4th Gen vs. 5th Gen profile comparo. *pic*
02-11-2011 | 08:07 PM
#82
Some of these comments make me laugh.
Why wont the 5th gen develop a following or people that are passionate about it? The main reason I am hearing this is because it is too successful? or too new? what the hell. How can this be helped?
Of coarse their will be some idiot owners...especially when it is a very trendy car right now. But I see no reason why people will not be owning these in the future etc. like any other car. I am really confused by some of this reasoning. Seems a lot like jealousy in some cases.
Seems like most of the answers to this for a lot of you people is to take the car backward and make it harder to live with. In other words I guess GM should develop this car to fail?
I have no problem with 4th gens and I really dont understand some of the hate you guys bring to the table. It is just odd...and some of the reasons are even more ridiculous.
Anyone who thinks this car will not hold up in the long run knows nothing about how this car was built and needs to do some research. One look at the chassis structure etc does not take a rocket scientist to realize it will stay very solid for a very long time. Compared to the 4th gen the chassis is much more solid. Those cars would develop creases in the 1/4 panels if you ran them too hard without sub-frame connectors.
Why wont the 5th gen develop a following or people that are passionate about it? The main reason I am hearing this is because it is too successful? or too new? what the hell. How can this be helped?
Of coarse their will be some idiot owners...especially when it is a very trendy car right now. But I see no reason why people will not be owning these in the future etc. like any other car. I am really confused by some of this reasoning. Seems a lot like jealousy in some cases.
Seems like most of the answers to this for a lot of you people is to take the car backward and make it harder to live with. In other words I guess GM should develop this car to fail?
I have no problem with 4th gens and I really dont understand some of the hate you guys bring to the table. It is just odd...and some of the reasons are even more ridiculous.
Anyone who thinks this car will not hold up in the long run knows nothing about how this car was built and needs to do some research. One look at the chassis structure etc does not take a rocket scientist to realize it will stay very solid for a very long time. Compared to the 4th gen the chassis is much more solid. Those cars would develop creases in the 1/4 panels if you ran them too hard without sub-frame connectors.
02-11-2011 | 09:20 PM
#83
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 32,726
Likes: 1,836
From: Schiller Park, IL Member: #317
I think there are two groups of "4th Gen Holdouts" that exist, and many of the 5th Gen guys feel insulted by one of the groups.
One group are current owners of 4th gens who bash the 5th gen repeatedly, primarily because they do not have the financial means to obtain one. I think there are many people on this site that are quick to bash anything that they don't own, and promote what they do own; that's a habit sometimes, when you've invested a lot of money in something. However, if someone were to say "I'll trade you my comparable 5th gen Camaro for your 4th gen" to this group of guys, they would take it in a heartbeat, and would subsequently jump on the 5th gen bandwagon.
The second group of guys, most notably like RPM WS6 and myself, admire the 5th gen for what it is, and respect the fact that GM is trying to make the Camaro appeal to the masses to promote financial gain for their company, but we feel as though our 4th gens are a better fit for our personality traits. We don't like owning things that are new and popular, and would rather be placed in a "niche" group that values unique ideas of the past, like the OHV V8's of a 4th gen, the rough and raw handling style, and the overall simplicity. If you were to offer your comparable 5th gen in trade for our clean 4th gens, we would say "No," instinctively. We (well, I at least!) still love the top dogs like the C6Z06 and ZR1 cars, even though they're new and modern, because they're not a dime a dozen, though.
One group are current owners of 4th gens who bash the 5th gen repeatedly, primarily because they do not have the financial means to obtain one. I think there are many people on this site that are quick to bash anything that they don't own, and promote what they do own; that's a habit sometimes, when you've invested a lot of money in something. However, if someone were to say "I'll trade you my comparable 5th gen Camaro for your 4th gen" to this group of guys, they would take it in a heartbeat, and would subsequently jump on the 5th gen bandwagon.
