badaSS346

iTrader: (4)

What GM did is build a car for the masses. For what it is, it really has the ideal balance of everything. It has a better stock balance of ride comfort, handling, straight line performance, creature comforts and overall build quality. Sure they could have lightened it up if they wanted to to satisfy the relativly small part of the market made up of die hard perfomance nuts. Or make a great all around car that granted is not ideal for street rodding (stock) but a good foundation. Let some of the masterminds get their hands on the car and find out where wieght can come out from and what little tricks will make it faster. Again like i said earlier...it all depends what you are looking for. Go fast and dont care about ride quality or build quality since you will be replacing everything anyway 4th gen. Great all around car that will be fast as hell...5th gen.

ChocoTaco369

The new Camaro is a heavy pig. People aren't seeing great times out of it so far because, well, it's not much better than a 4th gen in terms of speed. Think about it: It has 80 horsepower more and runs similar ET's to a 4th gen. That's unacceptable. The frame of this car should be significantly smaller. Instead, it's a huge boat. The massive amount of weight this car is carrying will only make it harder and harder to get faster, too, as weight becomes more and more of a problem the faster you go. It's a better made car than the 4th gens for sure, but the 4th gens are a much better platform for the 1/4 mile and they always will be because of the huge weight of the 5th gen.

The 5th gen Camaro is the Camaro for the metrosexual muscle car fan.

R.E.double.D.

i agree once people start ripping into this the whole overall look on the 5th gen will elevate even from those who swore to never like it ! ! !

rayhawk

Wouldn't you rather they build a car that they can sell enough of to keep around? Nobody wants this car to be the weight it is, but I would rather have the option of getting a new, fun to drive, reasonably priced car than no Camaro at all. It will never be as great on the 1/4 mile as the 4th gen but at least it is back and hopefully here to stay.

bjjblackbelt

well you must note that all the muscle cars of 2010 weigh as much as an abrams tank so yeah they have good hp but they are heavier than a 1 ton dually.... the vette is the only real sports car "muscle car" that is american in my opinion, its light, fast, can handle good, and has high hp

hell, if they keep making muscle cars the way they are by 2015 the camaro will weigh 5900lbs and they will have to put diesels in them so they have enough torque to pull their heavy *** from red light to red light

JayplaySS

iTrader: (15)

With 480rwhp a 3200lb C6 will trap 125-130 mph and everywhere in between. Now a 3900lb Camaro may have a hard time trapping even 120 mph if you follow GT500/Termi weight/trap. I would be really concerned about how it will fare on a roll even with cam/full bolt-on LS3. Otherwise, I like the car.

LS1Z28-00

iTrader: (8)

450RWHP should be very easy out of the new camaro. Most 450RWHP terminators with a good driver run 10.9-11.5 @118-123 MPH. So i see a strong aftermarket for the camaros being as the two cars weight close to the same.

ChocoTaco369

Two things wrong with your statement:

-"Nobody wants this car to be the weight it is"
-"Reasonably priced car"

NOBODY wants this car to be that heavy. That means they should have cut back on the weight.

The Camaro is overpriced. Period. It should not be this expensive.

If the Camaro was put on a smaller frame, it would be lighter and less expensive. Classic GM, screwing up as usual. This car will sell well at first because of the anticipation. Then, it'll probably fizzle out because it was ultimately done all wrong. It looks like a plastic toy, it's too big and it's too heavy. The die-hards will get their cars, and they're the ones biting first. After the die-hards get their cars, who is left to buy them? It doesn't appeal well enough for the masses. Once the hysteria dies down, I predict a lot of 5th gen Camaros sitting on dealer lots...if GM dealers are still around by then, that is.

$10,000 more expensive than a 4th gen, 80 more horsepower, worse fuel economy, no significant increases in speed. What the hell were the past eight years for? I understand that GM wanted a better handling, quieter, better made car, but seriously, Ford did it for 500 lbs less. Ford nailed it with the Mustang and kept the weight AND price down. GM failed. HARD.

JayplaySS

iTrader: (15)

This isnt to bicker but Termi's with IRS weigh 3600+/- and the Camaro will top 3900+. The few guys that I know with 450-470rwhp Cobras actually trap 117-119 but there are a few who do better. I would also bet the Cd favors the Cobra over the Camaro. That's my guess based on frontal area and I could be wrong. It's still gotta be as bad as the Cobra @ .36

We'll see very soon since there are guys tearing into them right now. I know they are trapping 109-111 stock with 370rwhp (depending on the shop) so that is actually slower than stock Termi traps @ thier same rwhp level due to the weight. Way too heavy for me. They look amazing though.

I Go To Costco

iTrader: (1)

The masses LOVE the new Camaro. I don't know about you but I frequent way more forums than just LS1tech, and the first thing people criticize about my car is how cheap it is; plastic interior, plastic exterior, etc. You are one of the few who believes the new Camaro isn't better in nearly every way.

GM doesn't give that much of a **** how much this car weighs, they're worried more about the Camaro stepping on the Corvette's toes and sales. A new platform just for the Camaro would have cost a lot of money and time for R&D. IMO the Kappa platform is way too small for the Camaro, so they went with the next best thing, the Zeta.

Camaro hype or not, this new Camaro has 14,000 pre-orders and counting - and on other forums there are people who are drooling over the new Camaro.... people who have NEVER drooled over any GM car before, let alone the 4th gen F-Body. Your lost sale translates into 5 new potential sales for the new Camaro.

The absolute fact of the matter is that the 5th gen is better than the 4th gen at pretty much everything. It offers way more, its a car meant for the 21st century and not the 20th. Who the hell thought you could possibly get Bluetooth, HIDs, ambient interior lighting and heated leather seats on a Camaro? I still like C6s a lot more, but comparing the price of new vs. new the Camaro is a LOT more car for the money IMHO.

