"Why the New Camaro Will Fail"?
07-05-2006, 07:58 PM
#81
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Originally Posted by 69mach
Wow you really are SLOW 
Nobody ever said the 427 in a camaro had no history. I said the NAME will sale better to a BROAD range of people. Me and everyone on this post know that if you were to go out in public and ask a random group of people if they have ever heard of........ a COPO ZL1 or Shelby GT500? Almost everyone will know what a Shelby GT500 is over a COPO ZL1, but what do I know 
Nobody ever said the 427 in a camaro had no history. I said the NAME will sale better to a BROAD range of people. Me and everyone on this post know that if you were to go out in public and ask a random group of people if they have ever heard of........ a COPO ZL1 or Shelby GT500? Almost everyone will know what a Shelby GT500 is over a COPO ZL1, but what do I know 
07-05-2006, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by 91RS
If you go into a group of normal people, 95% will not know what either are, however, if you ask a group of people who like cars but don't know a whole lot about them (maybe they can change their own oil and that's about it), they would probably know the GT500 over a COPO.
07-11-2006, 11:43 PM
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Just had to post me being the Ford guy that I am...
1)I agree mustangs are everywhere. But most are plan jane. To me a lowered mustang with tint, rims, and a few cosmetic mods stands out a lot more than a stock SS or T/A. Even though the SS and T/A look almost perfect from the factory minus a few small details.
2) 4th gen's get great gas mileage...for a high performance V8. Me and a buddy of mine took a trip to Tuscalosa a while back and he pulled off 30 MPG and I got a tad over 28 MPG.
3) C6 Z06 are supercars in my book.
4) Ford GT's aren't stripped down race cars...they come with A/C, power door locks, stereo, and all that jazz.
5)"Cobra vs. Vette"...sales magazines and should be the only reason for that comparison...apples and oranges.
6) LS1 F-Bodies aren't all mighty God in stock form. They mod well, get good gas mileage, and are quick. But there are just as fast and faster. When the mach was stock I raced my buddy in his 01 Z28 and it was literally a photo finish on several occasions.I know ford was a day late and a dollar short by putting the Mach and T. Cobra out a year late, but hey, you don't buy a car to compete one year now do you? That's why you've got to mod to get faster.
7) Evan Smith got a 12.257 @ 3950lb...er...117.18mph (2.11 60-foot) bone stock. The GT500 is a hoss in more than one way, unfortunatly. I don't know the "specs" for the next gen Camaro but I hope it doen't get close to that weight wise.
8) The reason the GTO flopped was b/c I still see a grand prix/G6/GTO come up behind me on the street and I have to take a 2nd or 3rd look to figure out which it is...who designed that thing? But in their defense they are fun to mess with and they don't sound half bad stock.EDIT: They have improved the GTO somewhat with the hood.
9)Ever heard the phrase "Don't write checks your body can't cash!" Well, don't place bets on a car that might not be able to produce. Okay...that might be stretching it a little. But still I can't stand to see all this "The new camaro is gonna spank any new mustangs butt!!!" business. I'd say there's about a 50% chance you're wrong slick.
10) 4.6's suck like a hoover when it comes to working on them and modding. Headers...the pain an agony I see when I think about doing that again. Cams...yeah all 4 of them installed for a little better than 2 grand.
11) What the poop IS a COPO ZL1???
12) I would much rather have an SS cruising to my one side and a T/A to the other, with a GTO, Charger, and Challenger pulling up the rear as opposed to a Civic, S2000, w/e that Toyota thing is called, etc. Actually I would rather be cruising with a T/A and SS than I would two more stangs. I mean a V8 powered Ford, Pontiac, and Chevy...the only thing more American than that is red, white, and blue!!!
1)I agree mustangs are everywhere. But most are plan jane. To me a lowered mustang with tint, rims, and a few cosmetic mods stands out a lot more than a stock SS or T/A. Even though the SS and T/A look almost perfect from the factory minus a few small details.