The second group of guys, most notably like RPM WS6 and myself, admire the 5th gen for what it is, and respect the fact that GM is trying to make the Camaro appeal to the masses to promote financial gain for their company, but we feel as though our 4th gens are a better fit for our personality traits. We don't like owning things that are new and popular, and would rather be placed in a "niche" group that values unique ideas of the past, like the OHV V8's of a 4th gen, the rough and raw handling style, and the overall simplicity. If you were to offer your comparable 5th gen in trade for our clean 4th gens, we would say "No," instinctively. We (well, I at least!) still love the top dogs like the C6Z06 and ZR1 cars, even though they're new and modern, because they're not a dime a dozen, though.
It's not that they won't have a following, it's that the future following likely won't be nearly as stong as it is now (when the 5th gen is considered "outdated"). Reason being, much of the popularity and success that the 5th gen currently enjoys is because of it's appeal to more mainstream trendy buyers, and the very nature of these people is to constantly move on to whatever is "latest and greatest" (for example, all the people who feel the 5th gen is better simply because it's newer/more refined/etc., will say the same things about the eventual 6th gen and thus move on). As those people move on, you'll be left with the group of people who really love the 5th gens for what they are, above and beyond their position as the newest offering, and these people will stick with/buy these cars well into the future (just like 4th gens today). The question is, will this remaining group of people be as large/committed to this car as people who still love the various other generations of Camaro? Only time will tell, but the fact remains that 4th gens sales were lower mostly because they lacked the bulk of trendy buyers that the 5th gen has grabbed. In the end, even with higher sales than the 4th gen as a new car, the 5th gen may not prove to be more popular with hobbyists than a 4th gen, once similarly aged.
One thing that's interesting to consider is, again, Corvette. Corvette has always had low production numbers as compared to other mass-production cars, yet it has one of the strongest followings of any car ever produced, and it is by no means a mainstream car designed for general daily use by the average consumer. So in this case, you have a car with low build numbers that's been a massive success in the hobbyist market. Also interesting is the fact that ALL generations of Corvette contiune to maintain a stong loyalty among their owners....all from a non-mainstream car.
Point being, just because sales numbers are low doesn't mean the car isn't loved by it's owners, and conversely, just because a car is a popular seller when new doesn't mean that level of love will continue forever.
Last edited by RPM WS6; 02-11-2011 at 09:26 PM.
02-11-2011 | 10:31 PM
#84
Yep, I agree completely on all points, as usual.
I'm pretty sure this was in response to my post, so allow me to clarify, since either I didn't get my point across properly or you misunderstood me.
It's not that they won't have a following, it's that the future following likely won't be nearly as stong as it is now (when the 5th gen is considered "outdated"). Reason being, much of the popularity and success that the 5th gen currently enjoys is because of it's appeal to more mainstream trendy buyers, and the very nature of these people is to constantly move on to whatever is "latest and greatest" (for example, all the people who feel the 5th gen is better simply because it's newer/more refined/etc., will say the same things about the eventual 6th gen and thus move on). As those people move on, you'll be left with the group of people who really love the 5th gens for what they are, above and beyond their position as the newest offering, and these people will stick with/buy these cars well into the future (just like 4th gens today). The question is, will this remaining group of people be as large/committed to this car as people who still love the various other generations of Camaro? Only time will tell, but the fact remains that 4th gens sales were lower mostly because they lacked the bulk of trendy buyers that the 5th gen has grabbed. In the end, even with higher sales than the 4th gen as a new car, the 5th gen may not prove to be more popular with hobbyists than a 4th gen, once similarly aged.
One thing that's interesting to consider is, again, Corvette. Corvette has always had low production numbers as compared to other mass-production cars, yet it has one of the strongest followings of any car ever produced, and it is by no means a mainstream car designed for general daily use by the average consumer. So in this case, you have a car with low build numbers that's been a massive success in the hobbyist market. Also interesting is the fact that ALL generations of Corvette contiune to maintain a stong loyalty among their owners....all from a non-mainstream car.
Point being, just because sales numbers are low doesn't mean the car isn't loved by it's owners, and conversely, just because a car is a popular seller when new doesn't mean that level of love will continue forever.
In some cases, I'm sure you're right. But I can assure you this is not the case for me, as I could literally write a check for a new 5th gen tomorrow if I wanted it that bad. For a better understanding, see the post I quoted above by The Bronx Bull, it covers this point quite well.
