RevGTO

iTrader: (12)

I was getting ready to pull away from the liquor store yesterday in my DD silver Formula, when I guy came out of the store with enthusiastic double thumbs up about my car.

Made me think about a few things:
1. How few of these are on the road anymore. It's normal to me, but otherwise they're not often seen.
2. My car is as old now as my 69 GTO was when I was driving it in 1989-90.
3. Would a 4th gen Camaro get as much love as my Firebird does? There may be a "halo effect" from the WS6 cars that carries over to more modest Firebirds that the Camaro doesn't get.

With all that in mind, here's my take on the several generations and which and why are more popular:

1st Gen - Camaro hands down. This is not even discussable.
2nd Gen - Firebird, specifically Trans Am. From the 70-72 white/blue cars, through the 73-74 Super Dutys, to the Smokey and the Bandit black and gold with screaming eagles, there's no question that Pontiac owned this generation.
3rd Gen - Camaro. Although some of the later Formulas were fairly popular, once Pontiac had a Chevy engine, it was clear that it had lost its way.
4th Gen - Firebird. The 98 & up WS6 and some of its advertising once again captured the public imagination. The halo effect bestowed its bounty on all Firebirds. Even my son's V6 cars would get challenged on the road because guys thought they were fast. The Camaro SS was every bit as nice, but just didn't have the swag of the WS6.

What do you think?

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

I agree with your summary of the generations above, all very accurate IMO.

There is virtually no love for the 4th gen Camaro. I was literally in shock the two times last summer when someone stopped me to talk about my Z28. It's as nice as any road-driven 4th gen Camaro can be; 18k miles, consistent 97-98 point show car, never leaves the garage without being fully detailed and ready for close inspection....and yet, it's invisible to the average passive enthusiast. I'm used to all the attention I get with my old Nova, in fact I don't even bother to pull into a gas station unless I have at least 30 minutes to spare because someone always pulls up to talk, but with the Camaro that sort of thing almost never happens. Conversely, lots of folks seem to post stories about all the attention their Pontiac F-bodies get, especially the WS6 cars. This is also reflected in the price gap between otherwise comparable examples of each brand.

I'm an odd ball as I specifically sold my '00 WS6 to get back into a Camaro many years ago. A 4th gen Z28 was the first brand new car I ever bought, so those will always be more special to me personally, and I've also concluded that I prefer the cleaner styling of Camaro (as well as Formula) - though I do understand, from an objective perspective, why so many folks are drawn to the outrageous look of a WS6 Trans Am (I guess I felt similar when I was ~20 years younger, which is why I bought one in the first place). And I think a lot of folks feel that having a discontinued brand and nameplate makes the Pontiac F-body more special, more exclusive, etc. (which doesn't make any difference to me, but I know it's a draw for some at least).

NC01TA

I also agree with your assessment. The numerous car shows I attend also confirm how we feel. The first generation Camaros are probably #1 of ALL the years.
The 'thumbs up' I get on so many occasions with my '01 Trans Am these days is almost routine now. Is it really 20 years old?

lees02WS6

iTrader: (5)

I get the 1st gen appeal, particularly the 69. The shape, and the name are iconic.

It’s not hard to see why the 4th gen Camaro doesn’t get any love. It has the same problem, in my eyes, that the Corvette has. GM makes too many Camaros, and there is always a newer, better one, coming next year.

A lot of people at a certain age, when the 4th gen Firebird was new, didn’t warm to the over-the-top appearance of the Trans Am. They preferred the much tamer appearance of the Camaro, which extends to the SS. Even the polarizing front end of the 98-02 Camaro was fine relative to the “garish” Trans Am. It’s a bit ironic that the same things that made the Camaro more appealing then also undercut it now.

The firebird doesn’t have that problem. GM made the Firebird in, what, half the numbers? Lots of cars have been discontinued, but the Trans Am has a legendary name, and its looks stands out. That said, it’s still a plastic f-body. What gives?

This is all my personal speculation, I bet some of this is down to Gen Xers, who unlike their older, more looks-conservative counter parts, liked the Trans Am but couldn’t get one. I put that in several categories.

The younger Gen Xers of the time could not afford the price. Then there are the slightly older Gen Xers, who were having kids, and the wife said no. The next category, the ones who already had one, and the wife said get rid of it.