2) 4th gen's get great gas mileage...for a high performance V8. Me and a buddy of mine took a trip to Tuscalosa a while back and he pulled off 30 MPG and I got a tad over 28 MPG.
3) C6 Z06 are supercars in my book.
4) Ford GT's aren't stripped down race cars...they come with A/C, power door locks, stereo, and all that jazz.
5)"Cobra vs. Vette"...sales magazines and should be the only reason for that comparison...apples and oranges.
6) LS1 F-Bodies aren't all mighty God in stock form. They mod well, get good gas mileage, and are quick. But there are just as fast and faster. When the mach was stock I raced my buddy in his 01 Z28 and it was literally a photo finish on several occasions.I know ford was a day late and a dollar short by putting the Mach and T. Cobra out a year late, but hey, you don't buy a car to compete one year now do you? That's why you've got to mod to get faster.
7) Evan Smith got a 12.257 @ 3950lb...er...117.18mph (2.11 60-foot) bone stock. The GT500 is a hoss in more than one way, unfortunatly. I don't know the "specs" for the next gen Camaro but I hope it doen't get close to that weight wise.
8) The reason the GTO flopped was b/c I still see a grand prix/G6/GTO come up behind me on the street and I have to take a 2nd or 3rd look to figure out which it is...who designed that thing? But in their defense they are fun to mess with and they don't sound half bad stock.EDIT: They have improved the GTO somewhat with the hood.
9)Ever heard the phrase "Don't write checks your body can't cash!" Well, don't place bets on a car that might not be able to produce. Okay...that might be stretching it a little. But still I can't stand to see all this "The new camaro is gonna spank any new mustangs butt!!!" business. I'd say there's about a 50% chance you're wrong slick.
10) 4.6's suck like a hoover when it comes to working on them and modding. Headers...the pain an agony I see when I think about doing that again. Cams...yeah all 4 of them installed for a little better than 2 grand.
11) What the poop IS a COPO ZL1???
12) I would much rather have an SS cruising to my one side and a T/A to the other, with a GTO, Charger, and Challenger pulling up the rear as opposed to a Civic, S2000, w/e that Toyota thing is called, etc. Actually I would rather be cruising with a T/A and SS than I would two more stangs. I mean a V8 powered Ford, Pontiac, and Chevy...the only thing more American than that is red, white, and blue!!!
Last edited by Derk 2k3 M1; 07-12-2006 at 06:31 AM.
07-12-2006, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Derk 2k3 M1
Just had to post me being the Ford guy that I am...
1)I agree mustangs are everywhere. But most are plan jane. To me a lowered mustang with tint, rims, and a few cosmetic mods stands out a lot more than a stock SS or T/A. Even though the SS and T/A look almost perfect from the factory minus a few small details.
2) 4th gen's get great gas mileage...for a high performance V8. Me and a buddy of mine took a trip to Tuscalosa a while back and he pulled off 30 MPG and I got a tad over 28 MPG.
3) C6 Z06 are supercars in my book.
4) Ford GT's aren't stripped down race cars...they come with A/C, power door locks, stereo, and all that jazz.
5)"Cobra vs. Vette"...sales magazines and should be the only reason for that comparison...apples and oranges.
6) LS1 F-Bodies aren't all mighty God in stock form. They mod well, get good gas mileage, and are quick. But there are just as fast and faster. When the mach was stock I raced my buddy in his 01 Z28 and it race literally a photo finish on several occasions.I know ford was a day late and a dollar short by putting the Mach and T. Cobra out a year late, but hey, you don't by a car to compete one year now do you? That's why you've got to mod to get faster.
7) Evan Smith got a 12.257 @ 3950lb...er...117.18mph (2.11 60-foot) bone stock. The GT500 is a hoss in more than one way, unfortunatly. I don't know the "specs" for the next gen Camaro but I hope it doen't get close to that weight wise.
8) The reason the GTO flopped was b/c I still see a grand prix/G6/GTO come up behind me on the street and I have to take a 2nd or 3rd look to figure out which it is...who designed that thing? But in their defense they are fun to mess with and they don't sound half bad stock.EDIT: They have improved the GTO somewhat with the hood.