Personally, I just wish I could continue buying brand new 4th gens forever. But I know that's not the popular opinion, nor would it be a good business move for GM. On that note, I think I might start shopping for yet another low mileage 4th gen to make sure I have enough to last a lifetime.
I'm pretty sure this was in response to my post, so allow me to clarify, since either I didn't get my point across properly or you misunderstood me.
It's not that they won't have a following, it's that the future following likely won't be nearly as stong as it is now (when the 5th gen is considered "outdated"). Reason being, much of the popularity and success that the 5th gen currently enjoys is because of it's appeal to more mainstream trendy buyers, and the very nature of these people is to constantly move on to whatever is "latest and greatest" (for example, all the people who feel the 5th gen is better simply because it's newer/more refined/etc., will say the same things about the eventual 6th gen and thus move on). As those people move on, you'll be left with the group of people who really love the 5th gens for what they are, above and beyond their position as the newest offering, and these people will stick with/buy these cars well into the future (just like 4th gens today). The question is, will this remaining group of people be as large/committed to this car as people who still love the various other generations of Camaro? Only time will tell, but the fact remains that 4th gens sales were lower mostly because they lacked the bulk of trendy buyers that the 5th gen has grabbed. In the end, even with higher sales than the 4th gen as a new car, the 5th gen may not prove to be more popular with hobbyists than a 4th gen, once similarly aged.
One thing that's interesting to consider is, again, Corvette. Corvette has always had low production numbers as compared to other mass-production cars, yet it has one of the strongest followings of any car ever produced, and it is by no means a mainstream car designed for general daily use by the average consumer. So in this case, you have a car with low build numbers that's been a massive success in the hobbyist market. Also interesting is the fact that ALL generations of Corvette contiune to maintain a stong loyalty among their owners....all from a non-mainstream car.
Point being, just because sales numbers are low doesn't mean the car isn't loved by it's owners, and conversely, just because a car is a popular seller when new doesn't mean that level of love will continue forever.
In some cases, I'm sure you're right. But I can assure you this is not the case for me, as I could literally write a check for a new 5th gen tomorrow if I wanted it that bad. For a better understanding, see the post I quoted above by The Bronx Bull, it covers this point quite well.
Personally, I just wish I could continue buying brand new 4th gens forever. But I know that's not the popular opinion, nor would it be a good business move for GM. On that note, I think I might start shopping for yet another low mileage 4th gen to make sure I have enough to last a lifetime.
All these points about the cars future success with enthusiasts is just purely speculation. It is not something to hinge an argument on and I think it is rather silly.
I am also not seeing how a car being successful now translates into it being a failure later. Not anymore than how a car being a failure in the past translates into it being more of a success in the future. This is an odd point of view and a grasp if I have ever seen one. I can kind of see what you are saying but it is a very odd point of view. Just because the mainstream likes a car doesn't mean a guy like me will not. Not unless I couldnt have one and I was being immature and foolish about it.
And since when is the 4th gen some timeless classic that everyone is dying for? Maybe in ls1tech land...but sadly most people dont really think much of them. I am surely not in agreement with the mainstream. I like the cars a lot. I like all GM LSX based cars. I am not sure how corvette sales are being compared to a camaro. The sales of a corvette are going to be much lower because of its price. Plain and simple. Not sure how this argument stacks up in any way.
I surely didnt see this coming a few years ago before the 5th gen came out. It is rather sad. I am truly convinced now that no matter what GM brings to the table their will always be plenty of people complaining or ******* it for their own reasons. I guess thats what makes the world go round. I didnt like the GTO worth a ****. But you didnt see me ******* in post after post.
Havent even bothered posting here much lately. And that is a shame because this is one of the best places on the web to get quality information. It seems all I get from half the people on this board when talking about 5th gens is negativity and ignorance.
If I didnt know any better I would have thought I was on a mustang board half the time. Hell...some of you have even said it. I dont even own a camaro. What a shame. You dont see mustang owners talking like that to one another. I guess thats why their cars never went out of production. Maybe with some of the help of others on this board we can see the camaro get discontinued once again some day.
Last edited by UltraZLS1; 02-11-2011 at 10:46 PM.
