ULTIMATEORANGESS

iTrader: (4)

yes, please this. its getting nowhere.

Semper91-RS

I really think that they did a good job on showing us the new Camaro. Yeah, they looked at both sides, but they're reporters, it's what they do.

Darksol

http://www.homes.com/Content/Listing...earchorig=main


Theres one. If you seach the listings though there are several in the low $100000 range in Eatontown, NJ.
Most of the country has really expensive areas and really poor areas within 20 mins of each other. Hell in St. Louis, Ladue, Mo average house costs-$828,300
http://www.city-data.com/city/Ladue-Missouri.html

And only 10 mins up 170 (our innerbelt) average house values are less than $90000
http://www.city-data.com/city/Kinloch-Missouri.html

I bet that within a reasonable(which is a opinion as to what reasonable is) drive that a average UAW employee could find a decent home.

ULTIMATEORANGESS

iTrader: (4)

those are most likely coops that you pay fees for and have shitty resale value but i get your point.


but where do you live in st louis ive wanted to go there for awhile now?

ULTIMATEORANGESS

iTrader: (4)

LOL thats ind. way. i work on that road. theres no homes there. rofl



http://www.homes.com/Content/Listing...in&Display=Map


thanks for trying but i know this area.

wannabess00

iTrader: (1)

Yes, I cant imagine why that would set off on a political rant. I mean, I call people liberals all the time. Like when the drive thru lady forgets to put mild sauce in my taco bell order im like "hey liberal, wheres the sauce" Then I add a touch of idealogical viewpoint. Dont see the connection with it being offensive.

Darksol

I lived in between the two. Also lived in Kirkwood and Chesterfield. Both nicer neighborhoods. Currently I'm in Kittanning,PA. A **** hole of a town. Can't wait to move. AGAIN.

While the UAW may not be the biggest factor it is a factor. My problem with the UAW is why should a employee on the assembly line holding a special wrench designed to fasten one part to a car like say the glove box straps, should be payed 3-4 times more than the guy taking my order at McDonalds when their job does not require any more advanced skill than the McD's job. Take wrench, place on bolt, press button. NEXT!

There are may contributing factors to consider when thinking about a car. The cost of steel has also jumped to new highs. The average cost to build a vehicle is climbing. There are may contributing factors.

While I hope that some faithful do hold out for the Camaro, I have little doubt that Dodge will get those buyers that simply will not wait for it to see the light of day. GM as a whole has to create market trends not chase them. That will be the key to their success. GM created the muscle car with the GTO. Ford created the pony car with their Mustang. Chrysler created the minivan. Its time to for GM to innovate not chase. GM will hybrid a Tahoe. Why not a Cobalt or Aveo? Why doesn't someone hybrid a minivan? Why do the Europeans make cool station wagons and why are americans afraid of them? Oh well. Maybe they innovated to much and got a bloody nose for it? Remember the Fiero, & the V-8,6,4? DOH!

wannabess00

iTrader: (1)

You know Ive heard this arguement several times and its just boring and sad. Its sad that people like you feel it is your place to tell someone what they are worth. This whole arguement about "why should (joe didnt go to college) be making $100billion dollars an hour for turning nuts and bolts and blah blah Ive never worked in this industry and have only an ignorant preception of what the jobs acually are".

Let me tell you something of interest. Theres alittle piece of economy known as spending power that is vital to a successful economy. You think you got all the answers? These workers arent making as much as you think they are. You wanna see what happends when workers all work at McDonalds wages. Talk to Gorbachev and the other former Soviet leaders. Ask them what happends when you pay 80% of the population cheap wages. Tends to bring the same results we have now.

Craiggg

iTrader: (1)

Some rich conceited ******** in here. Kinda makes me glad I'm poor and make less than 25k a year.

ULTIMATEORANGESS

iTrader: (4)

what you think someone should be paid is your opinion and i think auto workers are paid fairly and even mngt had admitted wages arent a problem. its pension and benefit obligations which was worked out in this last contract.

a new camaro is going to kick ***. i drove a G8GT and thats a fantastic machine so i know a camaro will be even better. will GM survive long term? hard to say im afraid.

ULTIMATEORANGESS

iTrader: (4)

sadly i agree. i fail to understand the point of badmouthing middle class workers because they feel they make too much. you know what? CEOS MAKE TOO ******* MUCH! yet nothing gets done as workers keep losing their jobs.


you think someone makes too much get a job there or STFU and live with it. its not your concern or problem unless you own or run the co.

Darksol

By no means am I rich. I have think its out of wack to have a assembly worker making that kind of money when there are lots of jobs that have comparable skills needed yet pay so much less. That was my point. Are they overpaid? If they're not then the guy at McDonalds is definitely underpaid. Unions are like a small fraternity. Its who you know to get in. Theres a reason why there are waiting lists to get jobs in the UAW. Top pay for assembly line work. Compared to say someone enlisted in the military their (UAW) pay is out of wack.

http://www.militaryfactory.com/military_pay_scale.asp

Same for police and firemen. Compared to jobs that put their life on the line day in and day out yes UAW employees to me are overpaid. OR rather military and public service jobs pay is just plain sad. Are you going to tell me that the person in the UAW is worth paying more for what they do compared to public service and military?

I feel that a lot of people are not paid what they are worth and some are just plain overpaid. Most CEOs have to worry about getting the company to perform or worry about getting the ax. Unless you run GM.

