what is the stock horse power of a 2002 firebird ls1?
03-27-2009, 06:53 AM
#21
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+1 to above, Marketing People, why would they admit that the camaro which cost about 10,000 less than a new C5 put down the same power?? they wouldn't, and They didn't.
As to the age old SS and z/28 formula vs ws6, Im sure lots have said it b4: Yes They Look Snazzy with the Compositery, and suspension N ****'...But aside from preference and Name buying, You could Just as effectively Buy a Z/28 or formula and use the 4-5K you save over the ss /Ram air package to Upgrade your Z/bird to Spec Performance as you could Buy a camaro/Trans Am and use the extra 10,000+ saved over a c5 and Build your F body To bitch slap it...
my .02 :Yes Vettes are sexy, But i'd rather have a vette spankin' F body
Flame on Bitches.
As to the age old SS and z/28 formula vs ws6, Im sure lots have said it b4: Yes They Look Snazzy with the Compositery, and suspension N ****'...But aside from preference and Name buying, You could Just as effectively Buy a Z/28 or formula and use the 4-5K you save over the ss /Ram air package to Upgrade your Z/bird to Spec Performance as you could Buy a camaro/Trans Am and use the extra 10,000+ saved over a c5 and Build your F body To bitch slap it...
my .02 :Yes Vettes are sexy, But i'd rather have a vette spankin' F bodyFlame on Bitches.
Last edited by RiceEaterZ; 03-27-2009 at 03:52 PM.
03-27-2009, 07:02 AM
#22
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Isn't this in a sticky somewhere, cause this is some old assed debate.
Stock LS1= about 350hp at the crank. No matter what the **** its in. No matter what the **** year it is. /End thread.
Stock LS1= about 350hp at the crank. No matter what the **** its in. No matter what the **** year it is. /End thread.
03-27-2009, 07:13 PM
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Un-tuned, it's hard to say. If the car has been tuned or assuming it's is running good with the correct AFR, those mods should be good for anywhere from 25 to 40hp over stock, theoretically.
Ultimately, without a dyno or some before and after track numbers, (mosly MPH), your pretty much just guessing.
Ultimately, without a dyno or some before and after track numbers, (mosly MPH), your pretty much just guessing.
03-28-2009, 06:54 AM
#28
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The actual LS1 changed every year it was in production 97-02.
Cams, ecus, injectors, intakes, rings and other small changes. Some years the changes were more dramatic then others but there were always changes.
To think that these differences don't show up in perfomance numbers is silly.
Engine builders like "GM" use engine dynos and measure at the crank, they don't strap cars down for their sales brochures numbers.
Your mag article is from "98" which has little bearing on an arguement about 02 stock numbers.
Product sales brochure numbers are always misleading alittle, but, based in facts.
I think some of you would be very supprised if you visted a manufacturing test facility.
Professional techs are lol or insulted by what passes for "the truth" in threads like this.
I would guess most are lol.
Cams, ecus, injectors, intakes, rings and other small changes. Some years the changes were more dramatic then others but there were always changes.
To think that these differences don't show up in perfomance numbers is silly.
Engine builders like "GM" use engine dynos and measure at the crank, they don't strap cars down for their sales brochures numbers.
Your mag article is from "98" which has little bearing on an arguement about 02 stock numbers.
Product sales brochure numbers are always misleading alittle, but, based in facts.
I think some of you would be very supprised if you visted a manufacturing test facility.
Professional techs are lol or insulted by what passes for "the truth" in threads like this.
I would guess most are lol.
03-28-2009, 11:26 AM
#32
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The article below from Motor Trend dynoed a '98 Z28 and '98 Formula M6 on a dynojet. They dynoed 282.5 and 286.9, respectively. This puts the flywheel hp at around 320 - 325... for the '98 - 00 F-body LS1s.
The article below from Car and Driver dynoed a '02 SS on a Mustang dyno and RWHP was 268.4. Based on 1.2 correction factor for drivetrain losses, this puts flywheel hp at 322 hp.
With that said, the Z28/Formula/TAs were underated by about 15hp and the SS/WS6 was probably pretty close with their factory rating of 320-325.
