which LSx car?
05-01-2011, 07:44 PM
#22
I'd take any GTO over the cobra.... Cobras aren't the greatest handlers, even worse then the goats, and the way you sit in the car....thats the main thing I couldn't get over, I had to be far up in the dash.
Easy to make power out of, but doing AutoX you won't really like that car....plus they feel cheap inside....really the best thing about a 03/04 cobra is the motor.
Easy to make power out of, but doing AutoX you won't really like that car....plus they feel cheap inside....really the best thing about a 03/04 cobra is the motor.
05-01-2011, 08:01 PM
#23
If you have the money to seriously consider a vette then thats the hands down winner in my book. Already comes lightweight with suspension and easier to work on under the hood. If you dont wanna spend that kinda money then a 4th gen f body for sure. Thats my ~~~~~~~~~~~/.02 lol
05-01-2011, 08:03 PM
#24
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No Summerwolf, I still think the Cobra would be a good alternative. I would actually consider one over an LS2 GTO now that I think about it. It's lighter, and bone stock it's going to put down a little more power than a GTO would. It's also extremely cheap and easy to get the Cobra's up around the 450rwhp mark.
And since handling is in the equation here, with a few suspension components, the Cobra's can handle nicely on the stock IRS, and we all know the straight line performance is there. I would much rather be out on the Road Course or Auto X in a Cobra than I would a GTO soley because of the weight differences between the two.
The interior/comfort subject is mainly all subjective so I won't get into all of that, nor does it really matter too much with these types of cars, they are meant for the purpose of performance, not luxury.
And since handling is in the equation here, with a few suspension components, the Cobra's can handle nicely on the stock IRS, and we all know the straight line performance is there. I would much rather be out on the Road Course or Auto X in a Cobra than I would a GTO soley because of the weight differences between the two.
The interior/comfort subject is mainly all subjective so I won't get into all of that, nor does it really matter too much with these types of cars, they are meant for the purpose of performance, not luxury.
05-01-2011, 08:10 PM
#25
WOW....
Cobra - Coupe: 3,665 lb
GTO -3725 lbs
There goes your lightweight theory....
The cobra has a 60/40 weight distribution where the goat has a 53/47
Both motors are cheap and easy to make power out of....obviously the cobra has forged internals and a blower so yeah that adds up...I agree, I said the good thing about the car is its motor.
Handling.... The GTO outhandles the cobra and with the weight distribution and coilovers being thrown into the equation you're pretty much guaranteeing on the GTO being a better car to toss around unless you've bumped the cobras output significantly. Even still most people on a road course would rather have an NA car that won't blower heat soak after a few runs.
The GTO is actually a "grand touring" car and has a fantastic interior, so yes it is worth mentioning. The cobra has a stock mustang interior that is cheap....the GTO is filled with leather and alcantra, one of the best interiors put out in any GM car.
Cobra - Coupe: 3,665 lb
GTO -3725 lbs
There goes your lightweight theory....
The cobra has a 60/40 weight distribution where the goat has a 53/47
Both motors are cheap and easy to make power out of....obviously the cobra has forged internals and a blower so yeah that adds up...I agree, I said the good thing about the car is its motor.
Handling.... The GTO outhandles the cobra and with the weight distribution and coilovers being thrown into the equation you're pretty much guaranteeing on the GTO being a better car to toss around unless you've bumped the cobras output significantly. Even still most people on a road course would rather have an NA car that won't blower heat soak after a few runs.
The GTO is actually a "grand touring" car and has a fantastic interior, so yes it is worth mentioning. The cobra has a stock mustang interior that is cheap....the GTO is filled with leather and alcantra, one of the best interiors put out in any GM car.
05-01-2011, 08:20 PM
#26
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c5 z06. i have had an 02 for about 6 months now, and it is absolutely incredible. and being a gm tech i get to drive the gto's a lot, i wouldnt bother with the 04, cause why get that if the 05-06 has the ls2, which is a beast of a motor.. the power is amazing, the interior comfort is great too.. but if your going to race, the z06 was built for that, and it is pretty comfortable as well.. but either way you'll be happy!
05-01-2011, 08:25 PM
#27
I hate that statement.... "Why bother with the 04" Seriously...its the same car, same platform, the LSX in any form can make power and he said he is going to modify it, so get the car with the best deal. The LS2 and LS1 GTOs run with 2-3 tenths of each other stock for stock at the drag strip so the power is definitely not that "amazing" from the factory.
05-01-2011, 08:33 PM
#28
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WOW....
Cobra - Coupe: 3,665 lb
GTO -3725 lbs
There goes your lightweight theory....
The cobra has a 60/40 weight distribution where the goat has a 53/47
Both motors are cheap and easy to make power out of....obviously the cobra has forged internals and a blower so yeah that adds up...I agree, I said the good thing about the car is its motor.
