jimmy169

Is this all just your opinion or did you hear from someone they may use this engine? If you wanna compare the past, compare the recent past, they've been using corvette engine's in the camaro's lately. The ls1, even the ls2 in the concept. Now the vette has the ls3...so if they follow suite...I think you're going too far back in the past, that's why people are quick to forget, because it's in the past, lol, it's different now, but then again who knows...


I thought I read somewhere though that it will be a v8 that hasn't been used before? Guess time will tell.

68Goatboy

iTrader: (1)

for ***** sake, lets just say the 5th gen is marginally slower on paper than a 4th gen with a good driver - stock. but whats it gonna do thats better than the 4th gen? probably every thing else and more! and it will most probably be much higher in overall quality! not to mention an iron 6.0 has gobs of potential. im sure the car in base V8 trim will be able to pull of some low 5 sec 0-60 sprints

and if the fbod really was priced competitively in its last years, why did sales start dropping off leading to the death of the car? because it was priced much higher than the competition!

yes, hand me down vette technology and parts do trickle down to the rest of the lines, but this car needs to have its own distinct character first, and im sure it will. putting an LS3 in everything is not the way to sell vehicles to the average consumer. key word being average.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Turbo T/A was a special production car, they made 1500 of them. Hardly comparable to a mass produced LT1 T/A. The "last of the 3rd gens" was a TPI 350 in 1992 that made 245hp. A '93 LT1 T/A was faster.

If the new Camaro has 365hp (actual) and weighs more than a 4th gen, then YES, it will IN FACT be somewhat slower. Get used to it, and stop being silly. Simple numbers here....nearly the same actual power, yet more weight. Now, if the L76 is as underrated as the LS1 F-body was, then things might be different.

365hp (again, assuming that's the *actual* number, not just *rated*) in a 2010 base Camaro is WEAK compared to 345hp (actual) in a 1998 base V8 Camaro. What's not to understand? We've come 12 model years (by the 5th gen release date), and GM has introduced a 400hp LS2 for both C6s and GTOs, and a 430hp LS3 for the new C6. Why step backwards to a 365hp V8, when even a GTO had 400hp back in '06? That is not progress, IMO.

Right, which is why I said that a new "stripper" Camaro will not sell well, hence the reason why we won't see many sub-$30k V8 Camaros.

Maybe so, but who cares? The whole point was, GM wasn't afraid to clobber the competition (mustang) back in 1998 with WAY more power than it took to do the job, so why not do the same today? I never said it was actually "fair", but it was the case at the time. And since Camaro will have been gone for 8 model years, what better way to draw people's attention away from Mustang than for GM to introduce a 5th gen Camaro with a base V8 that has 50+ horsepower over it's closest rival. So what if the base price is $2k more than Mustang. It'll be a better, faster car. So be it.

I sure as hell hope it's able to do something better, considering you're once again comparing a 10+ year old car to something brand new!


Where in the hell are you getting your info? The price of a V8 F-body had nothing to do with sales decline. Sales fell apart due to poor marketing, and the fact that the Mustang was seen as more "user friendly" to the average person. Camaro/Firebird was much more of a true enthusiasts car, while Mustang appealed to a broader audiance (many 'normal' people don't seem to like the seating position in the F-body, or the lack of a trunk, etc.). Price had nothing to do with it. How do I know? Beacause the price of a Z28 and a GT were nearly the same from '98-'02. I can post MSRPs for each model year as I did for '98 if you don't beleive me.

How will it be distinct if it shares an L76 with other GM cars? What's the difference if it shares an LS3 with the Vette or an L76 with a G8?

Again, I could really care less if the Camaro comes with a hotter L76 that's making 400hp, or a detuned LS3 that makes 400hp. But I, for one, hope to see a near-400hp base V8 Camaro one way or another. In 2002, the base V6 car was rated at 200hp, with the base V8 at 310 (350 actual). That's a 110hp spread in ratings from V6 to base V8 (and a bigger spread in actual numbers). So there is no reason why GM can't justify a 110hp spread from V6 to base V8 for the 5th gen.

WECIV

Actually the 22k 2002 Z/28 included AC...

The more I think about this the worse the L76 sounds...the LS3 should be the base V8 engine, period.

That engine is not that expensive to make and the C6 has and is using. The G8 is going to be using it and other cars will be using it.

W

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

As much as I might disagree with you on pricing, I agree 100% with your post above.

jimmy169

Where are you guys getting the L76 being the new engine for the new camaro? Did I miss something?

WECIV

Just a guess based on the G8 GT having it...and both cars are built off of the same platform with a lot of the same Aussie engineers.

W

jimmy169

oh...lol...all this bickering over a guesstimate, lol.

Hydramatic

It's a better guestimate than the LS3 showing up! How many Zeta platform cars currently use the LS3?

