Camaro SS vs. 335i
#41
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I don't care what you read in a magazine. I would actually be embarrassed to publicly admit that all my information came from a magazine lol. Saying it is not a performance car shows your lack of knowledge about cars in general. You've never driven one so your opinion is meaningless.
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One more opinion here from someone who has owned/driven all cars being compared. I am a mechanic at a Porsche/BMW dealer, so I've driven them all. I have owned 2 Ls1 Trans Ams and stock to stock, the 335 will wax them in all categories. On Thursday I drove an 07' Z06. It was an awesome car, one of my dream cars as a matter of fact, but if I had to drive something everyday, i'd pick the 335. Even a base 3 series is a better put together vehicle as far as fit and finish. As for the 335's power, it drastically underrated. We've seen dyno graphs of cars putting claimed flywheel power numbers at the wheels.
If your going to say the 335 is not a performance car because it's not fast enough, then I'd say a WS6 is not a performance car because it doesn't corner or stop well enough. It's all a matter of opinion and what your used to.
That being said I would love to own a new Camaro or Vette over the Beemer, simply for the potential factor. What I can to it matters to me more than what it comes with. But if I weren't going to touch it, I'd take the Beemer.
Just my .02
If your going to say the 335 is not a performance car because it's not fast enough, then I'd say a WS6 is not a performance car because it doesn't corner or stop well enough. It's all a matter of opinion and what your used to.
That being said I would love to own a new Camaro or Vette over the Beemer, simply for the potential factor. What I can to it matters to me more than what it comes with. But if I weren't going to touch it, I'd take the Beemer.
Just my .02
#44
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One more opinion here from someone who has owned/driven all cars being compared. I am a mechanic at a Porsche/BMW dealer, so I've driven them all. I have owned 2 Ls1 Trans Ams and stock to stock, the 335 will wax them in all categories. On Thursday I drove an 07' Z06. It was an awesome car, one of my dream cars as a matter of fact, but if I had to drive something everyday, i'd pick the 335. Even a base 3 series is a better put together vehicle as far as fit and finish. As for the 335's power, it drastically underrated. We've seen dyno graphs of cars putting claimed flywheel power numbers at the wheels.
If your going to say the 335 is not a performance car because it's not fast enough, then I'd say a WS6 is not a performance car because it doesn't corner or stop well enough. It's all a matter of opinion and what your used to.
That being said I would love to own a new Camaro or Vette over the Beemer, simply for the potential factor. What I can to it matters to me more than what it comes with. But if I weren't going to touch it, I'd take the Beemer.
Just my .02
If your going to say the 335 is not a performance car because it's not fast enough, then I'd say a WS6 is not a performance car because it doesn't corner or stop well enough. It's all a matter of opinion and what your used to.
That being said I would love to own a new Camaro or Vette over the Beemer, simply for the potential factor. What I can to it matters to me more than what it comes with. But if I weren't going to touch it, I'd take the Beemer.
Just my .02
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Last i checked i dont remember reading any magazines where bmw's outrun corvettes on tracks, wether we are talking 1/4 mile, autocross, skidpad or anything. Actually it seems in the last car and driver magazine i picked up, the 4300lb ctsv beat a new m3 around a race track. So why would i care anything about a bmw. It is not a performance car. It is a luxury sedan, and if i wanted one i would go after a cts-v not some slow bmw, no matter how light the steering is.
But to call BMWs slow is just a little misinfomred. They do focus more on handling. They are fun to drive, try it. And I have owned 3 4th gen Fbodies, 2 Rustangs, a GTO, a Duster 340 and a few other modded V8 cars. I was thinking Camaro, but now maybe a used C6. Maybe this would be a sounder financial move and probably more fun. After my 335 lease expires.
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I dislike those types of cars because of the types of people who drive them (majority). Now you guys are gonna say that douche bags drive f-bodys too but here in Miami 99% of people who drive BMW's, Mercedes, Lexus think that they are THE ****. I remember last semester I show up to my math lab and some girl tells me I have a nice car and i told she does too, just to be polite... not really of fan of how BMW's look.... anyways i tell her "You should tint it it will look really nice." and she says "Yeah right... Are you kidding me I want to be seen in that car." -_- ![GTFO](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/gtfoslap.gif)
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Last edited by Fraxum; 01-18-2009 at 12:44 PM.
#50
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But for me any car that can lift it's front wheels off the ground is a performance car too, no questions asked.
Last edited by Fraxum; 01-18-2009 at 12:57 PM.