02-12-2011 | 12:13 AM
#85
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 32,726
Likes: 1,836
From: Schiller Park, IL Member: #317
All these points about the cars future success with enthusiasts is just purely speculation. It is not something to hinge an argument on and I think it is rather silly.
I am also not seeing how a car being successful now translates into it being a failure later. Not anymore than how a car being a failure in the past translates into it being more of a success in the future. This is an odd point of view and a grasp if I have ever seen one. I can kind of see what you are saying but it is a very odd point of view. Just because the mainstream likes a car doesn't mean a guy like me will not. Not unless I couldnt have one and I was being immature and foolish about it.
I am also not seeing how a car being successful now translates into it being a failure later. Not anymore than how a car being a failure in the past translates into it being more of a success in the future. This is an odd point of view and a grasp if I have ever seen one. I can kind of see what you are saying but it is a very odd point of view. Just because the mainstream likes a car doesn't mean a guy like me will not. Not unless I couldnt have one and I was being immature and foolish about it.
I just used Corvette to illustrate how a car with low sales figures can still be very popular as it ages. When you take it out of context, then yes it's of little meaning by itself.
One day, I too will probably have a 5th gen (when my daily driver '02 car gets too worn out to be worth fixing), but you'll never here me bashing the 4th gens. Like I said earlier, I don't disrepect older things that I love simply because something new comes along. When all the trendy, modern people move on to 6th gens and start bashing the 5th gens, I'll probably be the one defending both the 4th AND 5th gens then.
You don't?
Well, we must live in very different parts of the world then. I know plenty of OHV 5.0 guys that have a great deal of contempt for the 4.6L.The fact is, not everyone is interested in change. Maybe the majority is, maybe some are even interested in constant change. Personally, I like to find things that make me happy and stick with them; but I realize that won't work for everyone.
Last edited by RPM WS6; 02-12-2011 at 12:47 AM.
02-12-2011 | 01:58 AM
#88
My 99 doesn't rattle at all though its not beat to death.
4th gens are crude cars compared to 5th gens. A 5th gen V8 may not be the killer in its class speed wise like the LS1 V8s but sans that its a nice ride,has nice brakes,much more modern car and much solid car. Yes visibility sucks in the rear,interior is kinda of cheap and bland, and its heavy but its better than nothing. Remember the 4th gens in regards to sales didn't really succeed. Most of us here don't care of about the LS1 Fbodies short comings and are for straight line kick *** speed/performance with mods etc and thats where the LS1 F body really shines!!
4th gens are crude cars compared to 5th gens. A 5th gen V8 may not be the killer in its class speed wise like the LS1 V8s but sans that its a nice ride,has nice brakes,much more modern car and much solid car. Yes visibility sucks in the rear,interior is kinda of cheap and bland, and its heavy but its better than nothing. Remember the 4th gens in regards to sales didn't really succeed. Most of us here don't care of about the LS1 Fbodies short comings and are for straight line kick *** speed/performance with mods etc and thats where the LS1 F body really shines!!
02-12-2011 | 02:56 AM
#89
Or, a pin about to pop a balloon. The OP was referring to the massive quality of the 5th gen versus the 4th gen, and I have to agree. It just looks overstuffed to me, in a way that none of the previous generations did.
I'm not a big fan of excessive retro styling though, I would have preferred to see more of a progression. Retro introduces a strange, alternate-universe-type problem...when they have to restyle the retro model, do they continue down the SAME path they did originally, 40 years ago? Do 6th gen Camaros look like 2nd gens? (and, more importantly, do 8th gens look like 4th gens?) Or do they take a different path? Mustang kind of did follow the '69 to '70 restyle in '09 to '10. Should be interesting to see what they do with the Camaro.
I'm not a big fan of excessive retro styling though, I would have preferred to see more of a progression. Retro introduces a strange, alternate-universe-type problem...when they have to restyle the retro model, do they continue down the SAME path they did originally, 40 years ago? Do 6th gen Camaros look like 2nd gens? (and, more importantly, do 8th gens look like 4th gens?) Or do they take a different path? Mustang kind of did follow the '69 to '70 restyle in '09 to '10. Should be interesting to see what they do with the Camaro.
