LS1 F body or a WRX Sti???
11-04-2008 | 03:55 PM
#83
I have experience with both, so let me share. I have a 98 M6 F-body, my friend has an '05 STI.
I have to admit, his car is fun. It handles and stops great, and it pulls good for a 4 banger. But its just not my taste in cars, for a number of reasons.
First off, its an attention grabbing car, but I would never call it attractive by any means. Its expensive as hell to maintain, a brake job will set you back over $1000 using genuine Subaru parts. I took one look at the engine bay and realized if you need to service it, you would probably have to pull the engine for most tasks. It looks like even plugs would be a two day job. So if something does go wrong, you'll probably have to bring it to the dealer, and you're going to get raped in labor and the high cost of parts. As someone else mentioned, something as simple as a wheel bearing is even a pain in the ***. For some unknown reason the japs think that pressed in wheel bearings are still a good idea, almost all japanese cars still use them, and they are just plain retarded. STI's are also very expensive to mod, a downpipe alone cost more than a complete stainless header and Y-pipe setup for an F-body. And the engine itself is only good to 400HP, you're on borrowed time above that level, and it takes a lot to even get that high considering you're starting off with only 230WHP. Another issue is the fact that you're making 300HP out of a small 4 cylinder. That presents a number of problems, not the least of which is turbo lag. His car won't really move until somewhere between 3200-3500RPM, thats when you actually start feeling the power. We went from a roll on the highway one night, I hit it and I actually let off because I didn't think he went, but he said it was just turbo lag, and that was after downshifting. Also, making 300HP out of a boosted 4 cylinder takes its toll on longevity of the motor. What do you think will be in better operating condition at 100K miles, an N/A LS1 V8 that lopes along at 1800RPM on the highway or a boosted 4 cylinder that turns 3500RPM at highway speed just to maintain speed?? Also, many people have reported issues with the transmission. My friend doesn't have any problems with his, but he also doesn't abuse it, the car has never been launched or powershifted in its life. And despite being only a 4 cylinder, my friend still only can manage 17MPG with 3/4 highway 1/4 city driving.
F-bodys are basically the opposite of the above paragraph. They are cheaper to buy, cheaper to make power with, much better looking (duh), and much better sounding. You can also do just about everything on them yourself, and parts are readily available from just about anywhere. Plus, RWD is just plain more fun, nothing like doing a smokey burnout or getting sideway through a turn. And the power is always there, no waiting for any turbo lag, just mash the pedal and the tires break loose at just about anything off idle. The manual transmissions are deam near bulletproof as well, the T56 is regarded as the best 6 speed car transmission in existance, only recently superceeded by the new Tremec TR6060, which replaced it in newer applications. There is also something about the way an F-body drives, an STI feels like a modded out family sedan/econo car (it is) whereas an F-body gives you that genuine sports car feeling of a low seating position and long hood. As for handling, a stock STI will outhandle a stock F-body, but a few suspension upgrades will really improve the handling and feel it.
Hope that helps.
I have to admit, his car is fun. It handles and stops great, and it pulls good for a 4 banger. But its just not my taste in cars, for a number of reasons.
First off, its an attention grabbing car, but I would never call it attractive by any means. Its expensive as hell to maintain, a brake job will set you back over $1000 using genuine Subaru parts. I took one look at the engine bay and realized if you need to service it, you would probably have to pull the engine for most tasks. It looks like even plugs would be a two day job. So if something does go wrong, you'll probably have to bring it to the dealer, and you're going to get raped in labor and the high cost of parts. As someone else mentioned, something as simple as a wheel bearing is even a pain in the ***. For some unknown reason the japs think that pressed in wheel bearings are still a good idea, almost all japanese cars still use them, and they are just plain retarded. STI's are also very expensive to mod, a downpipe alone cost more than a complete stainless header and Y-pipe setup for an F-body. And the engine itself is only good to 400HP, you're on borrowed time above that level, and it takes a lot to even get that high considering you're starting off with only 230WHP. Another issue is the fact that you're making 300HP out of a small 4 cylinder. That presents a number of problems, not the least of which is turbo lag. His car won't really move until somewhere between 3200-3500RPM, thats when you actually start feeling the power. We went from a roll on the highway one night, I hit it and I actually let off because I didn't think he went, but he said it was just turbo lag, and that was after downshifting. Also, making 300HP out of a boosted 4 cylinder takes its toll on longevity of the motor. What do you think will be in better operating condition at 100K miles, an N/A LS1 V8 that lopes along at 1800RPM on the highway or a boosted 4 cylinder that turns 3500RPM at highway speed just to maintain speed?? Also, many people have reported issues with the transmission. My friend doesn't have any problems with his, but he also doesn't abuse it, the car has never been launched or powershifted in its life. And despite being only a 4 cylinder, my friend still only can manage 17MPG with 3/4 highway 1/4 city driving.