ULTIMATEORANGESS

iTrader: (4)

as ive said many times UAW wages are negiotiated by people that are paid alot of money so sorry if i dont cry for poor GM because they cant hire competent negotiators. just because a certain field is underpaid doesnt mean another is overpaid. military pay is terrible. perhaps personnel should get a union if they can?

but paid firemen and cops make a ton of money here and most dont do **** besides write tickets. you know why they make good money? UNIONS! so since you mentioned those jobs are their unions also no good and are they also overpaid? honestly i respect police but lately their salaries are getting out of control and the only reason i care is because it causes taxes to go up but if a veteran patrolman can make 100k (yes, they make that much if they work enough) then good for them.

and the truth is most CEOs get fat buyouts when they screw up and are rarely held accountable when a co. fails to be profitable. most of the time its the little guy that loses his job not a CEO.

ULTIMATEORANGESS

iTrader: (4)

also military personnel are offered discounted or free housing if they live on base here. they also have stores where food and other things are heavily discounted. ive bought things at those stores and theyre very cheap. they also get new vehicle discounts.

im not discounting or down playing our military. they deserve all those things and i wish them the best. im just saying im not aware of any UAW members having these same privileges.

Darksol

No just discounted cars. More so than the military.

Darksol

Being from St. Louis I think I have a pretty good handle on what happens during a buyout. Want ads for janitors at AB started at $15 a hour and that was a few years ago. Again, most janitors don't make that. Maybe 2/3s as much. The power of a union comes form its ability to cripple a company by a work stoppage. If GM paid the union 2/3 as much and brought their pay more in line with the rest of the country then I wouldn't have a gripe. Unions are one step shutting doors at plants all across the country. Like a little kid throwing a temper tantrum if they don't get their way. They are not all welders, electricians or any other skilled trades. Why do they get paid as though they all are?

As far as the rest of the debate, you would never change your mind so go ahead and continue to believe that unions are a sad, mistreated bunch. And I'll believe that compared to comparable jobs they are overpaid in the auto industry.

And I truly do hope that G.M. starts to turn a profit in a short amount of time. With or without Wagoner and Lutz. Leadership is hard to come by, especially if you only have the courage to follow trends and not make your own. I pray the Camaro lives to see a redesign.

wannabess00

iTrader: (1)

$45K a year is classified as a living wage in this country. Sometimes just below it. If youre suggesting that they shouldnt be paid a living wage just because YOU claim to know what the jobs entail then I ask you who should be paid a living wage. I dont really think McDonalds workers have to worry about losing fingers or eye sight or possible death. Bear in mind these workers arent going home to huge $650,000 homes. People like you dont ever want to look at the excessive bonuses the hundreds of GM execs get and would rather point the finger at working middle class citizens. Not everyone is cut out to go to a 4year college and sit in an office so why should the world not offer oppertunity for those people to earn a living wage?

BTW...I dont think the UAW is what you think it is. GM hires their people and those same people they hire are the UAW and they can run for elected office within the union and even take part in the nation wide contracts. The UAW is not just some group of guys that act as a 3rd party and bully GM around the way you seem to describe it. The workers elect themselves to those positions not a fraternity

ULTIMATEORANGESS

iTrader: (4)

from what i know all non assembly work is now outsourced. so im sure that includes janitorial. again , youre wrong about skilled trades and non. skilled are paid more than non skilled assembly jobs. please read the link i posted. thats what its for. im being serious not sarcastic.

i never said unions are sad and mistreated. what i said is i dont feel sorry for GMs upper mngt. they have negotiators on their side too. that link i posted shows that 8%(i think thats what it says) of labor cost contribute to the cost of a car. thats not whats hurting the big three. again, as i showed toyota pays similar wages so i guess those people are overpaid too?


CB is not illegal in this country last i checked so i dont see why anyone would have a problem with it. cops, athletes and many skilled construction trades have representation. why cant auto workers?

ULTIMATEORANGESS

iTrader: (4)

im with you man. i dont claim to know alot about what goes on at UAW assembly plants but i dont go calling them overpaid and unskilled. fact is CEOs pay is way more here than most other countries but thats ok. just blame the people building the cars. theyre just doing their job unlike that turd wagoner.

wannabess00

iTrader: (1)

What I always find so sadly overlooked is the fact that this is the first time in this nations history in which we had 5 years of economic growth,Production has increased every year, CEO pay is now 400+ times what the average wage earner is making, The wealthiest Americans earnings have tripled and the middle class wages have either raised only 1.5% or remained the same which means the bottom half declined in earnings. And yet it is suggested that this kind of economic theory works for the benefit of everyone in this country. Its only a way of creating concentrated wealth in the hands of the wealthiest people.

And yet the first one the finger gets pointed at by the general populus is the factory workers rather then really look at why labor costs are so high. Its not the fault of the UAW that the Healthcare costs have skyrocketed or the cost of living has become outrageous. The mentality seems to be any more that the worlds divided between the hard working people and the lazy people and the hard working people go to college and get a good paying job and the lazy people skip out on college and expect to be paid a really high wage. Some people I think feel that skilled trades workers earning over double the minimum wage is somehow underminding the work they did in earning a college degree in hopes of making a substantial amount more and finding out that they werent going to be paid much more.