02-12-2011 | 08:24 AM
#90
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 503
Likes: 0
From: Manchester , UK
well if I HAD TO get another car , and couldnt afford a vette , and wanted someting more refined and comfortable , Id actually prefer a 11" Stang 5.0 .. I liked the 5th gen camaro , I was happy to see it continue , Its a nice car , but Its kinda fat . I'll just clear up that Im not just bashing it , Im saying Id rather own a 4th gen .. I'll let you guys discuss the more complicated stuff (sales,etc ) but Id like to add that my 1998 car hasnt burnt the window motors yet , door panels arent cracked either
02-12-2011 | 11:43 AM
#91
I love how there are some financial geniuses who reach the conclusion that if one find this car hideous, then one must be not able to buy it, and that explains the opinion said guy (me in this case) has. Wonderful.
With that kind of argument in favor of the 5th gen we have officially reached the lowest possible level of discussion and to me it only reinforces the opinion that most guys who have bought the 5th gen did so just to be riding the "flavor of the month" and will, undoubtedly, move on to the next one and so the cycle continues. Are these guys really car enthusiasts? Not in my book. These just get car to be seen in it. No real passion for cars at all, not to mention POOR knowledge of car's history.
I could buy one of these 5th gens, I just would never do it because it looks and feels like a bloated pig. Plain. And. Simple. Also I dont need to discuss my line of work with ANYONE here.
I hope that when the hype fades away the 5th gens fall finally into real car guys, not primadonas with a desperate need to be seen.
Yes, I have reached my own conclusions in the subject just like some magically knew my finances and how some posted opinions as facts WITHOUT citing their "sources", just something like "Ive read several books", quite precise, huh? Laughable at best.
With that kind of argument in favor of the 5th gen we have officially reached the lowest possible level of discussion and to me it only reinforces the opinion that most guys who have bought the 5th gen did so just to be riding the "flavor of the month" and will, undoubtedly, move on to the next one and so the cycle continues. Are these guys really car enthusiasts? Not in my book. These just get car to be seen in it. No real passion for cars at all, not to mention POOR knowledge of car's history.
I could buy one of these 5th gens, I just would never do it because it looks and feels like a bloated pig. Plain. And. Simple. Also I dont need to discuss my line of work with ANYONE here.
I hope that when the hype fades away the 5th gens fall finally into real car guys, not primadonas with a desperate need to be seen.
Yes, I have reached my own conclusions in the subject just like some magically knew my finances and how some posted opinions as facts WITHOUT citing their "sources", just something like "Ive read several books", quite precise, huh? Laughable at best.
02-12-2011 | 12:19 PM
#92
I love how there are some financial geniuses who reach the conclusion that if one find this car hideous, then one must be not able to buy it, and that explains the opinion said guy (me in this case) has. Wonderful.
With that kind of argument in favor of the 5th gen we have officially reached the lowest possible level of discussion and to me it only reinforces the opinion that most guys who have bought the 5th gen did so just to be riding the "flavor of the month" and will, undoubtedly, move on to the next one and so the cycle continues. Are these guys really car enthusiasts? Not in my book. These just get car to be seen in it. No real passion for cars at all, not to mention POOR knowledge of car's history.
I could buy one of these 5th gens, I just would never do it because it looks and feels like a bloated pig. Plain. And. Simple. Also I dont need to discuss my line of work with ANYONE here.
I hope that when the hype fades away the 5th gens fall finally into real car guys, not primadonas with a desperate need to be seen.
Yes, I have reached my own conclusions in the subject just like some magically knew my finances and how some posted opinions as facts WITHOUT citing their "sources", just something like "Ive read several books", quite precise, huh? Laughable at best.
With that kind of argument in favor of the 5th gen we have officially reached the lowest possible level of discussion and to me it only reinforces the opinion that most guys who have bought the 5th gen did so just to be riding the "flavor of the month" and will, undoubtedly, move on to the next one and so the cycle continues. Are these guys really car enthusiasts? Not in my book. These just get car to be seen in it. No real passion for cars at all, not to mention POOR knowledge of car's history.