The article below from Car and Driver dynoed a '02 SS on a Mustang dyno and RWHP was 268.4. Based on 1.2 correction factor for drivetrain losses, this puts flywheel hp at 322 hp.
With that said, the Z28/Formula/TAs were underated by about 15hp and the SS/WS6 was probably pretty close with their factory rating of 320-325.
03-28-2009, 03:01 PM
#33
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https://ls1tech.com/forums/new-ls1-o...questions.html
03-29-2009, 03:14 AM
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I think it should be pointed out.
That if you took one 2002 factory LS1 engine block and put it on an engine dyno with a:
* stock Z28, Formula and Trans Am intake and exhaust it would dyno 310.
* then remove that intake and exhaust and put on the SS and WS6 stuff (again on the exact same engine) the numbers would be 325.
* then remove the SS and trans Am stuff and put on the SLP option parts (again on the exact same engine) the dyno would jump to 345.
* Finally do it on the same engine with the corvette intake and exshaust stuff including the ECU with stock program another increase would be recorded to 350 on the same engine block!
So on the exact same engine block, cam, injectors, intake manifold, ect.... changes in air intake, exhaust parts and ECU programming would give the published numbers.
This is exactly why we modify and tune cars and get better performance
Sorry my bad
That if you took one 2002 factory LS1 engine block and put it on an engine dyno with a:
* stock Z28, Formula and Trans Am intake and exhaust it would dyno 310.
* then remove that intake and exhaust and put on the SS and WS6 stuff (again on the exact same engine) the numbers would be 325.
* then remove the SS and trans Am stuff and put on the SLP option parts (again on the exact same engine) the dyno would jump to 345.
* Finally do it on the same engine with the corvette intake and exshaust stuff including the ECU with stock program another increase would be recorded to 350 on the same engine block!
So on the exact same engine block, cam, injectors, intake manifold, ect.... changes in air intake, exhaust parts and ECU programming would give the published numbers.
This is exactly why we modify and tune cars and get better performance
Sorry my bad
if you took one 2002 factory LS1 engine block and put it on an engine dyno with a:
* stock Z28, Formula and Trans Am intake and exhaust it would dyno 310.
* stock Z28, Formula and Trans Am intake and exhaust it would dyno 310.
* then remove that intake and exhaust and put on the SS and WS6 stuff (again on the exact same engine) the numbers would be 325.
(On a side note, I build exhaust systems for industrial diesel power generators for a living.
)
* then remove the SS and trans Am stuff and put on the SLP option parts (again on the exact same engine) the dyno would jump to 345.
(Holy smokin tires Batman!
No wonder SLP parts cost so much.)
* Finally do it on the same engine with the corvette intake and exshaust stuff including the ECU with stock program another increase would be recorded to 350 on the same engine block!
So you're saying that all those fancy gizmos on the vette gained 40 fwhp over the base f-fodies, 25 fwhp over the SS/WS6, but only 5 fwhp over the SLP SS, right? Are you by chance a marketing exec for SLP?
So, I guess what you're trying to say is that the f-bodies were all rated using rwhp, and the vette was rated using fwhp, is that right?
And how does that answer the OPs original question? What is the horsepower of a stock 2002 LS1?
The actual LS1 changed every year it was in production 97-02.
Cams, ecus, injectors, intakes, rings and other small changes. Some years the changes were more dramatic then others but there were always changes.
To think that these differences don't show up in perfomance numbers is silly.
Cams, ecus, injectors, intakes, rings and other small changes. Some years the changes were more dramatic then others but there were always changes.
To think that these differences don't show up in perfomance numbers is silly.
Engine builders like "GM" use engine dynos and measure at the crank, they don't strap cars down for their sales brochures numbers.
Your mag article is from "98" which has little bearing on an arguement about 02 stock numbers.
Product sales brochure numbers are always misleading alittle, but, based in facts.
Your mag article is from "98" which has little bearing on an arguement about 02 stock numbers.
Product sales brochure numbers are always misleading alittle, but, based in facts.
I think some of you would be very supprised if you visted a manufacturing test facility.
Professional techs are lol or insulted by what passes for "the truth" in threads like this.
I would guess most are lol.
I would guess most are lol.
