulussmallblock mentioned the 6.2 we will have some thing to worry about... BUT... I am sure that GM will have something to compete with ford IF the 6.2 ever does come out in the mustang.
Javier
Javier
06-07-2010, 05:57 AM
#47
11 Second Club
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Pasadena, Texas
Posts: 140
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Javier thanks for the kind words, but I don't really care about these so called rumors. I hear rumors about the 6.4 hemi, rumors about the Z/28, and now rumors about the 6.2 Mustang. Until the cars are being delivered, they are nothing more than rumors.
06-07-2010, 07:17 AM
#48
Launching!
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Miami
Posts: 250
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I won't say it is impossible, but from what I understand the 6.2 ford motor is physically very large (and heavy) and will not realistically fit in the mustang engine bay.
06-07-2010, 09:09 AM
#49
On The Tree
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i don't get it why be so worried. everything i have read says the camaro will beat the mustang by a very small margin. to get the mustang equally equipped, the mustang will be in the very high 30k's or low 40k's. as for 1/4 racing why does the camaro still win because for every 9.19 lbs there is 1 lb-ft of torque to accelerate it vs 9.38 lbs for every 1 lb-ft of torque in the mustang. still a small advantage in the camaro's favor. ....
l.
l.
th gear (1.32:1)
Horsepower: 377.99 hp @ 6500 rpm
Torque: 351.44 lb-ft @ 4400 rpm
K&N also dyno'd the 2010 Camaro as part of their research for their filter.
@ about 5100 rpm
335.65 HP
341.62 TQ
I use these example ONLY to show the engine out put for the Mustang may be higher than what Ford claims IIRC Edmund had similar power out put for the Stang. I know that the 6.2 may do better also but both test were preformed by K&N so I used their numbers.
Last edited by FOG52; 06-07-2010 at 09:26 AM.
06-07-2010, 09:52 AM
#51
LS1Tech Co-Founder
iTrader: (34)
As a FWIW, MM&FF took a new Mustang and went 12.6 on stock tires and 12.3's on drag radials, that was the only mod. This was with Evan Smith driving who wheeled a 4th gen to a 12.89 bone stock which was the best or one of the best stock passes ever in one of these cars.
I have seen a guy post running 12.6's in his 5th gen, all stock.
Viva the muscle car wars!
I have seen a guy post running 12.6's in his 5th gen, all stock.
Viva the muscle car wars!
06-07-2010, 09:53 AM
#52
Staging Lane
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Motor Trend had K&N dyno the 2011 Mustang it made
th gear (1.32:1)
Horsepower: 377.99 hp @ 6500 rpm
Torque: 351.44 lb-ft @ 4400 rpm
K&N also dyno'd the 2010 Camaro as part of their research for their filter.
@ about 5100 rpm
335.65 HP
341.62 TQ
th gear (1.32:1)
Horsepower: 377.99 hp @ 6500 rpm
Torque: 351.44 lb-ft @ 4400 rpm
K&N also dyno'd the 2010 Camaro as part of their research for their filter.
@ about 5100 rpm
335.65 HP
341.62 TQ
06-07-2010, 10:29 AM
#55
On The Tree
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i got a big problem with the camaro figures. i will use two examples: one will be mine and the other is the guy from bonneville. taking into account drivetrain lose of 8.5% the max out put of the camaro at the wheels is about 389 to 390 hp. the guy at bonneville did 174 mph (non-governored); the power required to over come the force of drag and rolling friction at the speed is about 380 to 390 hp. i topped my camaro out this weekend at 155 (governored); the hp to over come the force at that speed is about 267.1 hp, and probably not possible if the hp was 335 at the wheels was max power.
Actual torque: 404 lb-ft @ 4400 rpm." I have seen several 5.0 dyno numbers some a little more some a little less than the K&N numbers and IMHO its a good average. I honestly don't have a good feeling for what the Camaro averages stock. I do think Ford underrated their engine it wouldn't be the first time. The old 427 side oiler was rated at 425 hp while it dyno'd around 500hp on an engine dyno.
267.1 hp, and probably not possible if the hp was 335 at the wheels
Last edited by FOG52; 06-07-2010 at 10:41 AM.
06-07-2010, 10:32 AM
#56
Launching!
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Woodlands,Texas/New Orleans
Posts: 299
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
i really HATE ppl who claim that they R LOYAl GM,Camaro,Trans Am,GTO,CorVette,CTS V,G8 etc.owners & lovers R part of sites like LS1tech,Camaro5.com etc. and become sellouts @ 1st everybody was on the 2010 Camaro bandwagon now they have become traitors to the ugly slow trash can ford mustank if u have that much confidence in that ugly 2011 ford mustank cancel your LS1tech account sell your GM car and buy a ford im GM 4 life itz GM R nuthin else i aint NEVER crossing over NEVER
06-07-2010, 11:08 AM
#58
Staging Lane
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the 267.1 hp is the opposing force's power on the car. yes that would mean that the car would needs that at the wheels to do the speed on flat ground. the 8.5% is based on dyno numbers vs fly wheel numbers. yes it is low, but not that far off from 10%. a good rule of thumb is 10%-15% loss via drive train, but is only rule of thumb.
06-07-2010, 11:25 AM
#60
On The Tree
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the 267.1 hp is the opposing force's power on the car. yes that would mean that the car would needs that at the wheels to do the speed on flat ground. the 8.5% is based on dyno numbers vs fly wheel numbers. yes it is low, but not that far off from 10%. a good rule of thumb is 10%-15% loss via drive train, but is only rule of thumb.