I doubt very much the iGen crew, that comes up asking about the car now, were impressed upon by the likes of The Rockford Files, Smokey and the Bandit or Knight Rider. Here, again, old Gen Xer dad’s influence might be in play.

I have definitely experienced what you guys are talking about. It’s always surprising, and it happens nearly every time I take the car out.

The look that off-put so many of the buyers at that time, aren’t buyers today. Instead, it’s those would-be buyers then, that want it now. Trouble is a good many of the ones out there were ridden hard and put back wet. Since fewer built, you have to look to find a good one.

98ws6blk

I agree with much of what previous guys have said. I was in highschool when the LS1 4th Gens were being sold. The Camaros seemed to be everywhere and in reality the SS didn't look much different than a V6 to the average person. However, the Firebirds were much less common and it was pretty obvious which ones were Trans Ams and the WS6 looked like some cross between Dracula, Darth Vader, and a dragon...if you ever saw one.

As odd as it may seem, I think headlights really "date" a car relative to what era it is from. The Firebird's hidden headlights help it not seem as old as it actually is.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

I agree with the concept, but I actually draw a different conclusion in this case. The pop-up/hidden headlamp arrangement actually makes the car seem older to me, since this is not really a thing you see in the modern era. Additionally, I think the '98-'02 Firebird/TA was the last domestic passenger car to use sealed beam headlights (granted, the bulb type isn't really apparent unless the doors are up in the daytime). The only other domestic vehicle that I can recall still using this type of bulb (albeit a different size) after 2002 were cargo vans.

But this isn't necessarily a bad thing in relation to enthusiasm regarding the car. As anyone with an original-era muscle car, or similarly old antique/classic, will tell you - old cars get LOTS of attention from passive enthusiasts and even just average motorists on the road (nostalgia, a break in the monotony, etc.)

Finkledbody

You're observation is spot on, since the catfish Camaro was released it hasn't received much of any love. For what reason though is anyone's guess. I remember 2005-2014 anytime I fueled up my firebird or went to a car meet I would get endless attention; "oh nice T/A" even though it was a V6. I'd get high fives, thumbs up, people revving their engines offering to race. I could go back to the same gas station 2 minutes later with my Z28 Camaro to race and no one would even notice it. No compliments, no thumbs up. Nothing.

Fast forward a few years when it came time to reacquire a 4th gen I made sure to get a Camaro as to not draw a crowd.

MonmouthCtyLS7

iTrader: (6)

Down here in South Florida, I see 5th and 6th gens often but hardly ever see 4th Gens anymore. 1st Gens are probably the most sought after, and imo pretty badass when there done right and clean.

440_Stroker

I'm a fan of both and that goes for any year/generation. I do think that some years one looked better than the other but being it is subjective my opinion means very little to others.

I truly believe for some they liked the Camaro over the Firebird or the other way around more so because of engines. Some folks I know prefer Pontiac over Chevy in terms of engines so for them the Firebird makes sense. After the platforms started sharing engines of the "GM Corporate", Chevrolet, it comes down to styling. Both have years where I think one looks better than the other and then the next year it flips.

Many think that it was the 3rd gen where Pontiac used a Chevy engine but that isn't the case. Multiple years of the 2nd gen used the SBC as an option.

speedfreak440

iTrader: (9)

I agree with the previous sentiments, for me personally ever since I first saw a 4th gen WS6 car I was in love but I was a sophomore or junior in high school and absolutely couldn't afford one, funny thing is there were 2 in my small hometown and I used to beat the crap out of them in my somewhat ratty but fast 73 Cuda with a built 440/727.... I still wanted a WS6, finally got one a few years later maybe 05 or 06, had it for a couple years then got an itch and went through a bunch of stuff: 03 Cobra, C6 Vette, some other older stuff but out of all those cars my overall favorite was the WS6 bird so about 2 years ago I got another one, built pretty much to perfection for my own personal taste and never plan to get rid of it...... On the topic of TA vs Camaro I will say that Ive always really liked the styling of the 93-97 camaros, the 98+ never did it for me but the early 4th gen camaro's looked great in my opinion.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

A lot of folks seem to feel this way; I've known many over the years who prefer the earlier front clip on 4th gen Camaro. Personally, I like both but I actually prefer the '98+ version due to the composite headlights being better suited to the "round" body lines of a 4th gen IMO. I always felt that the rectangular headlights of the earlier version were a bit sharp/harsh for the otherwise bubble-ish body of a 4th gen - but I like the continuity of heritage from the 3rd gens (not to mention the fact that the older glass headlights don't get hazy and yellow!), so I still appreciate the earlier version as well.