I rest my case.

You guys know the L76 will inevitably be in the Camaro, but you just choose not to accept it, in the vain hopes that the LS3 is gonna be a base-model engine.

If you want 400hp from the L76, all you need to do is get a tune, intake, and exhaust and *poof* there is your extra 50hp. It's already been proven to be capable of making that kind of power gain with minor stuff like that only. What's the problem here?

That pretty much hands you your 415hp on a silver platter, guys! That's less than a car payment for some of ya'll! Did I mention the L76 is a responsive-*** engine to mods? The L76 is like a secret weapon ninja engine just waiting for the time to strike!

I guess I just don't understand the need to "clobber" the Mustang.

NemeSS

iTrader: (127)

imo i do not care, if it comes witha 4.8 with iron heads
if i can get one for less than 25k$ with just m6, power windows, and locks and cloth seats i will take it. in black, hell with steel wheels if available, i wouldnt even need a radio, just the a/c.
ive never ever kept a a stock radio on any vehicle ive ever owned, not for less than a month at least.
as LSx engine enthusiasts and racers, we have finally reached the point where the aftermarket is huge and growing every day it seems, most all aftermarket engine parts will carryover from the ones designed for ls1,ls2 engines.
im not really concerned with the power ratings of the car, im more concerned with the base v8 m6 pricing and rear end strength. i have accrued a garage full of ls engine parts, (not really a garage)from truck and camaro parts and
and internet parts that i have bought just because the price was to good to pass up and i could use somewhere down the road.
i currently have 370ci forged shortblock with 58x crank, ready to be called into duty.

WECIV

GM should offer an LS3 in a stripped down interior for 25k...

cloth seats
air and heat
radio
manual windows and locks (if they even have the ability to put this on there)
Make it look plain jane with no badging...can look like a V6

GM would not lose money on this car. And .9 of us on this site would buy it.

Normal ppl would not want that car at all...but it would provide us with a Cheap screamer.

W

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

No, we don't know that. And neither do you.

Either way, it's not about accepting it. I/we don't have to accept anything, if I don't like it, I just won't buy it. Simple as that. Now, that's not to say that I'd pass it up *just* because it's got an L76. But I will likely take a pass if the best V8 I can get for under $35k is the L76 making less than 400hp.

The problem is, I want the car to come STOCK with 50hp more (actual) than my '02 Z28, which makes 350hp stock. Not too much to ask after 8 model years and the release of both an LS2 and LS3. If I do a tune, intake, and exhaust I'd like to be making well over 400hp.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, I really don't care if they *offer* a 365hp engine, but they had better make a 400hp engine available for a reasonable price (less than $35k) in this car as well. I'd just feel pretty bad bringing home my brand new Camaro in 2010 or whenever and parking it next to my 12 year old '98 Z and 8 year old '02 Z, that both make only 15-20hp less (stock), and that weight significantly less making them likely faster. Just doesn't seem like progress to me, if that makes sense. I understand that the L76 is very responsive to mods, but I don't want to have to start off with a car that's slower or the same as the last generation of the same model that I bought a decade back. That's all.

And I don't understand what's wrong with clobbering the Mustang. GM made a habit of doing that all through the '90s, with only the Cobras coming close to base V8 Camaros of the same year, power wise. Why not keep it that way? It can only help sales.

jimmy169

But again, the ls1 was in the vette and camaro (was the lt1 in the vette also before the ls1?), and when the concept came out, they put the ls2 in there without question, and from what I hear, the only reason the ls2 won't be used is because it will run it's course by the time the camaro come's out. With the vette having the ls3, why wouldn't the camaro, if it had the same engine the base vette's had in recent years now?

In any case this can go on forever, it's all opinion, I'm just going by recent trend, but only time will tell and hopefully they'll give the details of the v8 sooner than later.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

All correct.

Which is the reason why it's very likey to see an LS3 in at least *one* trim level of the new Camaro. Whether the L76 is involved or not I could care less, JUST so long as I can get an LS3 Camaro for around $32k or so.

Syclone354

iTrader: (6)

Regardless of it all, GM has shot themself in the foot for not having it done 2 years ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKXSg...eature=related

I think these are going to do really well. But then again, maybe the release of the Challenger will just spark more "pony car" enthusiasim in the public, giving the Camaro a more open market to come into.

Im sure they will have a model to compete with every model Ford and Chrysler have. Low (v6 models), medium (gt, 5.7 hemi challenger), and then high (gt500, srt8). I could see the v6, the 5.3, and then the ls3. Who knows what the badging will be, but the Camaro with an ls3 would be in the high $30k range to compete with the srt8. Then, maybe we will see a ls9 powered car to compete with the GT500.