9)Ever heard the phrase "Don't write checks your body can't cash!" Well, don't place bets on a car that might not be able to produce. Okay...that might be stretching it a little. But still I can't stand to see all this "The new camaro is gonna spank any new mustangs butt!!!" business. I'd say there's about a 50% chance you're wrong slick.
10) 4.6's suck like a hoover when it comes to working on them and modding. Headers...the pain an agony I see when I think about doing that again. Cams...yeah all 4 of them installed for a little better than 2 grand.
11) What the poop IS a COPO ZL1???
12) I would much rather have an SS cruising to my one side and a T/A to the other, with a GTO, Charger, and Challenger pulling up the rear as opposed to a Civic, S2000, w/e that Toyota thing is called, etc. Actually I would rather be cruising with a T/A and SS than I would two more stangs. I mean a V8 powered Ford, Pontiac, and Chevy...the only thing more American than that is red, white, and blue!!!
1)I agree mustangs are everywhere. But most are plan jane. To me a lowered mustang with tint, rims, and a few cosmetic mods stands out a lot more than a stock SS or T/A. Even though the SS and T/A look almost perfect from the factory minus a few small details.
2) 4th gen's get great gas mileage...for a high performance V8. Me and a buddy of mine took a trip to Tuscalosa a while back and he pulled off 30 MPG and I got a tad over 28 MPG.
3) C6 Z06 are supercars in my book.
4) Ford GT's aren't stripped down race cars...they come with A/C, power door locks, stereo, and all that jazz.
5)"Cobra vs. Vette"...sales magazines and should be the only reason for that comparison...apples and oranges.
6) LS1 F-Bodies aren't all mighty God in stock form. They mod well, get good gas mileage, and are quick. But there are just as fast and faster. When the mach was stock I raced my buddy in his 01 Z28 and it race literally a photo finish on several occasions.I know ford was a day late and a dollar short by putting the Mach and T. Cobra out a year late, but hey, you don't by a car to compete one year now do you? That's why you've got to mod to get faster.
7) Evan Smith got a 12.257 @ 3950lb...er...117.18mph (2.11 60-foot) bone stock. The GT500 is a hoss in more than one way, unfortunatly. I don't know the "specs" for the next gen Camaro but I hope it doen't get close to that weight wise.
8) The reason the GTO flopped was b/c I still see a grand prix/G6/GTO come up behind me on the street and I have to take a 2nd or 3rd look to figure out which it is...who designed that thing? But in their defense they are fun to mess with and they don't sound half bad stock.EDIT: They have improved the GTO somewhat with the hood.
9)Ever heard the phrase "Don't write checks your body can't cash!" Well, don't place bets on a car that might not be able to produce. Okay...that might be stretching it a little. But still I can't stand to see all this "The new camaro is gonna spank any new mustangs butt!!!" business. I'd say there's about a 50% chance you're wrong slick.
10) 4.6's suck like a hoover when it comes to working on them and modding. Headers...the pain an agony I see when I think about doing that again. Cams...yeah all 4 of them installed for a little better than 2 grand.
11) What the poop IS a COPO ZL1???
12) I would much rather have an SS cruising to my one side and a T/A to the other, with a GTO, Charger, and Challenger pulling up the rear as opposed to a Civic, S2000, w/e that Toyota thing is called, etc. Actually I would rather be cruising with a T/A and SS than I would two more stangs. I mean a V8 powered Ford, Pontiac, and Chevy...the only thing more American than that is red, white, and blue!!!