It's called research. It means read and learn, in that order.
03-29-2009, 03:36 AM
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03-29-2009, 06:40 PM
#37
The article below from Motor Trend dynoed a '98 Z28 and '98 Formula M6 on a dynojet. They dynoed 282.5 and 286.9, respectively. This puts the flywheel hp at around 320 - 325... for the '98 - 00 F-body LS1s.
The article below from Car and Driver dynoed a '02 SS on a Mustang dyno and RWHP was 268.4. Based on 1.2 correction factor for drivetrain losses, this puts flywheel hp at 322 hp.
With that said, the Z28/Formula/TAs were underated by about 15hp and the SS/WS6 was probably pretty close with their factory rating of 320-325.
The article below from Car and Driver dynoed a '02 SS on a Mustang dyno and RWHP was 268.4. Based on 1.2 correction factor for drivetrain losses, this puts flywheel hp at 322 hp.
With that said, the Z28/Formula/TAs were underated by about 15hp and the SS/WS6 was probably pretty close with their factory rating of 320-325.
03-31-2009, 03:22 AM
#38
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Are you serious? Surely you jest. I was gonna leave this alone because I thought you were either trying to be a smartass, or baiting me, but I can't resist now. So let's break this down.
We're talkin fwhp here, right?
So, we picked up 15 fwhp by upgrading the catback. Since the SS and WS6 intake dynoed the same, we got nothing from the taller airbox because the SS uses the same airbox as the Z28/Formula/TA. That's a pretty good gain from a factory catback that has to adhere to federal sound emission standards.
(On a side note, I build exhaust systems for industrial diesel power generators for a living. )
OK, I'm not a Camaro guy, so I'm not really up on the SLP SS options and subject to error here. IIRC you got a different catback and a Blackwing lid and filter. So now we're up 35 fwhp over the base LS1 f-bodys, and 20 fwhp over the SS/WS6 with a lid, filter and catback.
(Holy smokin tires Batman! No wonder SLP parts cost so much.)
Ok, what's so much different about the vette intake and exhaust? Different airbox, MAF (?), throttle body, shorty headers and exhaust which still conforms to federal sound emission standards. I'm not sure about the tune. I was under the impression that they got the same factory tune, but I'll give it to ya anyway.
So you're saying that all those fancy gizmos on the vette gained 40 fwhp over the base f-fodies, 25 fwhp over the SS/WS6, but only 5 fwhp over the SLP SS, right? Are you by chance a marketing exec for SLP?
So, I guess what you're trying to say is that the f-bodies were all rated using rwhp, and the vette was rated using fwhp, is that right?
And how does that answer the OPs original question? What is the horsepower of a stock 2002 LS1?
The only "dramatic" changes that affected horsepower were the LS6 intake manifold and the cam from the 6.0 Vortech in '01, which netted 5 peak fwhp and a flatter torque curve. All other changes would have been negligable at best.
Fact is a GM engine builder posted a long time ago on this same board, on this same subject, that every LS1 dynoed at ~345-350 fwhp. I'd dig it up for you, but I just finished a 63 hr work week and I'm feeling a little bushed right now.
I spent 17 yrs working at Kawasaki Motors Mfg. Corp. Have you heard of them? The R&D dept was right next to me for a while, so I actually do know a thing or three about manufactuing test facilities. Those R&D guys are some sneeky bastards.
Personally, I'm kinda disturbed by the number of "professional techs" who don't know their exhaust port from their wrist pin. That's why no "professional" touches my vehicles until I've talked to them enough to determine that they know what the hell they're talking about.
It's called research. It means read and learn, in that order.
We're talkin fwhp here, right?
So, we picked up 15 fwhp by upgrading the catback. Since the SS and WS6 intake dynoed the same, we got nothing from the taller airbox because the SS uses the same airbox as the Z28/Formula/TA. That's a pretty good gain from a factory catback that has to adhere to federal sound emission standards.
(On a side note, I build exhaust systems for industrial diesel power generators for a living.
)OK, I'm not a Camaro guy, so I'm not really up on the SLP SS options and subject to error here. IIRC you got a different catback and a Blackwing lid and filter. So now we're up 35 fwhp over the base LS1 f-bodys, and 20 fwhp over the SS/WS6 with a lid, filter and catback.
