I culdnt agree more. thing shuld get better with time. its like saying that leaf springs are good engough because they do the job and are cheaper than springs and shocks setup. that just isnt true! also look at the way GM and others still make their V8's im still waiting for gm to make ohv engines becouse even tough they have much more things that can make more HP and maintanance is easyer

i have often shaken my head when going over rough ground and thought to myself "well the ride culd be a bit better" one good 2 or 3 gear rev puts a smile back on my face but it still isnt an excuse for this rough ride.

also just becouse roads generaly are different in the US than the rest of the world, does that give american car makers an exuse for making lesser susspensions? also US carmakers are a very special manufacturer they are loosing allot of buisnes by not looking at the rest of the world as potential buyers, just look at the japs they sell obseen amount of their cars in europe

 

I know plenty of people here have wished they had IRS when they've something like hit a bump hard during a corner.

I know I have.

Bring on the IRS, it will make for a better car.

 

No, I really don't. I have some anger toward those Americans, especially magazine writers, who worship at the feet of the attitudes of European driving ideas. Don't get me wrong; the conditions there have spurred the production some truly great cars, but America is a different place. We need different things in our cars. (not totally different!)

I'm all for transplanting some European auto trends here... but not for blindly embracing all of them. Like their obsession with HP/liter, for example, which is utter nonsense.

You misunderstand. I wasn't criticizing that attitude; I was taking it as a given. I meant if you wanted better handling above and beyond the normal take-it-for-granted idea that new cars should be better. Nothing at all wrong with that!

LOL, I'd rather not. I moved to where I live in part because the roads are so nice here. But even when I lived up north, if the going got bumpy, I blamed the roads, not my car. And it never got too bumpy for me, except when the roads were clearly in total disrepair... to the extent that no way was the car itself responsible for it.

Even then, I didn't think to myself "ouch, this ride is harsh." I thought: "Man, this crap could damage my car!"

 

Dude, are you just quoting Car and Driver? Have you actually driven those two cars?!?

 

The ignorance of this post is astounding. I can only assume that by "ohv" he meant "ohc." And if so, that's total BS. OHV > OHC. Anyone who says OHV = "old" is as wrong as wrong can be.

That's one reason I hate Euro-worshippers. They're the same people who created the myth that OHV = old. And its corollary, that HP/liter means anything at all.

 

Yeah i ment over head cam i was confusing car motor terms with 2t dirtbike terms. i see when reading trhu the post again that i was in a bit of a hurry like "make ohv engines becouse even tough they have much more things that can make more HP and maintanance is easyer" what i ment to say is "make ohc engines becouse even though they have much more things that can break they have the posibility of better hp and are easyer to maintain"

but dont even try to tell anyone that 4 valves per cylender or 5 for that matter dont have the possability of better flow than 2 valves. and yes pushrods are old tecnology but not nessecarily an awfull one. the few times that i see american engines use over head cams for example the 4cam corvette and the doch mustang i always see much more decent hp numers than their pushrod bretherin.

now on to the fact that your are saying thateuropeans are fixated on hp perL is just not true. i think you are confused with the japs they have hp per L! most proper euro cars have big engines with medum hp. for example Benz audi BMW, jaguar, aston marin etc. and dont even tink i like cars with big hp/L cuse i dont! i just imported a 4gen overseas becouse i love driving these cars

 

Yeah, peak flow.

And OHC is older.

Um, no. OHC mustangs < LS1. Pushrod engines have many advantages over OHC that are not commonly known.

Take this discussion HERE: https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...44#post4901644

No thread-jacking.

Oh, yes it is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CTIx...ear%20solstice

No less than Jeremy Clarkson rejects the Solstice as rubbish on no other basis than it doesn't make enough HP/L. Which is nonsense. For all he knows, its engine makes more HP/lb than the supposedly more impressive engines he's comparing it to.

Also watch how the whole crowd laughs.

I like Clarkson, but in this case he gets the big thumbs down for ricer math.

 

no 4 valves flow or have the posibility to flow better period. its a simple diameter eqation as the valves cover more part of the head and are able to put aut more air mixture. "Um, no. OHC mustangs < LS1" yes you are right i was actualy talking about the 32valve fourcam mustang. possibly not even then a match for the ls1 but it has 1100cc less also just look at the 32v corvette with some 375hp from a 350cid engine thats wasnt possible without some big changes to the lt1 at the time

i enjoy top gear and clarkson but most of the things said there are a load of BS and as a juge of whats good and whats bad i dont take clarksons rewievs serious. i still remember his coment on the Corvette's suspension "a vietnamies horsecart suspension" i belive it was called.

 

but about the irs vs solid. you arent completely wrong. it had no say in my interest in buying my 4gen if it had irs or not but it wuld have been terrific if it wuld have had one. and if i was buying a new one for the price that the new camaro is projected at i wuld like to have a IRS in it

 

Two things, I can't control the roads. Second my trans am handles like crap, and the bonneville is fine on the same stretch of road. The bonneville is 14 years old with 202500 miles on it, the trans am is a garage queen and was bought new. So while the road are inferior to yours, it is because they are heavily traveled, and all the tax dollars in the world can do only so much.

 

There's more to it than that, and let's take it to the other thread.