If you really think the Mustang is such a better deal then go buy it, I think its a great deal also. And if you think that the 5th gen Camaro is for metrosexuals, you're merely overcompensating for your insecurities that the 5th gen is better in nearly every way and just that you probably can't afford it. I'm sorry but I don't think I can ever take someone seriously if they think lowering springs is a useless modification. A car is much, much, much more than simply how well it performs in a straight line and how heavy it weighs.

Besides, overpriced and overweight is the new Challenger. With the 370 horsepower 5.7 HEMI its a freaking mid 14-second car!

silver02ss

that was a good read ....and i have no clue how old this post is so forgive me if i've resurrected an ancient post

ChocoTaco369

I don't like the new Camaro, the Mustang, the Challenger or the Charger. Three are fat heavy pigs and one is underpowered and boring to me as it's been out so long. The only exciting car on the market IMO is the Corvette. There's not a single car in production right now other than the Corvette that I like, well, besides the CTS. Everything else is a snooze, including the overweight, overpriced new Camaro. I'm not "overcompensating" for anything. GM just doesn't make many exciting cars anymore and all the imports out there look the same for the most part. The world of cars is becoming less and less unique and more and more boring.

Strider74

I agree Choco, I drive my Camaro for its performance on the road day in and day out on my highway commute. My car is bone stock (plus free mods) and has been a daily driver in MN for the last 10 years it still has no rust, runs great and has been paid off for years. I want nothing more then my next car to be a better performer then my current one.

I just can't see dumping $30k on a car that gets lower gas mileage and is (for all real purposes) the same speed. For $30k I could get a used C5 or C6 easily (and almost have the same rear seat room really) I bought my wife a SRT 8 Charger and I guarantee that it could run door to door with the new Camaro with the times I have seen so far. (yes I know SRT8's sticker about $10k more then the SS)

The point is that when I look at what GM has to offer today I always end up looking online for used cars that are more exciting to me and often far less $$. What happened to the days when the dealership had truly exciting new offerings.

scottp999

Interesting thread. I can't wait to see what the Camaro does in the 1/4 mile with some mild modification.

For my current car, they top out around 390rwhp on 93 octane, full bolt on + tune, and weight about 3490lbs with some minor weight reduction changes (battery, wheel/tire swap, exhaust). Meth kit to come out soon will put it at about 435 whp with 91/93 octane.

Can't wait to see some camaros around and modded this summer!

rayhawk

How is my statement wrong if you are agreeing that nobody wants this car to be this heavy? It is my opinion that from an engineering/economical standpoint, this platform was the best option, or else we would not have the car at all. They could not justify the money to develop a dedicated platform. Maybe a 6th gen if we are lucky. The car would be more expensive if it had a unique chassis, so there goes that argument.

As to the price, look at everything on the car, they are priced competitively. Actually you get quite a bit for your money. If you don't want to buy it-or anything else for that matter, that is certainly your choice. Many people will buy this car, and believe me that very very few of them will be able to tell you how much it weighs.

The Mustang weighs 300lbs less, and they have a dedicated platform because they have a car that they know they can sell enough of per year to maintain that. GM is just getting back in this market, and they need a known quantity before they can go this route, like the Corvette. Ford certainly did'nt have to invest nearly as much in one shot, they have been able to continue to refine the Mustang. Do you believe the Mustang is faster than the new Camaro? I think if they had "nailed it" then they would be a bit closer in performance than they are.

rayhawk

Are you that surprised that a Corvette is a faster and more exciting car to drive than a Camaro?

Casper9T9

iTrader: (1)

This thread is hilarious. To summarize: All 4th gen LS1s run 12s bone stock. The 5th gen runs 13.1s, so it sucks. The 5th gen is heavy, so it sucks. The 5th gen costs over $30K, so it sucks. The quarter mile is the only measure of performance, and the 5th gen is heavy...and doesn't run 12s...like all 4th gens, therefore it sucks.

CTSV05

Well, many of you here make valid points. Hell I think damn near every car worth having is overpriced!

Lets face it, these new cars will run great once modded, look at the GTO, the V, etc...

I saw My first one in person yesterday and I have to say, it was one of the most beautiful cars I've ever seen in person! We had an '05 V and I loved it, but the Camaro is right on and no, I am not a metrosexual, Ty, I race a 10 sec S-10, does it have flaws, what car doesnt?

I will be doing everything in My power to buy one as soon as I can, thats all I can say.

TT632

iTrader: (3)

My main complaint is also with the weight and the size. A good percentage of the weight can be put square on the shoulders of the Government and the Insurance companies. They mandate crash testng and air bags I would never opt to have on my vehicle. The size we can blame on GM and the market; the trend has been going towards larger vehicles up until last year, and GM like all of of the manf have been making their vehicles larger.

I Go To Costco

iTrader: (1)

To me the new Camaro represents something different from almost anything else out there... available for right around $30,000, with a V8 with relatively good handling, and runs low-mid 13-second 1/4 times. That leaves the Mustang GT and Camaro SS. Meanwhile if you want a V6 RWD sports car, there's a bunch to choose from; BMW, Hyundai, Nissan/Infiniti and you could even say Chevy offers their own (Camaro V6) but the point is a V8 powered sports car is rare for under $35,000.

Comparing a new car vs used based on price alone is unfair.... you can get a years-old used car for much less than it was new, but on a new car there's relatively little room to go down in price.

Plus we're arguing over a few MPG difference in fuel economy? Is this LS1tech or Priustech?