F-bodys are basically the opposite of the above paragraph. They are cheaper to buy, cheaper to make power with, much better looking (duh), and much better sounding. You can also do just about everything on them yourself, and parts are readily available from just about anywhere. Plus, RWD is just plain more fun, nothing like doing a smokey burnout or getting sideway through a turn. And the power is always there, no waiting for any turbo lag, just mash the pedal and the tires break loose at just about anything off idle. The manual transmissions are deam near bulletproof as well, the T56 is regarded as the best 6 speed car transmission in existance, only recently superceeded by the new Tremec TR6060, which replaced it in newer applications. There is also something about the way an F-body drives, an STI feels like a modded out family sedan/econo car (it is) whereas an F-body gives you that genuine sports car feeling of a low seating position and long hood. As for handling, a stock STI will outhandle a stock F-body, but a few suspension upgrades will really improve the handling and feel it.
Hope that helps.
Hmmm maybe just a few biased comments. Drive both and then decide. STi will be 2x the price and harder to mod. 
11-11-2008 | 10:10 AM
#88
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,799
Likes: 16
From: St.Charles MO
11-11-2008 | 10:46 AM
#90
I would say the best way is to drive both and see which one you like the best. Both are great cars.
I have a 2002 WS6 and love it, but my friend has a 2007 sti limited edition. It doesnt have the huge wing and everything, looks very nice. With the awd they put you in the back of the seat and my friends is stock. They handle very well too.
I have a 2002 WS6 and love it, but my friend has a 2007 sti limited edition. It doesnt have the huge wing and everything, looks very nice. With the awd they put you in the back of the seat and my friends is stock. They handle very well too.
11-12-2008 | 12:45 AM
#93
with your non mullet ways. This is where you go if you feel nothing can touch your all mighty Elles Huan
11-12-2008 | 02:41 PM
#94
12 Second Club
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 411
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From: Webb City,MO
WOW. Not only is this thread full of BS....but we have guys on here who have probably never been in an STI making comments and remarks on them. First off here is my .02 rite off the bat. If you have a limited budget...get the LS1 car...plain and simple...thats why I went back to them...Cash! I did a STI project before I came to the LS1 world. I had more money in that car than I even want to talk about but outperformed most anthing I ran into. I put down 615whp with a built axis shortblock with head, Cams, STOCK TRANS , and a 35R rotated turbo setup with around 29psi!!!
Best time I ever had with a car project...not much could touch me...and it was a 4 door...GOD handled 2.5l 4 banger!!!
Go with the Sti if you have the money for a build and the cost of the car. The car itself is way more fun and doesnt feel like your driving a boat. Your talking bout a 2.5l boxer 4 that has been known to hold 500whp with stock internals top and bottom end and a tranny that in nearly bullet proof!!! Comes stock with brembos, best susp. youll ever need, AWD with DCCD (Driver Controlled Center Diff) And tons more! I miss the hell out of mine...but I love both worlds...getting ready for my head/cam swap myself. Imports done the rite way is simply a rich mans game simply said.
To give you an idea on the differnce in mod prices...It cost me the same for a complete fuel sytem to run the setup I had on my Subaru (fuel pump, 1200cc injectors, FP regulator and fuel rails) as the entire setup im bout to do to my LS1.... tune, cam, rods, rod bolts, CNC heads, gaskets, springs, and time!!!!! That is no joke!! Prepare yourself if you go this route.
