Gen 5 Racing Tech Heads, cam, valvetrain, short block discussion

VVT and DI for a V8 Camaro?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 08-02-2008, 08:33 AM
  #1  
TECH Junkie
Thread Starter
 
WECIV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Gulf Shores and DC
Posts: 3,877
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Default VVT and DI for a V8 Camaro?

How bought an LSx for the new M@RO with VVT and DI? If the V6 gets is why not the V8?

Granted it would not be as easy to mod, but it would get better MPG. Which in the long run would mean the V8 Camaro stays on the market longer (especially now that we have 3 billion new customers for oil...and the oil supply is not getting any larger).

W
Old 08-02-2008, 10:10 AM
  #2  
10 Second Club
iTrader: (14)
 
383ss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Kansas City, KS
Posts: 2,893
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Default

the Gen V motor should have DI. I'm guessing it will debut in the Gen 7 vette.

here's some interesting info taken off 5thgen.org

GM Reveals Small-Block V-8 with Direct Injection - wardsauto.com

By Mike Sutton
Aug. 29, 2007
MILFORD, MI – Although General Motors Corp. is dividing its resources to cover all fronts of advanced powertrain development, the future of the auto maker’s foundation OHV small-block V-8 architecture appears secure with the advent of direct-injection gasoline (DIG) technology.

Among the various exhibits of engineering bravado on display at the auto maker’s proving grounds here, including two-mode hybrid-electric drivetrains, ultra-clean turbodiesels and homogeneous charge compression ignition flex-fuel engines, a seemingly untouched Cadillac Escalade stands out.

Emblazoned with giant E85 banners down its flanks, there is little to indicate the industry’s first OHV V-8 with DIG fueling lurks beneath the SUV’s pearl white hood.

The experimental engine is based on GM’s current all-aluminum Gen IV 6.2L V-8 (L92) found in the Escalade, GMC Yukon Denali and Hummer H2. Depending on the application, the powerplant, which sports port fuel injection, variable valve timing (VVT) and dual-cam phasing, is rated between 380-403 hp in stock form.

However, with a little tweaking to accommodate the auto industry’s latest fuel-injection hardware, the prototype V-8 is producing “well north of 450 hp (on gasoline),” says Dave Sczomak, development engineer-GM Powertrain Advanced Engineering.
Running the engine on E85 ethanol allows for even more power to be coaxed from the big V-8, he adds, noting the 85%/15% ethanol/gasoline mix generally carries a race fuel-like 106 octane rating.

Cruising the web of test roads onsite, the Escalade motors along smoothly with a characteristic large-displacement V-8 burble. However, mashing the gas from a standstill produces a wave of power that propels the big truck at a noticeably more rapid pace than the production version.

Along with the substantial increase in horsepower, DIG also contributes to about a 10% increase in low-end torque, Sczomak says. In addition, fuel economy is moderately improved (3-6%), as are cold-start emissions of hydrocarbons.

To accommodate the DIG fueling system, GM redesigned the L92 cylinder heads, rearranging the intake ports to make room for the eight high-pressure injectors that squirt fuel directly into the side of the combustion chamber at 2,250 psi (155 bar).
New dished pistons – similar to a diesel’s – were installed for added clearance of the injectors. They also contribute to a greater compression ratio (11.5:1 vs. 10.5:1), which can be employed because of the high-octane composition of E85 and the knock-reducing cooling effect of introducing fuel directly into the cylinder.

A modified engine controller manages the engine’s operation, while VVT and Active Fuel Management cylinder deactivation contribute to efficiency and refinement.

The development sounds like a no-brainer for improving nearly every aspect of the near-60-year-old small block’s performance.
However, Tom Stephens, group vice president-GM Powertrain and Quality, notes introducing a production DIG small block would “require the next-generation architecture” of the engine, or Gen V.

This primarily is due to the huge volumes of V-8 engines GM produces, Sczomak says, noting a radical change in cylinder-head design, for example, becomes a monumental undertaking when taking into account GM’s annual build of more than 1 million small block V-8s.

Fortunately, timing is on the auto maker’s side. The recent introduction of the ’08 Corvette’s 430-hp LS3 V-8, along with the release later this year of the ’08 Chevrolet Tahoe Hybrid’s 6.0L V-8, represent the last editions of the Gen IV engine family, Stephens says.

All subsequent introductions will be of the Gen V architecture and could have DIG fueling integrated from the ground up, especially considering the refinement of the current test engine’s operation. The greater specific output provided by DIG also would allow for greater engine downsizing, thereby improving fuel economy even further.

“GM would want to introduce this (DIG) on a high-profile vehicle, such as the new (Chevrolet) Camaro or (rear-wheel-drive) Impala,” Global Insight analyst John Wolkonowicz says, referring to the auto maker’s plans for new volume models based on its global RWD platform developed by GM Holden Ltd. in Australia.

The new Camaro, which originally was shown at the 2005 North American International Auto Show in Detroit, is expected to appear later next year as an ’09 model, with the all-new RWD Impala taking form sometime early in the next decade. Revisions for future generations of the Corvette and Chevrolet Silverado/GMC Sierra pickups are expected in the same timeframe, Wolkonowicz says.

By capitalizing on areas of significant improvement that remain untapped in its core engine lineup, while simultaneously amping up the arrival of its new hybrid-electric vehicles, clean diesels and hydrogen fuel cells, GM clearly is betting on an ever-fracturing market for advanced powertrains.