I could buy one of these 5th gens, I just would never do it because it looks and feels like a bloated pig. Plain. And. Simple. Also I dont need to discuss my line of work with ANYONE here.
I hope that when the hype fades away the 5th gens fall finally into real car guys, not primadonas with a desperate need to be seen.
Yes, I have reached my own conclusions in the subject just like some magically knew my finances and how some posted opinions as facts WITHOUT citing their "sources", just something like "Ive read several books", quite precise, huh? Laughable at best.
I was not grouping you into those that are jeoulous or what not.
Starting to lean that way now given the way you present yourself.
I just dont understand why people have to dog something so passionately if they care so little about it. The only reason one does such a thing is if they are threatened or jealous in some way. Or I guess it could be if one is immature and chooses to express opinions in such ways. Some people never reach the final level of mental reasoning. I guess thats ok also.
Why waste the time if you truly dont care? Beats me....
Last edited by UltraZLS1; 02-12-2011 at 12:25 PM.
02-12-2011 | 01:07 PM
#93
I was not grouping you into those that are jeoulous or what not.
Starting to lean that way now given the way you present yourself.
I just dont understand why people have to dog something so passionately if they care so little about it. The only reason one does such a thing is if they are threatened or jealous in some way. Or I guess it could be if one is immature and chooses to express opinions in such ways. Some people never reach the final level of mental reasoning. I guess thats ok also.
Why waste the time if you truly dont care? Beats me....
Starting to lean that way now given the way you present yourself.
I just dont understand why people have to dog something so passionately if they care so little about it. The only reason one does such a thing is if they are threatened or jealous in some way. Or I guess it could be if one is immature and chooses to express opinions in such ways. Some people never reach the final level of mental reasoning. I guess thats ok also.
Why waste the time if you truly dont care? Beats me....
It comes down to your immature and poorly sustainable argument in this discussion. It takes away from any credibility you may had in this thread.
You are just taking the easy way out but dont worry, what you wrote is there buddy. You took the level of the thread to whole new level, way down though.
Presenting myself? How about presenting yourself? The one genius who decided some who dont like the car do so because they cant afford it! Nice presentation, way to go!
As with most discussions here, when the "reasoning" starts to stink, stupidity flourishes.
02-12-2011 | 01:48 PM
#95
Oh, now you were not grouping me? What was the reason behind your post then? To group other guys? Whats the difference then?
It comes down to your immature and poorly sustainable argument in this discussion. It takes away from any credibility you may had in this thread.
You are just taking the easy way out but dont worry, what you wrote is there buddy. You took the level of the thread to whole new level, way down though.
Presenting myself? How about presenting yourself? The one genius who decided some who dont like the car do so because they cant afford it! Nice presentation, way to go!
As with most discussions here, when the "reasoning" starts to stink, stupidity flourishes.
It comes down to your immature and poorly sustainable argument in this discussion. It takes away from any credibility you may had in this thread.
You are just taking the easy way out but dont worry, what you wrote is there buddy. You took the level of the thread to whole new level, way down though.
Presenting myself? How about presenting yourself? The one genius who decided some who dont like the car do so because they cant afford it! Nice presentation, way to go!
As with most discussions here, when the "reasoning" starts to stink, stupidity flourishes.
WOW....your even worse than I thought. You just look for reasons to argue with people. I never said you specifically or made any comment that you could not afford the car.
thanks for proving my point!
Get back with me when you can have an intelligent discussion and not act like a child.
Last edited by UltraZLS1; 02-12-2011 at 02:01 PM.
02-12-2011 | 01:56 PM
#96
TECH Regular
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 464
Likes: 1
From: California
4th Gen FTMFW!!!!!!! jk, lol...this thread really has gotten out of control.
Bottom line is we need to hope GM continues to push to make these cars better and better and not just focus on trendy fads in an effort to pad sales.
Bottom line is we need to hope GM continues to push to make these cars better and better and not just focus on trendy fads in an effort to pad sales.