Handling.... The GTO outhandles the cobra and with the weight distribution and coilovers being thrown into the equation you're pretty much guaranteeing on the GTO being a better car to toss around unless you've bumped the cobras output significantly. Even still most people on a road course would rather have an NA car that won't blower heat soak after a few runs.
The GTO is actually a "grand touring" car and has a fantastic interior, so yes it is worth mentioning. The cobra has a stock mustang interior that is cheap....the GTO is filled with leather and alcantra, one of the best interiors put out in any GM car.
Cobra - Coupe: 3,665 lb
GTO -3725 lbs
There goes your lightweight theory....
The cobra has a 60/40 weight distribution where the goat has a 53/47
Both motors are cheap and easy to make power out of....obviously the cobra has forged internals and a blower so yeah that adds up...I agree, I said the good thing about the car is its motor.
Handling.... The GTO outhandles the cobra and with the weight distribution and coilovers being thrown into the equation you're pretty much guaranteeing on the GTO being a better car to toss around unless you've bumped the cobras output significantly. Even still most people on a road course would rather have an NA car that won't blower heat soak after a few runs.
The GTO is actually a "grand touring" car and has a fantastic interior, so yes it is worth mentioning. The cobra has a stock mustang interior that is cheap....the GTO is filled with leather and alcantra, one of the best interiors put out in any GM car.
I have to also say, calling a GTO a "grand touring" car is a pretty big stretch
05-01-2011, 08:33 PM
#29
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I hate that statement.... "Why bother with the 04" Seriously...its the same car, same platform, the LSX in any form can make power and he said he is going to modify it, so get the car with the best deal. The LS2 and LS1 GTOs run with 2-3 tenths of each other stock for stock at the drag strip so the power is definitely not that "amazing" from the factory.
Not sure why so many people underrate the LS1 GTO's.
05-01-2011, 08:42 PM
#30
Until I see some valid proof that a bone stock LS2 GTO will handle better than a Cobra, I will stick by what I said, I still personally believe a Cobra would serve one better on an Auto X/Road Course than a GTO would. I also never said either cars were light, but I have to admit, I did think that the Cobra had a slightly bigger weight advantage over the GTO.
I have to also say, calling a GTO a "grand touring" car is a pretty big stretch
I have to also say, calling a GTO a "grand touring" car is a pretty big stretch
Please explain why a car with an iron block and a large heatsoaking blower would serve better on a road course or autoX course then a car with an aluminum block and a better weight distribution?
They apparently both do about .85 on the skidpad in stock form, but the GTO is on all season 245/40/17 BFGs and the Cobra came with 275 Goodyear Eagle F1s, so read in to that what you will, lol.
Last edited by Summerwolf; 05-01-2011 at 08:54 PM.
05-01-2011, 08:52 PM
#32
Well, good luck. 06 BOMs are about the most expensive ones.... if you're limiting yourself to brazen thats the year to do it, but each year had specific rare colors that look good as well. Brazen, Barbados, and Cosmos seem to be the most expensive/hardest colors to get people to part with.
I still say C5Z....they're rated at 405 HP and have less weight with more tire.... its a no brainer here.
I still say C5Z....they're rated at 405 HP and have less weight with more tire.... its a no brainer here.
05-01-2011, 08:57 PM
#33
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Why do you say calling the GTO a grand touring car is a stretch?? Thats the whole purpose of the car and the first two words the "GT" stand for in "GTO".
Please explain why a car with an iron block and a large heatsoaking blower would serve better on a road course or autoX course then a car with an aluminum block and a better weight distribution?
They apparently both do about .85 on the skidpad in stock form, but the GTO is on all season 245/40/17 BFGs and the Cobra came with 275 inch Goodyear Eagle F1s, so read in to that what you will, lol.
Please explain why a car with an iron block and a large heatsoaking blower would serve better on a road course or autoX course then a car with an aluminum block and a better weight distribution?
They apparently both do about .85 on the skidpad in stock form, but the GTO is on all season 245/40/17 BFGs and the Cobra came with 275 inch Goodyear Eagle F1s, so read in to that what you will, lol.
But, whatever man, I could debate on and on about this, but in the end, both are nice cars with potential to do all kinds of stuff. I just personally prefer one over the other
05-01-2011, 09:06 PM
#35
Grand tourer- "Grand tourers differ from standard two-seat sports cars in typically being engineered as larger, and heavier, while emphasizing comfort over straight-out performance or spartan accommodations. Historically, most GTs have been front-engined with rear-wheel drive, which creates more space for the cabin than mid-mounted engine layouts. Softer suspensions, greater storage, and more luxurious appointments add to their driving appeal. "
Even my insurance counts it as a "touring" vehicle....saves money, lol.
http://www.kbb.com/used-cars/pontiac...l-value/review
Even my insurance counts it as a "touring" vehicle....saves money, lol.
http://www.kbb.com/used-cars/pontiac...l-value/review
05-01-2011, 09:21 PM
#36
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Hey guys.