Good Post
07-12-2006, 12:16 AM
#85
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THE ORIGINAL COPO ZL1 CAMARO
In 1969, a Chevrolet dealer named Fred Gibb worked a deal with GM to produce 50 Camaros with special high-performance upgrades, mainly an all-aluminum 427 engine (COPO 9560). Little did Fred know that by the time the extra performance upgrades were added up they would total over $4,000, more than the cost of the base Camaro itself. Needless to say, the 1969 ZL1 Camaro was not a hot sellerwith a window sticker price of $7,200. Gibb sold only 13 and the rest were sent back to GM to be redistributed to other high-performance Chevrolet dealerships. In addition to the first 50 built, a few other dealerships placed orders for the ZL1 and the final production total for the 1969 ZL1 Camaro ended ironically at 69. Most of the ZL1s were used for racing and many were wrecked or highly modified. Chevrolet considered making the ZL1 as a regular production option and created two prototypes. However seeing how the market could not support a $7,200 Camaro in 1969, GM scrapped the idea. Today, the original ZL1 Camaro is one of the most sought-after Camaros of all time.
In 1969, a Chevrolet dealer named Fred Gibb worked a deal with GM to produce 50 Camaros with special high-performance upgrades, mainly an all-aluminum 427 engine (COPO 9560). Little did Fred know that by the time the extra performance upgrades were added up they would total over $4,000, more than the cost of the base Camaro itself. Needless to say, the 1969 ZL1 Camaro was not a hot sellerwith a window sticker price of $7,200. Gibb sold only 13 and the rest were sent back to GM to be redistributed to other high-performance Chevrolet dealerships. In addition to the first 50 built, a few other dealerships placed orders for the ZL1 and the final production total for the 1969 ZL1 Camaro ended ironically at 69. Most of the ZL1s were used for racing and many were wrecked or highly modified. Chevrolet considered making the ZL1 as a regular production option and created two prototypes. However seeing how the market could not support a $7,200 Camaro in 1969, GM scrapped the idea. Today, the original ZL1 Camaro is one of the most sought-after Camaros of all time.
07-12-2006, 08:18 AM
#86
Originally Posted by Derk 2k3 M1
6) LS1 F-Bodies aren't all mighty God in stock form. They mod well, get good gas mileage, and are quick. But there are just as fast and faster. When the mach was stock I raced my buddy in his 01 Z28 and it was literally a photo finish on several occasions.I know ford was a day late and a dollar short by putting the Mach and T. Cobra out a year late, but hey, you don't buy a car to compete one year now do you? That's why you've got to mod to get faster.
07-12-2006, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by BanditTA
I agree the mustang as I’ve always seen it is middle age dorks or 20-70 year old women.
The new 'Stang sold over 160,000+ units last year and demand still outstrips supply. GM needs to post comparable numbers to justify the new 'Ro, period. Horsepower doesn't tell the whole story here, folks.
07-12-2006, 05:42 PM
#88
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I think the 2009 camaro will do very well in sales considering people have been waiting for this moment for years, including myself, and I would also see a SS version of the camaro brought back.
07-12-2006, 06:07 PM
#96
Is there any reason to keep making posts over and over again? Just edit the one post until someone else posts then you can post again.
There will definately be an SS version, they have an SS for everything else so there's no question that there will be an SS Camaro as well.
Originally Posted by Phoenix 2001
I think the 2009 camaro will do very well in sales considering people have been waiting for this moment for years, including myself, and I would also see a SS version of the camaro brought back.
07-12-2006, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Phoenix 2001
Did the mustangs every break into the low 14's yet minus the supercharger???
I do believe 2000 cobra R with a N/A 5.4 385 hp was in the mid/low 12's stock.......
Oh has the camaro been in production since 2002 
Nothing against anyone else this jackass is just ignorant and making the chevy name look bad. I luv camaros
07-12-2006, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Phoenix 2001
Did the mustangs every break into the low 14's yet minus the supercharger???
I'd say thats more than "breaking into the low 14's"
07-13-2006, 12:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Domestic Demon
2003-2004 Mach 1 is a low 13 second car, bone stock with a manual trans.
I'd say thats more than "breaking into the low 14's"
I'd say thats more than "breaking into the low 14's"
Not to mention the last of the LX 5.0s were low 14 second cars....and that was better than 14 years ago.