11-12-2008 | 03:05 PM
#95
^ a more expensive car, built parts, & 29 psi? WOW! that's crazy man
honestly I think if he wants a powerful car then why don't he spend LESS money on the ls1 car, supporting mods, built shortblock, and aps twin turbo kit and drink that STi silly cause hence it's only a 4 banger. plus import parts are more expensive. sure, it's a great looking car for a four door, stylish & comforting, but I don't understand the concept of going smaller if you want a powerful car instead of a moderate option loaded car. especially when people starting talking about their turbo on a 4 or 6 banger. to make it fair, you put your turbo on your motor and I'll put a turbo on my motor but my theory don't hold up for long cause those 10 & 12cyl people can talk crap about us 8cyl guys too haha.
honestly I think if he wants a powerful car then why don't he spend LESS money on the ls1 car, supporting mods, built shortblock, and aps twin turbo kit and drink that STi silly cause hence it's only a 4 banger. plus import parts are more expensive. sure, it's a great looking car for a four door, stylish & comforting, but I don't understand the concept of going smaller if you want a powerful car instead of a moderate option loaded car. especially when people starting talking about their turbo on a 4 or 6 banger. to make it fair, you put your turbo on your motor and I'll put a turbo on my motor
but my theory don't hold up for long cause those 10 & 12cyl people can talk crap about us 8cyl guys too haha.
11-12-2008 | 03:21 PM
#96
Thread Starter
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Joined: Oct 2008
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I've driven both the Sti and while not an LS1 f body, I've driven an LS1 vette, and a heavily modified lt1 f body.
Here is my conclusion, if I had the money I would buy the Sti, hands down. Everything Drew said is pretty much spot on, they are ridiculously fun cars to drive. Not as easy to drive as an F body though I have to admit, due to the shorter gears and the timing of the transmission shifts (I've gotten better though).
I think what I am going to go ahead and do is just get an F body, I found a 99' SS with 70k miles for 7k. Looks like it is in great condition, has Zr1 wheels on it, looks great.
If the car is still there if I get approved I am going to buy it.
My next option would be to consider just a regular WRX but I would want an 06' or 07' model which still runs in the 17-20k range apparently.
And yes this thread was full of BS, every other post I had to counter say something to try and level out the stupidity, but it overwhelmed and I became exhausted and just gave up.
I saw the vid of your STI in another thread Drew, it's sick as hell.
I just think for now, the best value for the money would be the LS1 as it is considerably cheaper, and a very respectable motor.
Here is my conclusion, if I had the money I would buy the Sti, hands down. Everything Drew said is pretty much spot on, they are ridiculously fun cars to drive. Not as easy to drive as an F body though I have to admit, due to the shorter gears and the timing of the transmission shifts (I've gotten better though).
I think what I am going to go ahead and do is just get an F body, I found a 99' SS with 70k miles for 7k. Looks like it is in great condition, has Zr1 wheels on it, looks great.
If the car is still there if I get approved I am going to buy it.
My next option would be to consider just a regular WRX but I would want an 06' or 07' model which still runs in the 17-20k range apparently.
And yes this thread was full of BS, every other post I had to counter say something to try and level out the stupidity, but it overwhelmed and I became exhausted and just gave up.
I saw the vid of your STI in another thread Drew, it's sick as hell.
I just think for now, the best value for the money would be the LS1 as it is considerably cheaper, and a very respectable motor.
11-12-2008 | 03:57 PM
#97
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 411
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From: Webb City,MO
^ a more expensive car, built parts, & 29 psi? WOW! that's crazy man
honestly I think if he wants a powerful car then why don't he spend LESS money on the ls1 car, supporting mods, built shortblock, and aps twin turbo kit and drink that STi silly cause hence it's only a 4 banger. plus import parts are more expensive. sure, it's a great looking car for a four door, stylish & comforting, but I don't understand the concept of going smaller if you want a powerful car instead of a moderate option loaded car. especially when people starting talking about their turbo on a 4 or 6 banger. to make it fair, you put your turbo on your motor and I'll put a turbo on my motor but my theory don't hold up for long cause those 10 & 12cyl people can talk crap about us 8cyl guys too haha.
honestly I think if he wants a powerful car then why don't he spend LESS money on the ls1 car, supporting mods, built shortblock, and aps twin turbo kit and drink that STi silly cause hence it's only a 4 banger. plus import parts are more expensive. sure, it's a great looking car for a four door, stylish & comforting, but I don't understand the concept of going smaller if you want a powerful car instead of a moderate option loaded car. especially when people starting talking about their turbo on a 4 or 6 banger. to make it fair, you put your turbo on your motor and I'll put a turbo on my motor
but my theory don't hold up for long cause those 10 & 12cyl people can talk crap about us 8cyl guys too haha.And thanks for the comments on the projects guys!!!