Looking at getting a new car. Really want a V8 RWD and manual. I have no real preference to import/euro/domestic. But at the moment LS1/2 t-56 powered cars are a much better deal. Or so it appears.
I've looked into STi/Evo/S2000, E46 M3, but the cost of these cars, plus maintaining them, and aftermarket mods ... add up.
I've looked at LS1 swapped S14's and RX-7 FD"s - and cost of nice examples is as much as nice factory LS powered car.
I know that cars with these engines and transmissions are Camaro SS, WS6, GTO, Corvette, Z06.
I want to be able to take this car to autocross, potential track day. Mostly, just a NICE weekend cruiser/fun car.
Looking at getting a new car. Really want a V8 RWD and manual. I have no real preference to import/euro/domestic. But at the moment LS1/2 t-56 powered cars are a much better deal. Or so it appears.
I've looked into STi/Evo/S2000, E46 M3, but the cost of these cars, plus maintaining them, and aftermarket mods ... add up.
I've looked at LS1 swapped S14's and RX-7 FD"s - and cost of nice examples is as much as nice factory LS powered car.
I know that cars with these engines and transmissions are Camaro SS, WS6, GTO, Corvette, Z06.
I want to be able to take this car to autocross, potential track day. Mostly, just a NICE weekend cruiser/fun car.
A Vette is going to be a more expensive car, but obviously have much more potential, already has great suspension/brakes, weight balance and is lighter.
Now, my first "mods" would be coilovers and nice set of tires. So should I bother with Z06, or stay with a plain Corvette? Not interested in "special" packages of Z06. Same mods would apply to the GTO.
05-02-2011, 05:42 AM
#37
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Roman,
It all depends on where you want to spend your hard earned money. Here is my experience with cars that I've owned, and a car I forgot about that I will mention.
2000 Trans Am Firehawk A4: Awesome car! It actually handled really well for a stock 3600 lbs car. It was fun to play with in the corners, but ended up being a better straight line car.
2002 Trans Am WS6 M6: Awesome car! It didn't handle as well as the Firehawk, but was a great straight line car.
2000 Corvette FRC M6: This is the one I forgot about! It handles just about the same as the ZO6! Basically, a detuned ZO6. And they can be had for much less! A great handling car in stock form for autocross, etc.
2002 Corvette ZO6: This is the crown jewel for daily, autocross, looks, etc! I really do miss mine. I love my '08 ZO6, and it is a definite upgrade to the C5Z, but amazingly, they handle very similar!
2004 Mystichrome Cobra: This is definitely not a autocross car. It can be modded to be a beast, but is very quirky. The seating position is sooo weird. It was a fun car to own, but much better for straight line.
2005 GTO: This one I actually didn't owned. Just watched over it for a little bit. It was a very nice car, so I'm not knocking it, but it didn't hold a candle to the Z. It does handle better than the F-bodies though. They are unique, but the looks are just too outdated to me.
Honorable mention in case you need more room:
2003 Ford Lightning: What a fun truck to own! It handled great for a truck and was quite quick. But, it was a gas guzzler back then, and would be horrible now with gas prices. :\
2007 Chevrolet Trailblazer SS: Simply a badass SUV. It handled pretty well for a 4700 SUV and was damn quick! I actually miss this vehicle quite a bit.
There is a lot of choices out there. If you haven't test driven all of the vehicles you are thinking about, that should be the first place to start. We can advise you all day, but until you have some seat time, you will never really know what you want.
It all depends on where you want to spend your hard earned money. Here is my experience with cars that I've owned, and a car I forgot about that I will mention.
2000 Trans Am Firehawk A4: Awesome car! It actually handled really well for a stock 3600 lbs car. It was fun to play with in the corners, but ended up being a better straight line car.
2002 Trans Am WS6 M6: Awesome car! It didn't handle as well as the Firehawk, but was a great straight line car.
2000 Corvette FRC M6: This is the one I forgot about! It handles just about the same as the ZO6! Basically, a detuned ZO6. And they can be had for much less! A great handling car in stock form for autocross, etc.
2002 Corvette ZO6: This is the crown jewel for daily, autocross, looks, etc! I really do miss mine. I love my '08 ZO6, and it is a definite upgrade to the C5Z, but amazingly, they handle very similar!
2004 Mystichrome Cobra: This is definitely not a autocross car. It can be modded to be a beast, but is very quirky. The seating position is sooo weird. It was a fun car to own, but much better for straight line.