(Holy smokin tires Batman!
No wonder SLP parts cost so much.)Ok, what's so much different about the vette intake and exhaust? Different airbox, MAF (?), throttle body, shorty headers and exhaust which still conforms to federal sound emission standards. I'm not sure about the tune. I was under the impression that they got the same factory tune, but I'll give it to ya anyway.
So you're saying that all those fancy gizmos on the vette gained 40 fwhp over the base f-fodies, 25 fwhp over the SS/WS6, but only 5 fwhp over the SLP SS, right? Are you by chance a marketing exec for SLP?
So, I guess what you're trying to say is that the f-bodies were all rated using rwhp, and the vette was rated using fwhp, is that right?
And how does that answer the OPs original question? What is the horsepower of a stock 2002 LS1?
The only "dramatic" changes that affected horsepower were the LS6 intake manifold and the cam from the 6.0 Vortech in '01, which netted 5 peak fwhp and a flatter torque curve. All other changes would have been negligable at best.
Fact is a GM engine builder posted a long time ago on this same board, on this same subject, that every LS1 dynoed at ~345-350 fwhp. I'd dig it up for you, but I just finished a 63 hr work week and I'm feeling a little bushed right now.
I spent 17 yrs working at Kawasaki Motors Mfg. Corp. Have you heard of them? The R&D dept was right next to me for a while, so I actually do know a thing or three about manufactuing test facilities. Those R&D guys are some sneeky bastards.
Personally, I'm kinda disturbed by the number of "professional techs" who don't know their exhaust port from their wrist pin. That's why no "professional" touches my vehicles until I've talked to them enough to determine that they know what the hell they're talking about.
It's called research. It means read and learn, in that order.
Ending with a cheers makes me think you might want to quit drinking too.
Here we go. I stand by post.
Here is one for you why do guys get a "bench mark dyno" before making changes?
Look, manufacturing techs don't engineer the motors. They hook them up and read the numbers. They don't have to know anything exept how to do their job.
As far as any research you need to do more. Lots and lots and lots more. Then discount all you think you know and check it again.
I will try and make this simple If you change part of a system the results will change. Some changes are smaller or larger then others.
Thus different plumbing makes the published numbers making the brochure numbers legal to print.
Guess what the Corvettes stock exhaust system is good for a few ponies more. Who would of thought that.
And yes that SLP option was good too, probably why 50% of the people on here first thing do a lid and cat back!
I swear some people move their tests to death valley in the winter. I would like to see every test done at 21 degrees C, 30 inches of mercury and 0% humdity. What is STP?
Please WS6addiction do not answer this (mine) post. I do not want to even read another of yours, but, I will and answer back as well.
I'm sure the OP doesn't read this anymore.
03-31-2009, 03:38 AM
#39
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what is wrong with this site??? sombody asks a legit question, sombody else answers and suddently every tom, dick and harry gets offended and starts throwing "facts" and "then why do you think.... this or that" questions..... grow up, everybody!
it should be prety simple, of you know somthing, post it, if you dont know... dont post! and mabe just mabe if someone posts somthing you didnt know.... learn from it, or dismiss it.... dont go postal..
my 2 cents...
it should be prety simple, of you know somthing, post it, if you dont know... dont post! and mabe just mabe if someone posts somthing you didnt know.... learn from it, or dismiss it.... dont go postal..
my 2 cents...
03-31-2009, 04:56 AM
#40
what is wrong with this site??? sombody asks a legit question, sombody else answers and suddently every tom, dick and harry gets offended and starts throwing "facts" and "then why do you think.... this or that" questions..... grow up, everybody!
it should be prety simple, of you know somthing, post it, if you dont know... dont post! and mabe just mabe if someone posts somthing you didnt know.... learn from it, or dismiss it.... dont go postal..
my 2 cents...
it should be prety simple, of you know somthing, post it, if you dont know... dont post! and mabe just mabe if someone posts somthing you didnt know.... learn from it, or dismiss it.... dont go postal..
my 2 cents...
Point is that we were ALL new to LS1's and cars in general at one point in time