As a result, the iconic grumble of the small-block V-8 appears poised to remain a fixture of the automotive landscape for the foreseeable future.
Old 08-02-2008, 02:45 PM
  #3  
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (1)
 
FatZ28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Cleburne,Tx
Posts: 1,642
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 1 Post

Default

Someone explain to me what DI is?
Old 08-02-2008, 03:19 PM
  #4  
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (127)
 
NemeSS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Houston,TX
Posts: 6,888
Received 7 Likes on 7 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by FatZ28
Someone explain to me what DI is?
Direct Injection
Old 08-02-2008, 03:20 PM
  #5  
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (127)
 
NemeSS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Houston,TX
Posts: 6,888
Received 7 Likes on 7 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by WECIV
How bought an LSx for the new M@RO with VVT and DI? If the V6 gets is why not the V8?

Granted it would not be as easy to mod, but it would get better MPG. Which in the long run would mean the V8 Camaro stays on the market longer (especially now that we have 3 billion new customers for oil...and the oil supply is not getting any larger).

W
found a way around camaro ehh?
Old 08-03-2008, 04:32 PM
  #6  
TECH Junkie
Thread Starter
 
WECIV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Gulf Shores and DC
Posts: 3,877
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Default

camaro

W
Old 08-03-2008, 04:32 PM
  #7  
TECH Junkie
Thread Starter
 
WECIV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Gulf Shores and DC
Posts: 3,877
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Default

Anyway...I think these technologies could be a way to make an LSx engine competitive with V6 engines for muscle cars.

W
Old 08-03-2008, 06:43 PM
  #8  
TECH Apprentice
iTrader: (4)
 
SS#1531's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Alamogordo, NM
Posts: 349
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Default

I think the Gen V V-8 will have DI, and probably debut in the Corvette. If it's going to make its way into the Camaro soon enough (I plan on buying a second year 5th Gen), I may wait for it to buy mine.
Old 08-03-2008, 07:03 PM
  #9  
11 Second Club
iTrader: (10)
 
SSNISTR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 2,728
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by NemeSS
found a way around camaro ehh?
Yeah, he likes us all thinking he's lol.
Old 08-04-2008, 12:02 AM
  #10  
TECH Resident
iTrader: (16)
 
bmxer8699's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: dfw
Posts: 985
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Default

in a v6 i think they should be pumping out more then 26 mpg highway.. somethin dont sound right
Old 08-04-2008, 12:36 AM
  #11  
Dom
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (2)
 
Dom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,381
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post

Default

Any speculation on the Gen V motor? Is it going to be DOHC or still pushrod?
Old 08-04-2008, 09:26 AM
  #12  
Banned
iTrader: (1)
 
bigjohns97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Pearland, TX
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Default

I am going to try and wait for these in the new camaro, before i buy.
Old 08-04-2008, 06:18 PM
  #13  
TECH Fanatic
 
Hydramatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New Braunfels, TX
Posts: 1,207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by FatZ28
Someone explain to me what DI is?
Direct injection is what DI stands for, and, in a nutshell, it is when the fuel is sprayed directly into the chamber, instead of before the valves. This is how diesels do it, and it works well due to the elimination of the obstacles in the flowpath.

Here's a good link.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_direct_injection
Old 08-04-2008, 07:33 PM
  #14  
10 Second Club
iTrader: (14)
 
383ss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Kansas City, KS
Posts: 2,893
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by bigjohns97
I am going to try and wait for these in the new camaro, before i buy.
I wouldn't hold your breath. I would guess 3 years minimun. expect it in the vette first.
Old 08-04-2008, 09:57 PM
  #15  
On The Tree
iTrader: (1)
 
hurley_21_07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hurley, WI
Posts: 199
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Default

DOHC would be retarded. GM knows what it is doing with OHV and will always develop new ways to make it more awesome.

MAYBE the cam-in-cam....but other than that it would be stupid.

This is just my traditional opinion.

Dan
Old 08-05-2008, 12:30 PM
  #16  
TECH Fanatic
 
Hydramatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New Braunfels, TX
Posts: 1,207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

I just thought of the dumbest idea ever....


(D)OHV. Two pushrod cams, sitting stacked vertically. one does exhaust one does intake.

There would likely be no gains...
Old 08-05-2008, 04:24 PM
  #17  
TECH Regular
 
caseypayne69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Western Kentucky
Posts: 427
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by bmxer8699
in a v6 i think they should be pumping out more then 26 mpg highway.. somethin dont sound right
My guess its the overly retarded 11.3:1 compression. Seams a bit high if you ask me.
Old 08-05-2008, 04:51 PM
  #18  
10 Second Club
iTrader: (14)
 
383ss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Kansas City, KS
Posts: 2,893
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by caseypayne69
My guess its the overly retarded 11.3:1 compression. Seams a bit high if you ask me.
overly retarded?? ya, 11.3 on 87 octance and DI is retarded.
Old 08-05-2008, 05:19 PM
  #19  
On The Tree
iTrader: (1)
 
406 Q-ship's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 163
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by caseypayne69
My guess its the overly retarded 11.3:1 compression. Seams a bit high if you ask me.
High compression = Higher efficency
Old 08-05-2008, 10:53 PM
  #20  
TECH Junkie
Thread Starter
 
WECIV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Gulf Shores and DC
Posts: 3,877
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Default

I was also thinking VVT and DI would result in a 11 to 1 compression ratio V8 on 87 octane.

W


Quick Reply: VVT and DI for a V8 Camaro?



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:49 PM.