#51
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Boostat4500, are you seriously trying to compare performance cars that were built a decade apart? Lets go back to the 1998 3 series, hell you can go to the 2001 where it had a whopping 225hp and ran high 14's. I think you have to take into account the time when the car was built for one thing. 2nd why are you talking about the interior quality, and how much better of a daily driver the car is, last i checked performance cars are measured by performance, and that is what they are built for. If you want to argue that the m series are performance cars then i will agree. I never said all bmw's were slow, but a 40k car that is supposedly built for performance should be faster. Besides the fact that i do not believe a 2008 bmw335 will wax a 10yr old 1998 m6 z28 in a straight line. Which is sad. When the new camaro's are out to buy and drive then you can compare the chassis and steering and whatever else. But until then the only car in the price range of the 335 that is a real performance car is a vette, and it crushes the 335 and the m3, it will probably beat an m5 m6 and anything else you can come up with that bmw makes. So what if the interior is plastic, the car was built for speed, and handling and it does those things very well hence the reason it is a performance car. **** the m3 cant beat a porky 4300lb caddy.
#52
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this is how i see it. when european companies come out with a car that is a better performance car then most of the american competitors then all the euro fans are performance oriented. but when they make a car that is slower and more expensive then its american competitors, the euro fans are simply luxury oriented. i like the new 335i a whole lot and the people on that forum arent too bad, a lot of them seem to respect the new camaro. but then theres always gonna be those stuck up bimmer guys. ill stick to my performance oriented chevys! anyways who needs triple stitched Moroccan imported alcantra leather with suede inserts. God forbid you dont have that and experience a bit of uncomfort
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I wasn't trying to compare the cars like that, just give my driving impression on each. And also to state that just because it isn't the fastest in a straight line, doesn't mean it's not a "performance" car. Everyone seems to associate performance with how fast it is. There's lots of different types of "performance". If all you care about is going straight, then any car that came stock with an LSx motor is the wrong starting point anyway, you should be building a rail or an old car that weighs a lot less. I mentioned interior quality and daily driveability because it was part of my driving impression, I'm sorry that offended you so much! As for the age difference, and I can only compare an M3 ( my dad has a 97' ) to a 4th gen, the BMW still wins everything but straight line. Speaking of which, unless a 98' Z28 is faster than an 01' WS6 or 01' SS Camaro, yes I do believe an 08' 335 will beat it in a straight line. I've driven them back to back for comparison. I can't wait to drive a new Camaro and see how it feels. I'd bet a lot of money however that the 335 will out perform everywhere but a straight line, and it should for 15k more!
I'm not trying to defend BMW or put down Chevy here, just givng some opinions, like everyone else. If I could afford to, I'd love to buy a new Camaro or Vette and mod the **** out of it. If I didn't have a baby on the way I'd have an order in right now for an Inferno Orange 6 speed. I've always loved the LSx platform cars, and always will!
Nwmembr19: You keep saying the 335 is not a performance car, have you actually driven one? I'll bet you'd be surprised how comperable it feels to your 01' Z06 when it was stock. Not as fast in a straight line, but closer than you'd think. The 335 instills an amazing amount of confidence when you start to push it.
O, and just for giggles since you brought up the Vette vs an M5 or M6, and how "fast" everything is, the BMW will win. If you remove the limiter they will both do 205 mph in bone stock form, which topps even the Z06. Personally, I'd still take the Z06 though if it were just a toy!
I'm not trying to defend BMW or put down Chevy here, just givng some opinions, like everyone else. If I could afford to, I'd love to buy a new Camaro or Vette and mod the **** out of it. If I didn't have a baby on the way I'd have an order in right now for an Inferno Orange 6 speed. I've always loved the LSx platform cars, and always will!
Nwmembr19: You keep saying the 335 is not a performance car, have you actually driven one? I'll bet you'd be surprised how comperable it feels to your 01' Z06 when it was stock. Not as fast in a straight line, but closer than you'd think. The 335 instills an amazing amount of confidence when you start to push it.
O, and just for giggles since you brought up the Vette vs an M5 or M6, and how "fast" everything is, the BMW will win. If you remove the limiter they will both do 205 mph in bone stock form, which topps even the Z06. Personally, I'd still take the Z06 though if it were just a toy!
Last edited by BOOSTAT4500; 01-19-2009 at 12:18 AM.
#56
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True, the quickest known track time on record for a pure bone stock LS1 C5 (non Z06) is a 12.6 at roughly 111mph.
C5 Z06s of course have gone 11.8s and even an 11.7 in stock trim.
Well in many cases the LS1 C5s are not a full 400 pounds lighter (even less than 150 pounds depending on which models/option packages you're comparing) than the LS1 F-bodies and secondly, well, they are faster than they are
as I'd noted above (12.6). ![Nod](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_nod.gif)
C5 Z06s of course have gone 11.8s and even an 11.7 in stock trim.
Well in many cases the LS1 C5s are not a full 400 pounds lighter (even less than 150 pounds depending on which models/option packages you're comparing) than the LS1 F-bodies and secondly, well, they are faster than they are
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Record as far as I know for a stock F-body is 12.8 @ 108mph. (someone may know of a different time but that's the only one I know of by a reputable source.)