02-12-2011 | 03:52 PM
#97
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 32,726
Likes: 1,836
From: Schiller Park, IL Member: #317
I'm not bothered, threatened or jealous of 5th gens in any way, nor do I ever "bash" them. Truth is, they are certainly better than not having any Camaro at all (we need more OHV, V8, RWD 2-door cars; not less). Will I ever own one? Yeah, that could certainly happen. Will I ever love them as much as the 4th gens? No, most likely not. But, IMO, that does not equate to bashing at all, it's just my personal feelings for reasons I presented much earlier in this thread.
But on to the main point...why get involved.... well, for me it's mostly because I'm sick of the 4th gen bashing that seems to be popular amongst many 5th gen owners. I'm not pointing any fingers, but there is a big group of people around this site that seem to think there is NO reason to own a 4th gen unless you're too poor to buy something "newer/better", and that the only reason why 4th gen owners don't have a 5th gen is because they can't afford it - otherwise they too would own one. In some cases I'm sure this is correct, but it's certainly not true in all cases. Furthermore, I see a lot of people who's only 4th gen experience has been with high mileage, beat cars, which they then compare to a brand new 5th gen and wrongfully assume that all 4th gens were rattling worn out pieces of junk from day one. Again, I've been around long enough to know better.
So overall, my involvement has nothing to do with bashing 5th gens, it's only to defend 4th gens and point out why they are the preferred car *for some of us*.
Yeah, it seems to be headed down the road of personal attacks and loss of all meaningful discussion. I'll just lock it down if it gets much worse....
02-12-2011 | 04:01 PM
#98
I think there are two groups of "4th Gen Holdouts" that exist, and many of the 5th Gen guys feel insulted by one of the groups.
One group are current owners of 4th gens who bash the 5th gen repeatedly, primarily because they do not have the financial means to obtain one. I think there are many people on this site that are quick to bash anything that they don't own, and promote what they do own; that's a habit sometimes, when you've invested a lot of money in something. However, if someone were to say "I'll trade you my comparable 5th gen Camaro for your 4th gen" to this group of guys, they would take it in a heartbeat, and would subsequently jump on the 5th gen bandwagon.
The second group of guys, most notably like RPM WS6 and myself, admire the 5th gen for what it is, and respect the fact that GM is trying to make the Camaro appeal to the masses to promote financial gain for their company, but we feel as though our 4th gens are a better fit for our personality traits. We don't like owning things that are new and popular, and would rather be placed in a "niche" group that values unique ideas of the past, like the OHV V8's of a 4th gen, the rough and raw handling style, and the overall simplicity. If you were to offer your comparable 5th gen in trade for our clean 4th gens, we would say "No," instinctively. We (well, I at least!) still love the top dogs like the C6Z06 and ZR1 cars, even though they're new and modern, because they're not a dime a dozen, though.
That said, the 5th gen may appeal to guys like me after the "craze" is over; at the moment, however, I just don't consider the upgrade to one worthy of my investment, because it won't make me any happier than what I've currently got in the garage.
One group are current owners of 4th gens who bash the 5th gen repeatedly, primarily because they do not have the financial means to obtain one. I think there are many people on this site that are quick to bash anything that they don't own, and promote what they do own; that's a habit sometimes, when you've invested a lot of money in something. However, if someone were to say "I'll trade you my comparable 5th gen Camaro for your 4th gen" to this group of guys, they would take it in a heartbeat, and would subsequently jump on the 5th gen bandwagon.
The second group of guys, most notably like RPM WS6 and myself, admire the 5th gen for what it is, and respect the fact that GM is trying to make the Camaro appeal to the masses to promote financial gain for their company, but we feel as though our 4th gens are a better fit for our personality traits. We don't like owning things that are new and popular, and would rather be placed in a "niche" group that values unique ideas of the past, like the OHV V8's of a 4th gen, the rough and raw handling style, and the overall simplicity. If you were to offer your comparable 5th gen in trade for our clean 4th gens, we would say "No," instinctively. We (well, I at least!) still love the top dogs like the C6Z06 and ZR1 cars, even though they're new and modern, because they're not a dime a dozen, though.
That said, the 5th gen may appeal to guys like me after the "craze" is over; at the moment, however, I just don't consider the upgrade to one worthy of my investment, because it won't make me any happier than what I've currently got in the garage.