LE35thSS

iTrader: (1)

I've always been a camaro guy so naturally it's what I like the most but it seems the appeal to the trans am is the hood and hi-rise spoiler imo.

jlangley

iTrader: (8)

I always think of the ws6 as a girl in a fancy outfit hair done up, all the make up.
While the camaro is more blue jeans, crop top, no makeup, natural hair.

Tuskyz28

01CamaroSSTx

iTrader: (3)

From the 60's up I absolutely have an admiration for all of them. The 4th Gen was officially "The End " of the Pontiac Trans-AM and that's too bad. Yeah they take a Camaro and turn it into a Trans Am and they look awesome but they're still Camaros.

Kingc8r

iTrader: (21)

I guess it would be location specific, I've had more people talk to me about my Camaro vs my Firehawk when out driving them. Was look good but I prefer the subtleness of the Formula. IMHO its hard to beat a CME equipped SS.

I wish the Birds had better hood options to run a better intake, most of the hoods available look off to me whereas the Sunoco fits the Camaro's body lines in a fantastic way. I feel most people prefer Birds since they're more rare and a little more exotic looking.

Overall I agree with your opinion

RedXray

I've never seen one of those except for pics and videos online. I agree they look pretty dam nice especially the white/gold Hurst Edition that are built in Florida. Very very expensive T/A clones!

How about a Silverado T/A Bandit Edition

RevGTO

iTrader: (12)

There's a guy here locally who has done up a Jeep the same way. Crazy. The T/A mystique lives on!

gradymayhem

Didn’t realize so many of my thoughts/opinions were so common. I agree with the original assessment for the most part.

Just in looks, I see a huge divide between early and late years of each generation. The pontiacs always started out the lesser car and grew into themselves IMO. Early 2nd gen birds looked pretty lackluster, especially next to the camaros. I feel like split bumpers get a lot more love than white/blue cars. But by ‘80, they had become far and away the iconic car of the era. They solidified their own trademark graphic that would come to identify an entire “brand” even to car casuals who knew nothing about engine or transmission options. What other car has ever done that?

Copy and paste for the 4th gen cars, especially the iconic WS6s.

Copy and paste for the 3rd gen cars, with the later T/As becoming only a little less iconic than the Iroc itself.

I’ve always been partial to camaros personally, especially late third and early fourth gen camaros. But Pontiac was never afraid to really push the envelope with some of their designs and I respect the hell out of that.

And the girl analogy is definitely spot on.

Spink

iTrader: (1)

I can't speak on the Pontiacs but my 4th Gen Z28 gets attention almost everywhere I go. It's silver and still has the original stock 16in chrome snowflake wheels. lol. But people sure seem to like it more and more as time goes by. My dad has a c7 zo6 and even he comments a lot about how much he likes it, says I'd be crazy to ever sell it. The comment I always get almost without fail is "damn that thing is clean, and I'm pretty sure they are speaking more to the sleek lines of the car and just how the chrome wheels, clear corners, silver paint, and black roof all really seem to flow together cleanly more than it actually being clean. It's got 160K on it and it's just stock appearing except for clear corners and !molding and lowered a tad bit with the Konis and heater hose.

The really crazy thing is that this girl I've known my whole life, whose dad owns a Viper, a c6 z06, an Escalade, and a trackhawk, always says if I ever decide to sell it to make sure I call him first! Anytime he hears she's going somewhere where I'll be he makes her promise to tell me that he still wants the car and not to forget to call him first if I ever decide to part with it which just really amazes the **** out of me me everytime I hear it. He even came to this picnic we were at on the 4th with his Viper and everybody is looking at his Viper and he's literally there just to see my Camaro and make sure I'm keeping it nice for him for when I finally decide to sell it to him. He won't trade any of his cars for it though. I told him I'd trade it for the z06 just to see what he'd say and I swear it sure seemed like he actually considerd it for a second but I really don't know if I would make that trade if it came down to it.

Part of the thing with the 4th gen Camaros is most the ones I do still see on the road are raggedy V6's which doesn't seem to be the case for the TA's and Formulas, at least around here...