#57
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Boostat4500, this will be the last thing i post about the car because it's obvious you hold your performance cars to a lower standard than I. But i will say that you are no expert and your opinion really matters very little as to wether you think it handles well or you think it is faster, although your exact words were it will wax a ls1 f body. And because you have done no comparison tests between them, then it is only your opinion.
Now with that said, I never said anything about how performance cars are only fast in a straight line. I used examples like zo6's or vipers, as real performance cars, and they excel in all categories. For a comparison we will use a racetrack. This is where performance cars are measured, and it takes into account all aspects of performance, and that only. I will use the racetrack where everyone tests their cars, the Nurburgring.
BMW 335i E92 Coupe 8:26
2008 Chevrolet Cobalt SS 8:22
Holy **** that bmw is a badass performance car. On a race track where a couple of seconds is an eternity the ss cobalt lays the smack down. I wouldnt rank the bmw too high on the ladder of performance cars. Compares to my zo6 when it was stock i hardly think so.
Chevrolet Corvette C5 Z06 7:56
Bad comparison. I dont care what it feels like, what the interior looks like, how well it is put together I care how the car performs and for 40k it is a joke. The cobalt comes in 20k cheaper. Most magazine times i looked up said it runs the 1/4 in 13.4-13.6 at 104-106 basically stock ls1 f body times. They might be alittle faster than that, but so are ls1 f bodies, so the way i look at it it's a toss up, but far from waxing.
And lastly what you said about top speed really means nothing. Top speed has more to do with gear ratios than anything else. I have topped out my car at what looked like 189 (very smooth at that speed by the way), The only reason why because that is the end of 5th gear, and 6th is nothing but a double overdrive which is way to steep. The bmw's have a 7 speed, so they have an extra gear they can use for top speed and still have decent acceleration time. It means nothing. Anyways i am done arguing because you have no proof that the car performs well unless you think that loosing to a cobalt around a race track, even though the cobalt would lose in a straightline(which shows i'm not comparing acceleration), is good performance.
Now with that said, I never said anything about how performance cars are only fast in a straight line. I used examples like zo6's or vipers, as real performance cars, and they excel in all categories. For a comparison we will use a racetrack. This is where performance cars are measured, and it takes into account all aspects of performance, and that only. I will use the racetrack where everyone tests their cars, the Nurburgring.
BMW 335i E92 Coupe 8:26
2008 Chevrolet Cobalt SS 8:22
Holy **** that bmw is a badass performance car. On a race track where a couple of seconds is an eternity the ss cobalt lays the smack down. I wouldnt rank the bmw too high on the ladder of performance cars. Compares to my zo6 when it was stock i hardly think so.
Chevrolet Corvette C5 Z06 7:56
Bad comparison. I dont care what it feels like, what the interior looks like, how well it is put together I care how the car performs and for 40k it is a joke. The cobalt comes in 20k cheaper. Most magazine times i looked up said it runs the 1/4 in 13.4-13.6 at 104-106 basically stock ls1 f body times. They might be alittle faster than that, but so are ls1 f bodies, so the way i look at it it's a toss up, but far from waxing.
And lastly what you said about top speed really means nothing. Top speed has more to do with gear ratios than anything else. I have topped out my car at what looked like 189 (very smooth at that speed by the way), The only reason why because that is the end of 5th gear, and 6th is nothing but a double overdrive which is way to steep. The bmw's have a 7 speed, so they have an extra gear they can use for top speed and still have decent acceleration time. It means nothing. Anyways i am done arguing because you have no proof that the car performs well unless you think that loosing to a cobalt around a race track, even though the cobalt would lose in a straightline(which shows i'm not comparing acceleration), is good performance.
#58
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bmws are extremely overrated. that said, they still are very good cars, just not as good as many people think.
theres no question in my mind the camaro ss will be a much better all around car. the engine and tranny and all should be very reliable, and i'll bet it will either out handle, or equal the 335. its suspension was designed on the nurgurgring, probably by the same people that made the cts-v the world's fastest sedan.
theres no question in my mind the camaro ss will be a much better all around car. the engine and tranny and all should be very reliable, and i'll bet it will either out handle, or equal the 335. its suspension was designed on the nurgurgring, probably by the same people that made the cts-v the world's fastest sedan.
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I drove a 335 recently and it was a very nice car, tight, predictable handling and great power in a stock vehicle. Exactly what I would expect from it. I don't purchase Foreign cars since I prefer supporting American jobs, but even if this was an American car I could not imagine buying one. Can't quite put my finger on it but there is no attraction and no soul whats so ever in BMW products, except maybe the M1 or the Isetta (Gag). It's almost as though they are a better handling, more powerful version of a Honda Accord.
Camaro vs BMW is like comparing a dirt bike to a cruiser.
Camaro vs BMW is like comparing a dirt bike to a cruiser.