How about a look at the two cars from a different angle?
02-12-2011 | 04:11 PM
#99
Well, I know this reply wasn't directed specifically at me, but I'll present my reasoning for even getting involved in these discussions....
I'm not bothered, threatened or jealous of 5th gens in any way, nor do I ever "bash" them. Truth is, they are certainly better than not having any Camaro at all (we need more OHV, V8, RWD 2-door cars; not less). Will I ever own one? Yeah, that could certainly happen. Will I ever love them as much as the 4th gens? No, most likely not. But, IMO, that does not equate to bashing at all, it's just my personal feelings for reasons I presented much earlier in this thread.
But on to the main point...why get involved.... well, for me it's mostly because I'm sick of the 4th gen bashing that seems to be popular amongst many 5th gen owners. I'm not pointing any fingers, but there is a big group of people around this site that seem to think there is NO reason to own a 4th gen unless you're too poor to buy something "newer/better", and that the only reason why 4th gen owners don't have a 5th gen is because they can't afford it - otherwise they too would own one. In some cases I'm sure this is correct, but it's certainly not true in all cases. Furthermore, I see a lot of people who's only 4th gen experience has been with high mileage, beat cars, which they then compare to a brand new 5th gen and wrongfully assume that all 4th gens were rattling worn out pieces of junk from day one. Again, I've been around long enough to know better.
So overall, my involvement has nothing to do with bashing 5th gens, it's only to defend 4th gens and point out why they are the preferred car *for some of us*.
Yeah, it seems to be headed down the road of personal attacks and loss of all meaningful discussion. I'll just lock it down if it gets much worse....
I'm not bothered, threatened or jealous of 5th gens in any way, nor do I ever "bash" them. Truth is, they are certainly better than not having any Camaro at all (we need more OHV, V8, RWD 2-door cars; not less). Will I ever own one? Yeah, that could certainly happen. Will I ever love them as much as the 4th gens? No, most likely not. But, IMO, that does not equate to bashing at all, it's just my personal feelings for reasons I presented much earlier in this thread.
But on to the main point...why get involved.... well, for me it's mostly because I'm sick of the 4th gen bashing that seems to be popular amongst many 5th gen owners. I'm not pointing any fingers, but there is a big group of people around this site that seem to think there is NO reason to own a 4th gen unless you're too poor to buy something "newer/better", and that the only reason why 4th gen owners don't have a 5th gen is because they can't afford it - otherwise they too would own one. In some cases I'm sure this is correct, but it's certainly not true in all cases. Furthermore, I see a lot of people who's only 4th gen experience has been with high mileage, beat cars, which they then compare to a brand new 5th gen and wrongfully assume that all 4th gens were rattling worn out pieces of junk from day one. Again, I've been around long enough to know better.
So overall, my involvement has nothing to do with bashing 5th gens, it's only to defend 4th gens and point out why they are the preferred car *for some of us*.
Yeah, it seems to be headed down the road of personal attacks and loss of all meaningful discussion. I'll just lock it down if it gets much worse....
Thanks for an intelligent response.
I understand where you are coming from and thats cool with me.
And for the 1000x time. I have no problem with the 4th gen.
02-12-2011 | 04:44 PM
#100
But on to the main point...why get involved.... well, for me it's mostly because I'm sick of the 4th gen bashing that seems to be popular amongst many 5th gen owners. I'm not pointing any fingers, but there is a big group of people around this site that seem to think there is NO reason to own a 4th gen unless you're too poor to buy something "newer/better", and that the only reason why 4th gen owners don't have a 5th gen is because they can't afford it - otherwise they too would own one. In some cases I'm sure this is correct, but it's certainly not true in all cases. Furthermore, I see a lot of people who's only 4th gen experience has been with high mileage, beat cars, which they then compare to a brand new 5th gen and wrongfully assume that all 4th gens were rattling worn out pieces of junk from day one. Again, I've been around long enough to know better.
Essentially that's what I meant with my post. That particular post , about financial status, brought down the level of this discussion.
I will not post anything more here, useless and frankly this car does not merit a 10 page thread, IMO. If something some people should really inform better about their car of choice history.