2005 GTO: This one I actually didn't owned. Just watched over it for a little bit. It was a very nice car, so I'm not knocking it, but it didn't hold a candle to the Z. It does handle better than the F-bodies though. They are unique, but the looks are just too outdated to me.
Honorable mention in case you need more room:
2003 Ford Lightning: What a fun truck to own! It handled great for a truck and was quite quick. But, it was a gas guzzler back then, and would be horrible now with gas prices. :\
2007 Chevrolet Trailblazer SS: Simply a badass SUV. It handled pretty well for a 4700 SUV and was damn quick! I actually miss this vehicle quite a bit.
There is a lot of choices out there. If you haven't test driven all of the vehicles you are thinking about, that should be the first place to start. We can advise you all day, but until you have some seat time, you will never really know what you want.
05-02-2011, 05:07 PM
#38
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that sounds good
I'm only interested in getting an idea what to shoot for at the moment
the only f-body I've been in was a '96 Firebird V6 ... and it was auto ... and I wasn't even driving
also, there really aren't that many GTO's or Corvettes that I could actually drive to get a feel for them; I mean, maybe one of the local Corvette owners could let me drive theirs, but I don't think there are any Z06's around; hardly any '05-06 GTO's around period
I'm in Upstate NY
also, prices on these things are HIGH, so I'm looking at cars from "southern" states, a bit cheaper, and a lot of them have "accident" with Carfax
I'm also not extremely picky about anything, the autocross stuff is going to be rare, so will be track days, I doubt I will take it to the strip - but if/when I do, I want to be able to have some fun and not think about "what if's"
going to look around some more
is there a huge difference between a plain Corvette and Z06? if stickies and coils added to the plain one?
just looking for some kind of general direction, I'm really just looking for a great all arounder
I'm only interested in getting an idea what to shoot for at the moment
the only f-body I've been in was a '96 Firebird V6 ... and it was auto ... and I wasn't even driving
also, there really aren't that many GTO's or Corvettes that I could actually drive to get a feel for them; I mean, maybe one of the local Corvette owners could let me drive theirs, but I don't think there are any Z06's around; hardly any '05-06 GTO's around period
I'm in Upstate NY
also, prices on these things are HIGH, so I'm looking at cars from "southern" states, a bit cheaper, and a lot of them have "accident" with Carfax
I'm also not extremely picky about anything, the autocross stuff is going to be rare, so will be track days, I doubt I will take it to the strip - but if/when I do, I want to be able to have some fun and not think about "what if's"
going to look around some more
is there a huge difference between a plain Corvette and Z06? if stickies and coils added to the plain one?
just looking for some kind of general direction, I'm really just looking for a great all arounder
05-03-2011, 10:38 AM
#39
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Somewhat common or not, a Vette is still a really nice car. No matter how many of them I see, a Vette ALWAYS catches my eye and turns my head.
As far as F-Bodies, production number aside, I feel like the WS6 T/A is the most common, followed by the SS's. It seems that I see them everywhere. Now at the track or club meets I see more Camaro's, but on a daily basis more WS6's.
I'm sure the most common is the Z28, but I really don't notice them unless they're modded, they seem to blend in very well. Then the Formula and the Firehawks and other special editions are the rarest.
To the OP, I'd go C5Z all the way. Even if it costs more than the GTO, you'll be dollars ahead since the car your starting with is a much better handler. And who cares if you see alot of them. There's a reason for that...they're awesome!!
As far as F-Bodies, production number aside, I feel like the WS6 T/A is the most common, followed by the SS's. It seems that I see them everywhere. Now at the track or club meets I see more Camaro's, but on a daily basis more WS6's.
I'm sure the most common is the Z28, but I really don't notice them unless they're modded, they seem to blend in very well. Then the Formula and the Firehawks and other special editions are the rarest.
To the OP, I'd go C5Z all the way. Even if it costs more than the GTO, you'll be dollars ahead since the car your starting with is a much better handler. And who cares if you see alot of them. There's a reason for that...they're awesome!!
I agree with you 100%. The Corvette is just better, nicer, a step up you could say. Worth the extra money, everything like that. Great car. I can't say enough great things about mine. I'm seeing some good prices for them out there as well (helping someone look).
05-03-2011, 10:48 AM
#40
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01Z is still an LS1, 02 is LS6. All C5s are LS1. Think of the Z06 as the "race car" version. Different suspension, wheels, not a hatch, I'm sure all of this has been mentioned and these guys can help you with the more tech stuff.
I'm sure if you are shopping you can see there is not always a price different between the two cars (this is more my forte). A Z06 is not always more than C5. Don't ask me why. That kind of sense doesn't apply here. I guess it's just how they are. Also, an 01Z06 is not always cheaper than 02-04 Z06's. This being said, don't expect to get away paying less for an FRC (fixed roof coupe - looks of a Z06 before there was a Z06).