All i know is that i just hope it makes it to production. I wont be buying one (unless something changes quickly), im hoping it drives the prices of the existing ls powered cars (particularly the GTO )!

WECIV

Sub 30 is the highest I am paying for a damn Camaro...and that better have an LS3.

W

406 Q-ship

iTrader: (1)

Dream Dream Dream..........

I want an LS9 with NOS stock for the price of a 1970 LS-6 Chevelle, if GM doesn't do that I'm going home and pout!!!

Oh ya, it better weight the same as a VW bug.

LSjinx

Just a guess:

V6(265hp)- G8 Sedan.....Camaro coupe

L76(362hp)- G8 GT.........Camaro SS

LS3(435hp)- G8 GXP........Camaro Z28

As for my guess on pricing in tune with competition trends:

Charger($25,685)...................G8($27,595) < I do think the G8 base cost more more due to more standard options over the Charger and unavoidable cost to bring it from the Aussies

Charger R/T($30,755).............G8 GT($29,995)

Charger SRT-8($36,355)..........G8 GXP($35,750)


Challenger($24,250)................Camaro($22,500) ..............Mustang($19,490)

Challenger R/T($29,500)..........Camaro SS($28,250)..........Mustang GT($26,080)

Chall. SRT8 6.1L($35,995).....Camaro Z28($34,500)...........Mustang BOSS($33,995)

Chall. ACR 6.4 ($45,095).....Camaro ZL1-LSA($43,250).....Mustang GT500 ($42,170)

Numbers in Bold are solid MSRPs

While its just a guess, I think its a realistic one in my opinion. Im sure many will argue about it. An arguement about something that no-one knows for sure about is pointless because once the final numbers are out we all could be wrong on all sides. So I think its in all good fun to guess or hope. Opinions are good discussion, but not enough for someone to claim to hold the crystalball. So with that said I present my opinion as I see the car lineup with the big three.

Factors in my guess:

-The G8 GXP......I think it will be basically a Holden Commodore HSV. Ive heard Holden is swapping over from the LS2 in it to a LS3. So basically I think it will translate roughly into a GXP. With that in mind, I think a Camaro with a LS3 would follow.

-The G8 GT has a L76, why would a model engineered by the same people who made the G8/VE, with the Zeta chassis, and cost less than a G8 GT have a LS3. I could happen, I dunno. It just doesnt make sense to me from a marketing/direct competition stand point to do it. I think it will be L76 as a base V8.

-I still have the MSRP of $31,290 of a 2006 GTO dancing in my head. Its had a LS2 400hp engine. I have a hard time believing that a Camaro with LS3 435hp will cost less than that of a 2006 GTO. It not a strong factor in my opinion, but it still has the taste of reason.

-Im also leaning away from the Corvette engine hand-me-down theory for this translation of the Camaro. I think this car is going to have I a lot of firsts. For one, its the first Camaro to be developed equally between GM's Holden and Chevy divisions. Its the first IRS Camaro. Its the first one to use a global chassis. Its prolly has a lot of first we cant see yet. Point being....Why wouldn the Camaro have the same rationale on engine/trim choices like before?

-You may have noticed that the Camaro cost more than the Mustang, but less than the Challenger. The reason I believe that is due to my belief that the Camaro standard options, quality, and etc will exceed the Mustang and the Challenger will prolly follow the trend of Dodges pricing of the Charger.

-Second you prolly noticed the reduced cost of the Challenger. Well I think to from a price stand point, I think it would be hard to demand the current price when it gets a V6 and 350hp 5.7L. By MY2009 I think the Challenger body will be cheaper due to the mass production of lesser model in the lineup. I think how a SRT-8 Charger cost $36,355 and a Challenger cost $40,095 is horrible. But Im sure that will change when the Chally gets low end models like it big brother, the charger.

-Also my addition of a 6.4L to the Chally lineup. If the rumored 6.4 makes it into limited number into the Challenger it will prolly will be in the 500hp neighborhood with the GT500. With that said, I think of the LSA in the CTS-V. Now, I dont expect it a ZL-1 to be in the regular lineup, I do think it will be offered as a limited production model. Reason: Why the hell would GM not attack a GT500 and 6.4L Chally?

-The Mustang BOSS, now this is just an idea. The rumored Hurricane program redubbed the BOSS program is the basis. I think a N/A 5.0L (rumored) with 400hp is realistic. Even the rumored Ecoboost twin-turbo V6 with 400hp could be a factor.


If my guess is somewhat near the end results, I will be happy.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

I agree that I really want an LS3 in my new Camaro, but I'm willing to pay more than $30k to get it. I think anything less than $34k is reasonable.

Syclone354

iTrader: (6)

And you probably will be able to. When they are 10 years old with 80k miles on them! Just be thankful if they even build one.