Possibly not a match for the LS1? Hah! There's no possibly about it. And with the second part, you're getting into HP/L which is meaningless. If you want to discuss this, let's take it to the other thread.

...and yet he loves the viper, LOL.

 

you can get more hp then anyone normal person or even most dragsters would ever need out of two valves. 4 or 5 valves do have some advantages but they also have some shortcomings to the pushrod setup. one being weight, another being more **** to break, a harder to setup and work on, also cost, and $$ to make faster instead of one cam you gotta buy 4, instead of 16 valves you gotta buy 32 etc. there advantages are less spring pressure needed, more durability on the valve seats etc. i see them as equal, all things considered. personally i wouldnt mind having irs. if the new camaro has solid axle i wouldnt mind either. acourding to my magazine's there still debating on irs or solid axle, the irs was the first choice, but theres alot of debating going on... my only complaint about the factory axle's would be strenght. not if they are independent or solid. the best dirtbikes have 5 valves, but they also have very limited space for the amount of power needed. i would really like irs for dd car or if i was a budget buyer(v6) where the solid would serve no purpose other then maybe alil $ i would want the irs. solid acourding to what ive read. is better for drag racing and braking effectifness though.i would think most current f body owners think those are very important attributes. i want a camaro thats going to beat a mustang gt500 in a race with nothing done to it, just like all the other camaro's year for year... just more hp (500hp to fords supercharged 470) isnt always enough. my moms 300c has more hp then my car... my car makes a joke of its efforts. most cars have more hp then my dirtbike, and roughly 70% of cars on the road would loose to a race to 80mph against my 50hp dirtbike. i say gm needs to make some good sales to keep camaros alive. if that means more little v6's. then i could care less, atleast it would look good instead of seeing just rice on the road. and a 240hp v6 isnt too bad of a jump over the 4th gen base v6's at 195? the 3.8l in the 4th gens wasn't a slouch in my opinion. not a fast car by any means, but not slow compared to the majority of japanese cars.

 

Don't forget that the same suspension that makes it a wallowing boatlike grandpa car is what makes it tolerable on those roads. Oh, and tires have a lot to do with it, too. Fat performance tires are notorious for "following grooves in the road."

Just putting that out there. While IRS might help, being a performance car, nothing's going to make it take the potholes like your bonneville.

Nah, it has more to do with the lack of winter here. No freezing = no cracking.

 

yes i agree let take this discusion to a other place. i was only meaning that if the ls1 had 24 valves a stock 350hp to wheels culd be a reality

 

Don't forget that the solid axle works like a seesaw. No matter how much dampening you apply. One side goes up the other goes down.

 

Done.

 

Please make it IRS.

DEAR GOD MAKE IT IRS!

I think if you want soild thats great, go buy one for your car. IRS is a better setup for the street and normal drivers, racers should have to take the extra step, not the normal everyday driver.

 

If you want to handle buy a vette. I think that they should make Camaro with solid and GTO with IRS. Since the GTO will probably only be sold in high performance versions. Where the Camaro will be available in lesser versions, most of which will be V6s marketed towards a younger crowd.

Since V6 versions are what keeps this kind of car alive. IRS does alot of things that isn't needed. It weighs more, it costs more, its less efficient (which means worse gas milage). Therefore GM would be stupid if they did put IRS in it.

I have a Camaro and a CTS-V. I don't road race and I rarely go to a dragstrip, but I could only wish that I didn't have to worry about tearing rear ends out of the CTS-V. The damn thing wheelhops all over the road if the tires spin at all. And I have aftermarket bracing in place that is designed to reduce wheelhop.

The average person who buys a V8 muscle car the only racing they'll ever do is just a short burst on the highway or at a stop light. IRS isn't needed there.

The ride quality is the only plus that I see for IRS. It's a very small plus and to me it doesn't do enough to out weigh it negatives for the common car.

Buy a used vette if you want to road race. Its lighter, better balanced, still cool as hell, and they're getting relatively cheap.

 

I think that the base model and even the Z28 model should have the solid rear. Price is going to be a big issue with this car, throw on a bunch of things that the consumer might not know about or care about and jack the price up and the car wont sell. But if IRS is offered as an option or included in like the SS package or something then it might be the best of both worlds, because then only the people that know or care about IRS can get it and people who are trying to get the car on a budget can do so as wel. Thats what i think...

 

i've been a drag racer forever but autocrossing is a blast. i'm fairly new to autocrossing and i really enjoy it. at first i was against the irs, but the irs is very streetable. in our 05 gto the car handles great on the street and did excellent at an autocross i just got to do. at the drag strip its pretty miserable with the 6 speed. the car wheel hops even with the bfg drag radials, it does have a sweet spot but is hard to find. the bad part about the solid rears like in the 4th gen is that most drag racers usually change them out anyway. i would have to say let the car come with irs and hopefully a soild rear can be offered in the aftermarket. my reasons would be to have the car sell more with the ride of irs that the common shopper would be looking for. i kind of already believe its gonna come with the irs, no biggie i can deal with it. i did get to talk to the BMR guy at the thunder shootout in 04. their gto is a 10 sec car and if im right it was only about 1,500 to eliminate wheel hop. if it does eliminate it completely and the rear can handle the power I guess were not too bad off.