11-12-2008 | 04:06 PM
#98
12 Second Club
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 411
Likes: 0
From: Webb City,MO
I've driven both the Sti and while not an LS1 f body, I've driven an LS1 vette, and a heavily modified lt1 f body.
Here is my conclusion, if I had the money I would buy the Sti, hands down. Everything Drew said is pretty much spot on, they are ridiculously fun cars to drive. Not as easy to drive as an F body though I have to admit, due to the shorter gears and the timing of the transmission shifts (I've gotten better though).
I think what I am going to go ahead and do is just get an F body, I found a 99' SS with 70k miles for 7k. Looks like it is in great condition, has Zr1 wheels on it, looks great.
If the car is still there if I get approved I am going to buy it.
My next option would be to consider just a regular WRX but I would want an 06' or 07' model which still runs in the 17-20k range apparently.
And yes this thread was full of BS, every other post I had to counter say something to try and level out the stupidity, but it overwhelmed and I became exhausted and just gave up.
I saw the vid of your STI in another thread Drew, it's sick as hell.
I just think for now, the best value for the money would be the LS1 as it is considerably cheaper, and a very respectable motor.
Here is my conclusion, if I had the money I would buy the Sti, hands down. Everything Drew said is pretty much spot on, they are ridiculously fun cars to drive. Not as easy to drive as an F body though I have to admit, due to the shorter gears and the timing of the transmission shifts (I've gotten better though).
I think what I am going to go ahead and do is just get an F body, I found a 99' SS with 70k miles for 7k. Looks like it is in great condition, has Zr1 wheels on it, looks great.
If the car is still there if I get approved I am going to buy it.
My next option would be to consider just a regular WRX but I would want an 06' or 07' model which still runs in the 17-20k range apparently.
And yes this thread was full of BS, every other post I had to counter say something to try and level out the stupidity, but it overwhelmed and I became exhausted and just gave up.
I saw the vid of your STI in another thread Drew, it's sick as hell.
I just think for now, the best value for the money would be the LS1 as it is considerably cheaper, and a very respectable motor.
Glad you loved my car man. It was a ton of fun my I would be lieing if I said I went out of that sale smelling like roses.....you build a project that big and you better be ready to lose your ***....wich I did. But I would'nt take it back for the world.
Be carefull if you end up going with a reg WRX. IF you do make sure to go with the 04+ because of the body style change but mostly because its when the switched to the much stronger and better ratio'ed trannys. I had an 03 project wich I of course shattered the first time I creaped up on 300whp and shifted hard from first to second....wich honestly was kinda expected. I replaced the tranny with a built RA cryo treated gearset that turns out to be only a little stronger than that of a 04....the ratios are not as good is the only reason I went with the RA's. Anyways...hit me up if you go that route. I built my 03 with completly stock 2.0 liter....all bolt-ons and great tune made 320whp with a small TD05H 20g!!!! Spooled like a bastard with the top end of a 20g....hard to beat on the street light to light anyways. GOod luck bro and hit me up with any ?'s you may have. Sounds like you found a good F-body deal.
11-12-2008 | 04:22 PM
#99
Apples to Oranges fellas'
You really can't compare the two cars.
That being said, I don't own an STi. I have an Evo VIII. I came from a 500whp SS to the Evo. AWD is great. I will have a hard time owning anything other than AWD from here on out.
Either way, weigh your options and find out what you want.
GOod luck
You really can't compare the two cars.
That being said, I don't own an STi. I have an Evo VIII. I came from a 500whp SS to the Evo. AWD is great. I will have a hard time owning anything other than AWD from here on out.
Either way, weigh your options and find out what you want.
GOod luck
